Another F800GS delay?

[merkinmuffley]

Being discussed on the Chain Gang

I just heard a rumor today, that I can not confirm, that the US introduction of the F800GS has been further delayed until December. It will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true. The way BMW is going lately it sounds beliveable to me.

http://f650.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=218011

[Herleman]

One of the folks at my local dealer told me that they had heard that it would be added to the lineup next November and that it is usually available to the dealers two or three months after that.

I'm afraid that BMW will have hurt themselves with their marketing strategy on the bike if that turns out to be true.

Did they give their marketing plan to Chris Bangle???

[riderR1150GSAdv]

No not Chris, but VW.......They are the worst, remember that overpriced Passat??? The $80K flop

[PAULBACH]

One of the folks at my local dealer told me that they had heard that it would be added to the lineup next November and that it is usually available to the dealers two or three months after that.

I'm afraid that BMW will have hurt themselves with their marketing strategy on the bike if that turns out to be true.

Did they give their marketing plan to Chris Bangle???

That is a lot of time for buyers to spend time in other showrooms like Honda and Harley. Buyers like to see new models and fresh offerings.

[Beemerdons]

It seems that all of the North American Dealers are now being given the same information, at the same time, from BMW MotorradAG. Not all confused like before!

The three dealers here in Arizona are stating exactly what Herleman's local dealer is saying: "added to the lineup in November and expect it 2 to 3 months later".

PAULBACH is right on the money! As fast as Honda can mobilize production, if they could rapidly deploy a modern "Trans Alp," that was so wildly popular world wide, they could undercut the F800GS sales big time. You know Honda Inc. would bring a "F800GS" to us at a price point that would make it hard to stay with BMW!

If Harley-Davidson/Buell could rapidly introduce the new Rotax engine into the Ulysses, they would have me seriously looking at one. Since I last posted my disappointment over having to get my $500 deposit from BMW of Scottsdale, due to failure of BMW to deliver my F800GS before my Summer Mexico trip, I borrowed a Ulysses for a day and rode over Four Peaks wilderness dirt road east of Phoenix.

The Ulysses performed great, the only underwhelming item is the basically same V-Twin that is in my 2002 H-D FXD. Add a Rotax engine and I will buy a Ulysses.

Chain Gang link had some interesting observations. It is correct that the KTM 690 Adventure that I am interested in probably will not arrive in North America before the F800GS. But the KTM 690 Enduro is here now and Phoenix dealers have them.

The post at CG that really caught my eye is the mention of the Triumph Scrambler!

The Triumph Scrambler is now a cool looking bike with a solid/dependable engine.

But even hero Steve McQueen would lighten it up and provide better suspension for this Triumph Scrambler to make it a real offroad machine. Imagine if Triumph was to take the Rickman Brothers approach and use the core engine and tranny, which are bullet proof components, and bring back a Rickman 800 twin! Wowser!

[Braddog]

The 800GS looks to be a little more dirt-worthy than the Uly, for sure. But, on the other hand, if you're in the market, are you going to wait? And for how long?

Honda seems satisified selling cruisers and sportbikes in the U.S., along with Goldwing's and the occasional ST. Is it time to re-introduce a bike like the Transalp, or even the Varadero, to the U.S. market?

By seeing an 800GS up close at the local IMS, and reading the preliminary reviews, this looks to be a great motorcycle. I'm not sure exactly how much the U.S. figures in BMW's market window, but they may just miss it here.

[boxerr]

I have ridden the Scrambler, and not fussed with it.
15 minute ride, and numb hands. seat a shocker, good power, but not a dual purpose bike in my mind.
If the X Country, and X Challenge had bigger fuel tanks, they would be a good alternative to the F650GS that some of us use.
Maybe R1200GS/A sales will get bigger before the F800GS arrives?
Looks like we are in the same "late" boat as you people with the 800.

[Visian]

As fast as Honda can mobilize production, if they could rapidly deploy a modern "Trans Alp," that was so wildly popular world wide, they could undercut the F800GS sales big time. You know Honda Inc. would bring a "F800GS" to us at a price point that would make it hard to stay with BMW!

yeah, butt... the honda would have no power.

i looked very close at transalp back when they first appeared. the thing could barely get out of its own way.

my R80G/S could smoke it easily... especially now, since it's got R100 cylinders :evil

even the varadero that honda sells in europe is down on power, although i heard you could put the top end from their superhawk 996 sport bike that shares the same engine and really do some damage.

the F800 will be one of BMWs most successful models ever, if it ever gets here.

ian

ps => according to this flyer (http://www.honda.ca/MCPE/Motorcycle/SpecialOffers/eurobike.htm?L=E), the varadero is coming to canada.

[Beemerdons]

Visian: I feel that you are 100% correct in stating that the F800GS may be the most successful model ever. In my particular case, it was my ox that was gored when I placed my deposit down on the first available day to do so, and was promised by BMW that my F800GS would be delivered in either April or May, 2008.

I then sold my perfectly good Kawasaki KLR 650 based upon false info from AG und BMWNA. So in June I do not have a dual sport for my planned/paid MEX trip!

Actually, friends in AZ Beemers are urging me to find a R100GS Airhead for myself.


boxerr: Australia and Arizona have a common bond in having a huge desert wilderness to have great fun in by riding a dual sport machine thru the territory!

Sadly, and who knows what BMW was thinking when they put a stupid 2.5 gallon tank on a machine named Cross Country, you would be eaten by dingos and I would be eaten by coyotes when we both run out of petrol in the AZ/OZ outback!

[Braddog]

I hope you're right about the 800GS, Ian. I'm constantly on the hunt for what will be my "modern" motorcycle. I want something that's a little newer tech in addition to my airheads, and a dualsport like the 800GS fits the bill, for sure.

[boxerr]

Beemerdons, dont worry about running out in the desert, you wouldnt get out of town!!:laugh

[Beemerdons]

Beemerdons, dont worry about running out in the desert, you wouldnt get out of town!!:laugh

You are right on that boxerr! Check out the map of my home County - Maricopa.

9,500 square miles just for my county. 165 miles between fuel on native Indian Reservation Land. Couldn't take a G650X across the Tohono O'ohdam Tribal Land.

[Mika]

Come on guys keep up. Its been in the news and on the BMW Motorrad USA ( http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/etc/utils.jsp?t=news&idx=4&newscat=general) website for two weeks.

[Beemerdons]

Very Sorry, M1ka: When I was handed back my $500 deposit on my F800GS that was promised for April-May delivery and now will not get here until December with a higher price, I just went ahead and deleted BMW Motorrad USA from "Favorites".

I replaced it with http://www.ktm.co.at/ and I've been periodically going to the garage to talk to Ingrid, my R1150RT, and Mi Mexico Mule, my R1100GS, to prepare them for the arrival of their Austrian little brother. They appear on the whole to be taking it well, but Lucy Liu, my Yamaha FJR1300, is having a problem!!

[PAULBACH]

Give bikes access to this website (http://www.freetranslation.com/)

(Free Translation)

Sounds like a mini United Nations you have there.

[Beemerdons]

PAULBACH: That was a good one! Especially since the fourth "Girl" in my garage is Pamela Anderson, my Harley-Davidson Dyna Glide 88, the one with the big jugs!

PAULBACH: You seem very knowledgeable on the Buell products and on Rotax engines! Have you had an opportunity to delve into and study the latest Rotax motor that has now been placed into the Buell street roadsters and is slated for introduction into the Ulysses lineup? I turn sixty this year, so this will probably be my last dual sport purchase. I am hoping that I can last until eighty years of age still riding like Herb LeGendre, a Twenty-Five year member of my club AZ Beemers!

BMW really pulled the football away from me like Miss Lucy always does to Charlie Brown in the Peanuts comics. I HAVE to have another dual sport before this June!

Even though it seems counter productive, I'm now leaning towards going out and buying another Kawasaki KLR 650 for this Summer's Mexico offroad expedition.

This'd give me breathing room to make a really good decision on my last dirt bike!

[Mika]

I totally appreciate being upset that your anticipated bike will not be there when you expected and wanted it. The KTM may well be a better choice for many than the BMW will turn out to be. A Ulysses with the Rotax (http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/Motorcycle/Engine.Models.htmt) engine would be interesting. Buell agrees with you base on what I have read in the past. The problem they had was getting Rotax production to match their ideas. In the end they wanted to road bike and the Ulysses will have to wait. Hmmm, sound familiar?

[PAULBACH]

I think HD/Buell came out with a Rotax engine in one of their bikes this spring but not a parallel engine. But the engine went into a sport bike which has quite a lean forward position for the rider. Seems like they got the right engine but then put it in the wrong bike.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/Motorcycle%20Pics/Buell.jpg
It would have been sweet in the Buell XT. So HD has the right engine, but they put it in the wrong bike.

Will be going out today to pick up one of those free neck gaiters that Buell is giving away. Don't want Buell to think that BMW riders are so snobbish as to turn down free motorcycle apparel.b :laugh

[Beemerdons]

M1ka: I know that you are trying to be helpful to me in my predicament, and I do appreciate that; and this is stated sincerely, not in some flippant offhand manner.

The major difference in my particular dealing's with BMW (versus anything that KTM, Buell, or other manufacturers have stated regarding their new and upcoming products) is that I'd entered into a Contract to Purchase reflecting delivery dates.

Wanting is one thing, "expecting" a contract to be fulfilled due to a fiduciary and legally binding document is another. As Senior Pipefitting Project Manager for one of the largest contractors in Arizona, Metro Mechanical, Inc., I am in the State of Arizona Department of Administration quite a bit securing permits and filing plans.

We Arizonans have the toughest Consumer Fraud "Lemon Laws" in the nation.

While on business on my company matters, I popped into the AZ Consumer Affairs Department and presented all of my paperwork on this matter: All the BMW Press Releases, BMW Advertisements, and most importantly, my $500 deposit contract.

Long story short, the State of Arizona told me I possibly could recover five times my deposit in punitive damages. But you probably are just like me, in realizing that sometimes pushing an economic injustice is just not worth the heartache!

What's saddest about my affair is I'm now turning my back on BMW after 40 years!

[srb]

Since we're drifting into talking about the motor co. from Milwaukee...Last July they hyped the new Rocker, then 6 months of waiting for launch. That bike is now sitting on showroom floors. Marketing and production need to meet to have a home run. Whatever the reasons, financial or otherwise, this isn't helping the roundel.

[Beemerdons]

I think HD/Buell came out with a Rotax engine in one of their bikes this spring but not a parallel engine. But the engine went into a sport bike which has quite a lean forward position for the rider. Seems like they got the right engine but then put it in the wrong bike.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/Motorcycle%20Pics/Buell.jpg
It would have been sweet in the Buell XT. So HD has the right engine, but they put it in the wrong bike.

Will be going out today to pick up one of those free neck gaiters that Buell is giving away. Don't want Buell to think that BMW riders are so snobbish as to turn down free motorcycle apparel.b :laugh

Are you riding? I've family in Corinth, Saratoga Springs and Glens Falls, New York.

They've told me that this has been a really rough winter and they finally can get some use out of their snowmobiles. If you find a Buell representative that seems knowledgeable, please press him for more information on the new Rotax engine.

I buy my Harley's from either Buddy Stubbs in Phoenix or Chester's H-D in Mesa.

Neither of these shops carries Buell, and the Buell shop in Chandler and shop in Tucson don't know a thing about Buell. They just want to sell Fat Boys and Glides!

[bigdelta]

I think HD/Buell came out with a Rotax engine in one of their bikes this spring but not a parallel engine. But the engine went into a sport bike which has quite a lean forward position for the rider. Seems like they got the right engine but then put it in the wrong bike.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/Motorcycle%20Pics/Buell.jpg
It would have been sweet in the Buell XT. So HD has the right engine, but they put it in the wrong bike.

Will be going out today to pick up one of those free neck gaiters that Buell is giving away. Don't want Buell to think that BMW riders are so snobbish as to turn down free motorcycle apparel.b :laugh

for a cookout,but I don't believe they'll be giving those neck gaiters away here in south Florida!
Maybe something to keep us cool though.High 82 today.:usa

[Mika]

Again I appreciate your feelings Beemerdons; however, I suspect you will have trouble with a contract argument. Based on my experience I found my contract was with the dealer. Failure to perform was his error for overstating what he could deliver in that contract. When we tried to move up the food chain to the manufacturer they were able to spit out the proverbial hook because their contract contained the legalize escape clause that protected them.

[Mongo]

Maybe something to keep us cool though.High 82 today.:usa

You are killing me! We have not seen the sun in almost a week. It is supposed to come out on Monday briefly before disappearing for another long stretch. :(
I always get so weary of winter in February.

[tommcgee]

Speaking about Buell, free neck gaitor offer: http://www.experiencebuell.com/

[bigdelta]

You are killing me! We have not seen the sun in almost a week. It is supposed to come out on Monday briefly before disappearing for another long stretch. :(
I always get so weary of winter in February.

comes the liquid sunshine too!A few showers but rain never hurt anyone,unless you're traveling 100 mph w/o a shield.
Hang in there,spring is just around the corner...:p

[Herleman]

I'm afraid that father BMW has lost some customers on the 800GS project -- some perhaps permanently. I think many might have taken a decision to halt the GS production altogether better than they are taking the on again -- off again marketing decisions that are being made.

And the suggestion that the delay may be due to excess inventory of larger GS models is ludicrous. Its like saying that they know that no one will want a 1200 once the 800 is introduced so we need to con those customers into buying something that they don't want by withholding the availability of something that we know they do want. Do they expect us to buy a 1200 and trade it on an 800 in a year? And what of the resale value of the 1200s if that is their strategy?

I'm willing to bet that we will eventually hear a rumor that production was stopped because of some horrible flaw in the design. Such a rumor, unanswered by facts, could easily cause the project to go stillborn. But BMW leave themseleves open to such speculation by telling the customer one story after another after another.

I love their bikes, but their marketing and customer service is going to kill them.

Is there a Trans Alp Honda still in production?

[jdmetzger]

I'm coming into this thread a touch late, but I was thinking about the big BMW promotion from the motorcycle shows, and on their website; the whole "Be Unstoppable" 03/08/08 F800GS giveaway. It's possible this is why in the contest rules they say "subject to vehicle availability". I wonder what they'll substitute as the prize, or if they'll ship ONE to the US for the winner? :dunno

[PAULBACH]

You are killing me! We have not seen the sun in almost a week. It is supposed to come out on Monday briefly before disappearing for another long stretch. :(
I always get so weary of winter in February.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/Smilies/good_post.gif

But ..

There are things worse than getting weary of winter in February ... like getting weary of winter in March and early April ;)

[Tominator]

Did they give their marketing plan to Chris Bangle???


I personally met Chris Bangle last year in Seattle. Interesting chat...one sharp American!

BMW is taking some risky challenges on...in the March issue of "Motor Cyclist" they summed it up correctly...

"The Business of BMW"

Big Changes are afoot inside BMW Motorrad. Will they jeopardize the company's recent success?"

Apparently some guy named Dr. Herbert Diess has been promoted from his position as President of BMW Motorrad to a seat on the companies’ main board of directors.

BMW is making record profits while jeopardizing delivery of vehicles while Diess is in charge of squeezing vendors to optimize profits. A far cry from the creative role he thrived in at BMW! Though he is no longer directly involved with Motorcycles, he will be remembered for successfully transforming BMW from a Niche manufacturer of quirky-but-worthy motorcycles into a major player with a full range of products capable of competing head on with the Japanese while offering superior perceived quality and status (Sorry Japan, Taiwan and Korea)

My Take? They are having supply issues hence the delay in providing actual product to the US market (And Canada) In the past Canadians where the test bed for new launches, something that has become a thing of the past.

It will be worth the wait! 800GS I’m waiting…..please before Christmas! Delay has nothing to do with a flaw, the 800 is bullet proof!

Tomas:german

[billp]

It will be worth the wait! 800GS I’m waiting…..please before Christmas! Delay has nothing to do with a flaw, the 800 is bullet proof!

Tomas:german

OhOh. Touch wood.

[merkinmuffley]

OhOh. Touch wood.

With the way the Dollar is dropping, he'd be better off touching gold.

[Polarbear]

My new GSA1200 and its 8.7 g's will not run out and I just did the AZ.,Mexican Border deserts last week, with a little Death Valley thrown in too:). A lot of offroad in all conditions. Yep, the GSA is bigger, BUT no slouch out there and certainly no lack of GAS:)...I grew tired of the F800 saga and will maybe go there another day in BMW's future, when they get off the stick. This is a first for BMW, as they have never in my years done a release and "not released". I think you will find millions and millions of dollars saved in Europe, by holding the American Dollar at arms length. Its weak and they know it! Raandy13233

[BeemerMike]

I personally met Chris Bangle last year in Seattle. Interesting chat...one sharp American!

. . . whose styling sense stinks! "Flame surfacing"?! The BMW cars now look Asian in design, and the motorcycles started to go that way, but have come back a little in the last few releases. Chris Bangle is the main reason I am looking at the new MB C300 Sport Sedan for a new car (I'd go for the C350, but you cannot buy it with a manual transmission).

[Tominator]

. . . whose styling sense stinks! "Flame surfacing"?! The BMW cars now look Asian in design, and the motorcycles started to go that way, but have come back a little in the last few releases. Chris Bangle is the main reason I am looking at the new MB C300 Sport Sedan for a new car (I'd go for the C350, but you cannot buy it with a manual transmission).

Bye Bye Beemer Mike, hope you enjoy your Benz....Chris made a great reference to all Older BMW's looked like "Book Ends" He was right...now they have a distinct look like nothing else. If you are comparing the jap cars to BMW new styling? They actually copied BMW's style because the new world order within BMW styling department has increased the car sales and excitement world wide. Sorry for the bad news...but his design team has also made changes to the new Beemer Bikes. At first I felt the same as you, but the new styling is starting to grow on me! (I hate to say it) I currently own a 2003 RT and people often comment on it like Nice Bike, but when I borrow a new RT form the Dealer people say WOW! Never new BMW was that big into motorcycles.

Oh on the Benz? Not the same car they used to be from a quality perspective, make sure you get a extended warranty.

Cheers
Tomas:bow

[merkinmuffley]

Oh on the Benz? Not the same car they used to be from a quality perspective, make sure you get a extended warranty.

Cheers
Tomas:bow

+1 on that. I had a '05 S500 Benz - what a piece of crap. Never again. Ergonomics all wrong, cheap interior and stuff breaks a lot. Buy a M5 BMW, you can get it with the standard transmission. I tried out a M6 with SMG, didn't like the way it shifted around town. The dealer let us take it out for a day, nice road car - horrible around town with it's abrupt shifts.

[Tominator]

Mercedes has had some issues over the years. I suspect the price of automobiles and the fierce Japanese Competition has led them astray sacrificing quality for price. It’s a tough market out there...BMW is one of few that has continued to succeed in the Hi End Car market.

Tomas:german

[BeemerMike]

Bye Bye Beemer Mike, hope you enjoy your Benz....Chris made a great reference to all Older BMW's looked like "Book Ends" He was right...now they have a distinct look like nothing else. If you are comparing the jap cars to BMW new styling? They actually copied BMW's style because the new world order within BMW styling department has increased the car sales and excitement world wide.

Oh, I'm well aware that Chris Bangle deflects all criticism of him and what he has done to BMW as just coming from the "design unwashed" of the world who do not understand his genius.

Granted, BMW car sales are up . . . but Toyota just overtook the General to be the #1 world wide vehicle manufacturer, and I don't plan to buy a Toyota either. I'm not sure it really makes much difference if it is a BMW looks like a Honda, or it is a Honda looks like a BMW. I have noticed that the new Hyundai's have bustle-back trunks like the new 6-Series. Is that good?

BMW cars now have a distinct look like nothing else?! When I come up on a new 3-Series coupe from behind, I still cannot be sure that it is not a Toyota Camry until I can see the roundel.

Sorry for the bad news...but his design team has also made changes to the new Beemer Bikes.

I know, and I noted that in my post. The recent R1200 ST?! What was THAT?

At first I felt the same as you, but the new styling is starting to grow on me! (I hate to say it) I currently own a 2003 RT and people often comment on it like Nice Bike, but when I borrow a new RT form the Dealer people say WOW! Never new BMW was that big into motorcycles.

The new Audi styling is starting to grow on me. The new BMW styling . . . not so much. ;)

Oh on the Benz? Not the same car they used to be from a quality perspective, make sure you get a extended warranty.

MB's recent reliability issues have generally centered on trying to put too much electronics and technology in their cars, especially their braking assist system (sound familiar?). I believe they have been rethinking that, and the C-class does not have as much tech and gizmos to start with. And anyway, I'm not claiming that MB has the best reliability.

But let's not kid ourselves that BMW cars are the pinnacle of reliability. I have bought five new BMW cars since 1998, and they all had problems, many of which the BMW dealers could not fix without multiple attempts. BMW essentially bought back my second Z3 2.8, because they could not figure out why when driving at 1,900 rpm with the AC on the car would randomly NOT slow down when you took your foot off the throttle (although it would never do it if the AC was off). Plastic water pumps and radiators that are not "life of the engine" components. And now I hear the new 3.5 liter twin-turbo engine overheats if you drive it too hard. Both MB and BMW now have 4/50 warranties, and you should consider an extended warranty on both if you plan to keep them longer (although those warranties are overall a bad deal).

And not "bye bye", I plan to stay in Bimmerland . . . I'll just be keeping my 2001 Z3 3.0i. I love the way BMW cars drive . . . I just do not love the way the new BMW cars look.

Uh . . . I guess we've gotten a little off topic for this thread.

[Beemerdons]

I'd originally posted onto the thread because I was one of the very first to put a deposit down on the new F800GS here in Arizona; and one of the first to get his $500 back because this bike won't arrive until 2009 and who knows at what price.

However, you really caught my attention with your knowledge of BMW cars and particularly the Z3 sports car. If you don't want to clog up the thread by replying here my personal e-mail is beemerdons@aol.com and I want to know about the Z3

I'm wild about 4 cylinder sports cars: Triumph Spitfire, MGB, Mini Cooper, TR4 and my greatest 4 cylinder sports car I've owned, my 1966 Volvo P1800S; 500K miles.

If you don't mind, I would like to pick your brain regarding the BMW Z3 1.9 liter four cylinder roadsters; any pros and cons that you can tell me about this model.

I have been riding BMW opposed twin motorcycles continuously since March of 1969 (up to four beemers in the garage), but this will be my first BMW automobile!

Any links or articles about the 4 cylinder BMW Z3 would sincerely appreciated. Don

[Tominator]

Point Taken...Welcome Back Mike!

Tomas

[Kutcher]

However, you really caught my attention with your knowledge of BMW cars and particularly the Z3 sports car. If you don't want to clog up the thread by replying here my personal e-mail is beemerdons@aol.com and I want to know about the Z3

I'm wild about 4 cylinder sports cars: Triumph Spitfire, MGB, Mini Cooper, TR4 and my greatest 4 cylinder sports car I've owned, my 1966 Volvo P1800S; 500K miles.

If you don't mind, I would like to pick your brain regarding the BMW Z3 1.9 liter four cylinder roadsters; any pros and cons that you can tell me about this model.

Any links or articles about the 4 cylinder BMW Z3 would sincerely appreciated. Don

www.bmwcca.org
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1996-to-2002-bmw-z3.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/z3/review.html
http://www.z3bimmer.com/
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/z3/
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=228
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=137


In fact, I think I've probably got a few older CCA mags around here that have articles on the Z3. If I find them I can hand them off to your family here...Then they can send it off to you in the next care package!


And follow this link.
http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/moto.cgi

Type in what your looking for.
This combines classified and auction listings from various sites...

It says its only for motorcycles but it works for cars as well...
such as this finding.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-3-Series-BMW-Z3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ320219511907QQsspagename ZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

[Kutcher]

One other thing to keep in mind about the 90s-early 00s...

Read this carefully...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=349393

This was a concern I had with my e36.

[Beemerdons]

Kutcher, This's just great! Will have plenty of locations to find more Z3 info. THX! D

[BeemerMike]

I'm wild about 4 cylinder sports cars: Triumph Spitfire, MGB, Mini Cooper, TR4 and my greatest 4 cylinder sports car I've owned, my 1966 Volvo P1800S; 500K miles.

If you don't mind, I would like to pick your brain regarding the BMW Z3 1.9 liter four cylinder roadsters; any pros and cons that you can tell me about this model.


Don, Sorry for the tardy reply, but I've been down with a cold/flu for a few days.

I see there have been plenty of posts regarding Z3 links, so I won't repeat. Thanks Kutcher. Although the Z3's have a few problems (the rear subframe issue being a primary one) you can easily check for them and correct them (the rear subframe appears to be a reinforcement issue, and I'm not really sure how many Z3's actually develop this. The one thing I would note is that I don't think the early Z3's (the first year or two, which includes the 1.9) were quite as refined as the later cars. Early audio systems were pretty poor. Rear-end styling change in 1999. I've had both, and not sure which I like better, but any trunk lid alignment problems are more noticeable on the early rear-end design.

However, the one comment I would make to you is about the engine. Although I also like 4-cylinder engines, the BMW inline 6 is a joy to behold . . . smooth and plenty of low-end torque. A four-cylinder will never provide the driving pleasure of the BMW inline 6 (especially with an exhaust system to let a little of the sound out - the early Z3 exhausts were too quiet, the later ones are much better). There are just not many inline 6's out there anymore as most carmakers have gone to V6's (including MB), and this engine really makes the Z3 a different car than the 1.9 four. If you want a four-cylinder two-seat convertible, I'd just buy a late-model Miata, and avoid any reliability issues. If you want to save some money, buy the smaller of the two 6's that were available for any specific year (and there are probably more of the smaller 6's out there to pick from). You may loose a little power, but the rest of 6 advantages will still be there. You can just pull the engine size emblem off the trunk lid and know one will know (unless they are really good about knowing which wheels went with which engine, and a few other minor trim differences).

[DADODIRT]

F800GS delay?

Or did I get swithched to a car forum?:dunno

[Kutcher]

F800GS delay?

Or did I get swithched to a car forum?:dunno



Yah' sorry about that, just trying to help a fellow out upon request...

Besides, this whole "delay thing" was getting pretty boring anyway.

Its a known situation.
It really doesn't matter why.
Those that really want it will wait, and those that are ticked off will go else where.





Besides, I think that the last Bimmer, designed and engineered by engineers (rather than by accountants and stock holders) was the E30....Grab a E30 M3 4 banger....That'll show you the meaning of fun....

And if you really really want a rag top...
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bmwmregistry.com/media/E30M3cabexterior.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php%3Fid%3D9&h=320&w=600&sz=14&hl=en&start=31&sig2=GRRGBuyKiUcj_5aZv-bWDQ&tbnid=5sUibYJjOxl80M:&tbnh=72&tbnw=135&ei=ASjYR97qOYeOigHutOWFAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3De30%2Bm3%26start%3D18%26gbv%3D2%26nds p%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

[DADODIRT]

At least next months mc mags should have a writeup on the 800GS.

tik tok tik tok

[GrantMacEachern]

With the delay of the F800GS to North America I had time to consider the paint schemes offered. I'm not usually one to mess with original paint but thought BMW's initial colour offerings were not quite right. In this gallery, the last two pics show what I feel is an improvement. Opinions?
http://gallery.mac.com/grantmaceachern#100107&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=40

Despite the homage to the bumblebee I thought the yellow/black to be a touch weak and the gray with black be a bit visually distracting (too many components highlighted). The reddish orange is a nod to the GSA and the dark gray/black blends the whole bike together with a much tougher appearance.

[GrantMacEachern]

Yes, it has been a long winter.