I need some advice

[KGT1200]

This morning at 8:00 I have to fire this gal. I have so far set her up like a bowling pin EXACTLY like HR has had me play the game; verbal warning(s) with plan to improve, written warnings using specifics on what's wrong and improvement. Now after the last series of screw up's, I have to put the hammer down, and I hate it!

So this gal comes in at 8:00. Last week, she signed a document indicating she wants to step down from her F/T position, and go to part time, and since I have no part time, she in effect has resigned.

Hows should I handle it, give her a choice to resign based on this, or out right state the conversation of "I have to let you go"?

I'm not good at this stuff, hate to do it, and have only done this two times in my life. HR prepped a check so it's give me the keys, clean out your desk, good by.

I am really fretting this this morning, and need some advice by 8:00 central time. Anybody out there?

[afhrnfa1]

:scratch :dunno :bolt or do the right thing.
If she has been unable to do the job full time what makes her think she can do the job part time. You say that you do not have any part time positions. So let her go. I know it is not easy to fire someone, but!

[130253]

I always hated being the hatchet man. Been there done that many times, but it still sucks and there is not an easy way to do the deed if you have any kind of a heart. But I have found the best way to let someone go is to not beat around the bush and drag it on. In your situation, I suppose you could give her the option to resign, perhaps for her own dignity. Be the good guy, show sympathy, but do your job.

[tessler]

Red, in agreement with points in the first two responses, simply sit her down and explain the situation. Be clear and up-front. Don't worry; you (appear to) have the full support of your HR department and all of the preparatory steps have been taken, so the separation should go smoothly for both parties.

Best of luck.

[Oldhway]

Red, it seems like everyones on the same track. recently fired a guy who I really liked as a person. it sucked.

Keep it professional. It's all about the job and how it was done and not at all about the person as an individual. Don't let her make it personal. Be respectful but absolutely firm, and get it done.

Good luck, this is one of the worst parts of any job.

[SheRidesABeemer]

I've been on the receiving side about a million times. Go with clear and up front. It is very rare that I ever hear that. As a person getting canned , I don't really want a "direction of the company has changed" speech. I'd rather hear: " You haven't been able to be successful in this position and we are letting you go.".

What ever you do don't follow that with a back tracking apology for doing your job. It only confuses things. You could follow it with a choice - "would you like to clean out your personal belonging now, or would it be better to come back after hours (if that is a choice) . We will pay you 2 weeks severance and we will not contest it if you file for unemployment". (what ever your case may be).

An HR representative should be willing (required?) to sit with you during this interview.

[Belquar]

I am sorry. It is not going to work out. We have to let you go. I will be more than happy to give you a reference if you need one.

I need your keys and you can clean out your desk.

Lasts only a few minutes. Then they are gone and you can move about your day.

We just did it at my work. Only we screwed up and forgot to get the company card from the girl. I had to go to her house and get it. That was a bit awkward.

Good luck.

[The_Veg]

I agree with having an HR rep.

I too have been on the receiveing end more times than I'd care to remember. I applaud you for having to break the news at the beginning of the day. When I've been fired a five o'clcock, I've always felt sorta cheated.

This does hit a bit close to home though as just about half an hour ago I got upset with a guy I supervise, who made a personal decision that has thrown off our entire day (with effects that could last beyond sunset)- and the fact that he commutes in a company vehicle is a strong factor in the situation. I hate having to be hardass but a lecture was required.

I've never had to be the one to do the actual firing, although I have been involved/consulted in the decision a couple of times. I side with the consensus here about doing it compassionately and honestly.

Chin up Red; it could be worse.

[rinty]

I had to terminate my accountant a few years ago and dreaded telling him for many months. Just before it happened, I read an article in the paper about how to terminate a personal relationship, which suggested emphasizing the positive aspects of the person and the relationship, along with the reasons for ending it.

I did that and it worked well.

Before doing difficult presentations, I also rehearse what I am going to say in my head a number of times. In the event, you never have to follow the script exactly.

Rinty

[kbasa]

I've fired a whole bunch of folks.

Just net it out.

[Visian]

if i was good at firing people, i would be on my world motorcycle tour right now with a permanent nest egg in the bank.

not firing people earned me nothing in the long run.

just do it, and be as nice as possible.

ian

[Mongo]

I have done this many times. I agree with the above except from an unemployment standpoint it is always better if the employee resigns. I do not give references to someone I terminate but I will if they resign. Give them the option, get the resignation in writing.

As far as letting someone go for cause.

"You have not met the objectives you and I agreed to in our previous meetings. It is apparent that this job is not a good fit for you. I am going to have to let you go effective immediately."

Now laying people off is what really sucks. I had to do that last week.

[kbasa]

Some tips:

Don't get into an argument with them about their last transgression.
They're going to do some venting, so hang on and let them go.
If you don't let them vent, they'll probably go down to the department of unemployment and vent there, which means you get to go to an unemployment hearing.
Do it first thing in the morning. I liked Mondays. It allowed them to start looking for a job immediately instead of stewing about it all weekend.
Never be disrespectful, even though you might have the desire to call them an idiot.
Always have a witness in the room when you terminate them.
Try to get them to sign a letter acknowledging their termination.
Have HR get you their termination papers ahead of time.
Don't forget keys, access cards, computer access codes and keypad codes will need to be collected or changed.
Treat them with the utmost respect in front of the departed's former peers. They talk.

[ultracyclist]

I have fired people.
I have been fired.

Many good points from others thus far. The most important thing: Keep it short, concise, wish the person well in future endevours.

[Mongo]

Some tips:

Don't get into an argument with them about their last transgression.
They're going to do some venting, so hang on and let them go.
If you don't let them vent, they'll probably go down to the department of unemployment and vent there, which means you get to go to an unemployment hearing.
Do it first thing in the morning. I liked Mondays. It allowed them to start looking for a job immediately instead of stewing about it all weekend.
Never be disrespectful, even though you might have the desire to call them an idiot.
Always have a witness in the room when you terminate them.
Try to get them to sign a letter acknowledging their termination.
Have HR get you their termination papers ahead of time.
Don't forget keys, access cards, computer access codes and keypad codes will need to be collected or changed.
Treat them with the utmost respect in front of the departed's former peers. They talk.

All good.

It is important to have someone else as a witness (and a deterrent from things getting physical). Be very respectful! Be a dispassionate professional. That is real hard to do especially if the employee was a total a$$ and gets very emotional. Your only response should be " I can appreciate that this is difficult for you, it was a difficult decision to make. It is not going to change."

Of course this is already a done deal at this point.....

[Rapid_Roy]

Tell us how it went Red, we're here for ya Bro.

[SheRidesABeemer]

Ok, time for amusing anecdotes...

I'd been contracting for a 3rd party vendor for a couple of years, I didn't go into the office much. I got a call one day from HR & my boss (bad sign). The HR lady told me that they "where giving me the opportunity to explore the world of self employment". I kid you not...

I have been layed off so many times, I get a knot in my stomach any time any boss asks me into his/her office.

Speaking of which...I'm outta work at the end of the week. Because, well, contracts are not worth the paper they are written on these days. :dunno

[SIBUD]

I know it's all ready over and hope it went well.

Most employees are not surprised when they are fired. In fact, most wonder what took so long.

You have a great HR person to coach you on the documentation necessary so a tip of the helmet to them.

[From MARS]

Ok, time for amusing anecdotes...

I'd been contracting for a 3rd party vendor for a couple of years, I didn't go into the office much. I got a call one day from HR & my boss (bad sign). The HR lady told me that they "where giving me the opportunity to explore the world of self employment". I kid you not...

I have been layed off so many times, I get a knot in my stomach any time any boss asks me into his/her office.

Speaking of which...I'm outta work at the end of the week. Because, well, contracts are not worth the paper they are written on these days. :dunno

Welcome to the world of self-employment! Now, go explore.:bolt

Back in '83, I got caught in the downward spiral of the oil industry in Texas. As one job would fizzle, I'd go to another, and then another. This went on for 6-8 months before I said to heck with this and started my own business.

Now, the biggest problem is not having someone to tell me to "go home". This came about because I knew nobody could beat my quality or my price because I was willing to do whatever it took to get and keep customers. In the beginning, some folks got some fantastic work for very little money. Over the years, what I do has changed, but how I do it hasn't. I just ask myself, " Would I be happy with this work?", and go from there.

Just the other day, I had someone call about my catering a large dinner since they had tasted my cooking at the Senior Center. Maybe I'll quit carpentry and become a caterer, or maybe I'll just be a catering carpenter, sailing captain, tourism developer, and anything else someone is willing to pay for. Just because the job changes, doesn't mean we do.

The analogy I like to use is that of an Indian that goes hunting for food. If they go out with one arrow in their quiver, they may come back empty handed, but if they have a quiver full of arrows, chances are they'll be eating dinner.

Tom

[535is]

As a person getting canned , I don't really want a "direction of the company has changed" speech. I'd rather hear: " You haven't been able to be successful in this position and we are letting you go.".
Even when it's true? :brow

My wife is one of the most capable people I know. She kept her company out of innumerable problems and brought them stability and consistency over the 16 years she was with it (where no predecessor of hers had lasted over two years). The direction of the company did change. They sold all of their production capacity to their largest customer, who had no need of research or product development (of which, as R&D director, my wife had charge). Now, all they need is a scapegoat to explain to the EPA and DNR when somebody screws up and produces uncontrolled quantities of toxic waste. She was escorted out by an HR director (in tears - she is a good friend of ours) without a thank-you for 16 years of faithful and unparalleled service. You don't tell someone who is fabulously successful in their position that they were not when it is your own fault. :rolleyes

[Rapid_Roy]

.....
Now, the biggest problem is not having someone to tell me to "go home". This came about because I knew nobody could beat my quality or my price because I was willing to do whatever it took to get and keep costumers.
Never underestimate the value of a good costume.:stick :laugh

[From MARS]

Never underestimate the value of a good costume.:stick :laugh

Well, some of them did dress funny. Thanks.

At least I know you read it.:wave

Tom

[rkasal]

Well, some of them did dress funny. Thanks.

At least I know you read it.:wave

Tom


I saw it but was too polite to point it out. ;)

[From MARS]

I saw it but was too polite to point it out. ;)

:ha :ha :ha :ha :ha :ha :ha :ha :ha You're kidding, right?

Tom

[riderR1150GSAdv]

This morning at 8:00 I have to fire this gal. I have so far set her up like a bowling pin EXACTLY like HR has had me play the game; verbal warning(s) with plan to improve, written warnings using specifics on what's wrong and improvement. Now after the last series of screw up's, I have to put the hammer down, and I hate it!

So this gal comes in at 8:00. Last week, she signed a document indicating she wants to step down from her F/T position, and go to part time, and since I have no part time, she in effect has resigned.

Hows should I handle it, give her a choice to resign based on this, or out right state the conversation of "I have to let you go"?

I'm not good at this stuff, hate to do it, and have only done this two times in my life. HR prepped a check so it's give me the keys, clean out your desk, good by.

I am really fretting this this morning, and need some advice by 8:00 central time. Anybody out there?

So how did it go?? :lurk
I never liked laying off people or firing them, I have been at the receiving end too and that is why I'm self-employed. I hope it went well for you both.

[SIBUD]

Even when it's true? :brow

My wife is one of the most capable people I know. She kept her company out of innumerable problems and brought them stability and consistency over the 16 years she was with it (where no predecessor of hers had lasted over two years). The direction of the company did change. They sold all of their production capacity to their largest customer, who had no need of research or product development (of which, as R&D director, my wife had charge). Now, all they need is a scapegoat to explain to the EPA and DNR when somebody screws up and produces uncontrolled quantities of toxic waste. She was escorted out by an HR director (in tears - she is a good friend of ours) without a thank-you for 16 years of faithful and unparalleled service. You don't tell someone who is fabulously successful in their position that they were not when it is your own fault. :rolleyes


Getting "fired" doesn't mean what it used to mean. It used to mean it was YOUR fault that your employment ended. Now it just means you don't have a job anymore.

In your wife's case, they should have clearly thanked her for all of her accomplishments and achievements during her tenure as well as given her notice, rather than escort her off the property with no warning. Bad employer behavior on their part.

[535is]

Getting "fired" doesn't mean what it used to mean. It used to mean it was YOUR fault that your employment ended. Now it just means you don't have a job anymore.
I can understand that.
In your wife's case, they should have clearly thanked her for all of her accomplishments and achievements during her tenure as well as given her notice, rather than escort her off the property with no warning. Bad employer behavior on their part.
Glad to know I am not the only one who feels that way. :thumb

[KGT1200]

For my x employee it was an end, and even though I, as her supervisor is getting the blame, I'm sure it was a huge weight off her shoulders, because she has been struggling with being the life of the party at night and working during the day..somebody had to put it to rest. The job was way above her capabilities; glad I didn't have squat to do with hiring her!

The new beginning is for the rest of us, who now no longer have to put up with her poor work habits, her mistakes and foul attitude. it's over.

I read everybody who posted prior to 8:00, aand took all the advice EXCEPT having an HR present; HR is at our corporate office in Saint Paul, but kept it short and sweet, and it's over with her and mine dignity still in place. Amen!

Thanks all of you for your great advice! aaaand well, friendship! this is such a great group!

red

[jdmetzger]

Thanks all of you for your great advice! aaaand well, friendship! this is such a great group!

red

+1 :thumb

[MplsK100RT]

glad that it was uneventful. I always hated firing people (except one). What sort of business is this?

[SIBUD]

All is well that ends well.

Glad it is behind you.

[kreinke]

Sorry to offend anyone in the field but nearly every HR person I've dealt with was evil. I know they have a job to do but some of them enjoy it a little too much.

Many of them truly have no heart or compassion.

"I'm sorry your child has cancer but you are over your limit for absences for the year and the rules are the rules" type of crap.

I've been escorted out of a few places in my time.....never, however, for anything I didn't deserve. It's not that I didn't have a decent work ethic, it was (this may surprise some of you) my mouth that got me in to trouble and I wasn't a "team player". Fortunately for me, I've turned myself around simply by knowing when to speak and when no to.

And most importantly, don't call an HR person...what were those words I used? Oh Yeah, a "fat f****ng pig".

[The_Veg]

I have been layed off so many times,

In the old sense of the word or the new? I rather hate how the meaning has changed. Just makes unpleasantness artificially polite.

[Oldhway]

Well, some of them did dress funny. Thanks.

At least I know you read it.:wave

Tom

Had to read it 4 times to catch it. My bad.

[amiles]

Occasionally our city police were called to "stand by" or "Keep the Peace" when someone was terminated in a local business and an emotional acting out was "anticipated". Not only did the person loose their job, they were made to look like a criminal as well.

I often wondered if this was done for a final bit of humiliation.