Fashtek HID Conversion

[jonmill]

I asked this question on the LT forum and will throw it out here as well:

I'm converting both low beams on my RT, using the Fashtek "car kit" with two H7 bulbs, wiring, and ballasts.

Is there anyone here who has gone down this path before me who can offer any cautions, tips, or other advice? This will be the first serious modification I have attempted, and the first time I have taken off any of the dread tupperware.

[FredRydr]

I asked this question on the LT forum and will throw it out here as well:

I'm converting both low beams on my RT, using the Fashtek "car kit" with two H7 bulbs, wiring, and ballasts.

Is there anyone here who has gone down this path before me who can offer any cautions, tips, or other advice? This will be the first serious modification I have attempted, and the first time I have taken off any of the dread tupperware.You will likely be blinding the rest of us on the road at night, because the reflectors and lenses will not be able to focus the HID filamentless bulbs properly. Have the headlamps aimed, and if they focus properly, very cool. If they don't focus, do us all a favor and yank the HIDs and return 'em.

Fred

P.S. There is a thread about this, I think in the oilhead forum.

[sachiwilson]

I disagree. I had a HID low beam in my bike and never had any issues at night. No one flashed me at all.

HID bulb makers do try to match the focal point of their beams with the focal point of the halogen bulbs they are replacing. If it is a good bulb it will have good focus with the stock lens. That said, I don't know anything about Fashtek.

[jonmill]

You will likely be blinding the rest of us on the road at night, because the reflectors and lenses will not be able to focus the HID filamentless bulbs properly. Have the headlamps aimed, and if they focus properly, very cool. If they don't focus, do us all a favor and yank the HIDs and return 'em.

Fred

I bought the kit after reading a lot of favorable comments about this particular conversion on the LT forum. Most of the experiences reported there are favorable: good light, few complaints from other drivers.

[BigAdv]

I put HIDs in my RT. very easy and stait forward. No issues with other drivers. Althow I did aim them down a bite. (I did this before I changed to them as I was being flashed with the halogens) Some pics;

[BigAdv]

And where I mounted the balists;

[deilenberger]

Just a comment or two..

Typically - low beam bulbs such as H7's - have some sort of shield to keep the filament from being directly visible from the front of the light. Some bulbs use a painted on coating on the end to do this - other light housings are designed with a fixed shield. Hopefully the HID conversion has some provision for this - or you'll be blinding people with "dazzle" from the direct view of the arc.

As was mentioned - how well the lights fit directly effects how well the cutoff matches the halogen bulbs cutoff. Even a slight difference in shape/position of the HID arc vs the halogen filament can make a big difference.

I'd suggest as a minimum - to put your bike in a spot where you can mark a wall (or garage door) at a distance of about 30' from the bike. See how much light is above the cutoff line with the halogen. Try to match this with the HID conversion. You also should properly adjust the light. The usual way to do this is - pull up to your garage door (assuming a flat driveway) - and use some painters tape to mark the cutoff line. Back up 30' in your driveway - and the cutoff line should have moved at least 2-3" below the tape. That sets the correct drop so you won't be blinding oncoming motorists.

A FWIW - I tend to agree with Fred - and I've done (and then removed) HID conversions on BMW cars. Factory HIDs - with self-leveling (required by law in Europe) are a wonderful thing. Misaligned, or poorly matched to the lens optics are dangerous since blinded drives can wander into your lane. Not everyone who is blinded will flash you. If you get any number of flashes - you're too high or putting out too much glare.

YMMV and JMHO..

[JimVonBaden1]

Not an RT, but if the R1200GS is any indication, the HID bulbs work great with the BMW reflectors. Brighter, but not blinding.

After many many promises, I decided to do a short pictorial on how to install a set of HID lights in my R1200GS. This pictorial is done with lots of extra parts removed for clarity. I wont be telling you what tools to use, or torques. This type of pictorial doesn’t lend itself well to it, but you should easily be able to do what I did.
Edit: Removed install pictures...

Now lets take a look at the results:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-Low-only.jpg
Low HID. Clean white, but not too blue. This is the 4300 kit.

I then added a second GS, with Motolights, and compared them side-by-side.

Note that the bike on the left is completely stock with 35 watt Motolights. My bike has both HIDs, and 50 watt Motolights.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Both-bikes-low.jpg
Low beam, you can see the difference here.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Hi-Lo-2-bikes-01.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Both-bikes-bright.jpg
High beam, even more obvious.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Hi-Lo-Moto-2-bikes-01.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Hi-Lo-Moto-2-bikes-02.jpg
Both bikes with Motolights and High Beams.

It seems obvious to me, especially after riding at night, that the HID lights are definitely superior, and not as susceptible to dimming at idle with Gerbings and Servos going.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-Lights-bulb.jpg
Here is what the bulb looks like installed in the low beam.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/old-bulbs.jpg
Don’t forget to keep the old H7 bulbs, just in case. This procedure is completely reversible, and if an HID goes out, you can swap in the old H& in minutes.

Kermit came over tonight and showed off his newly colored Hella FF50 Lights.

I thought it a good opportunity to compare lights on each bike, so the following is my demo on my garage door.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-L-01.jpg
HID Low beam only

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Stock-H-L-01.jpg
Stock Low beam only

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-H-L-02.jpg
HID Low and High beam

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/PB295899.jpg
Stock Low Beam (Note, Kermit has removed the cover on the tip of the bulb for better light).

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/hella-yellow-close.jpg
Kermit's "yellow" FF50, painted with craft store spray stained glass window paint.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Comp-HL-FF50.jpg
HID (left) and stock, both High Beams, with yellow FF50s on the right.

As you can see the beam for the HID light is slightly more scattered, mostly horizontally, but has a very similar line and height. I am very confident that the HID wont be blinding.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-H-L-03-new-h-1.jpg
This is an example of a cold flash to pass. The High Beam HID was dead cold, and I flicked it on. When warm from recent use, it is VERY much brighter on Flash to Pass mode.

Also, for those concerned about excessive flood of light outside of the beam pattern, here is what you get:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/HID-L-02-reflect.jpg
Virtually identical to the stock amount of scattered light.

Jim 8)

PS Just a note, these are unretouched photos, and the camera made some adjustments based on the amount of light. The HID lights were significantly brighter than the pictures showed, but if you look at this picture:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/HID/Comp-HL-FF50.jpg

You can get a better feel for the differences.

Jim 8)

Sorry for the whole reprint, but I am feeling to lazy to edit it too much.

Jim :brow

[jonmill]

Thanks for the helpful comments and demos so far. It doesn't look like it's going to be too hard to install the kits.

I agree with the concern about blinding or dazzling other drivers. I chose the Fashtek version because most of those who have installed it report that they are not obnoxious in that regard. If there is a problem, I'll revert to the original lights.

[FredRydr]

Jim,

Where do those plastic bulb containers come from, and which bulbs fit in them? I want some.

H-11 and H-9 bulbs with their plastic bases and o-rings fit snugly in 35mm film containers, but I have nothing so good for old-style steel based bulbs. Then I saw your photo.

Fred

[JimVonBaden1]

Jim,

Where do those plastic bulb containers come from, and which bulbs fit in them? I want some.

H-11 and H-9 bulbs with their plastic bases and o-rings fit snugly in 35mm film containers, but I have nothing so good for old-style steel based bulbs. Then I saw your photo.

Fred

Those are the containers the HID lamps came in.

Jim :brow

[FredRydr]

Those are the containers the HID lamps came in.

Jim :brow

You don't need them anymore. Throw the empty containers away. No wait! Since they are just trash, recycle them by sending them to me.

Fred

[JimVonBaden1]

You don't need them anymore. Throw the empty containers away. No wait! Since they are just trash, recycle them by sending them to me.

Fred

:laugh

Come get em big boy!:p

Jim :brow

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

I asked this question on the LT forum and will throw it out here as well:

I'm converting both low beams on my RT, using the Fashtek "car kit" with two H7 bulbs, wiring, and ballasts.

Is there anyone here who has gone down this path before me who can offer any cautions, tips, or other advice? This will be the first serious modification I have attempted, and the first time I have taken off any of the dread tupperware.

I have a set of car HIDs fitted into the standard GS housings and all is great. No problem with any weird patterns or anything. Positioning is fine as I selected the same base fitting as the stock BMW type. Heat is a non-issue as they actually run cooler than stockers did (there are some rumours that they will melt housings), and I can tell you that in the black of night across I-90 in MT and ND they were as welcome an upgrade that I have ever had.

I keep mine adjusted lower than stock since 1) there is plenty of light even still to see better with, 2) when accelerating I am less likely to raise the ire of other motorists by frying their retinas etc...lol.

[lkchris]

Here is the definitive statement on HID conversions:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

[JimVonBaden1]

Here is the definitive statement on HID conversions:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Hardly definitive, but good information. Sometimes, like in the R1200GS, the reflective optics work just fine.

Jim :brow

[FredRydr]

Hardly definitive, but good information. Sometimes, like in the R1200GS, the reflective optics work just fine.
Some people will never be convinced. It's called being in denial.

That article is well supported, and I'd like to see sources approaching the credibility of Mr. Stern's that support the claim that R1200GS reflective optics work just fine. I submit that claim is exactly what the video talks about - people think it makes it safer and sportier, but in reality, it's a hazard to the rest of us on the road.

This will burden the motorcycling community in the same way as the loud pipes save lives mindset. Total denial motivated by the investment and the cool factor. So with research and safety staring us in the face, what do we do about these dangerous aftermarket kits?

Fred

[deilenberger]

Some people will never be convinced. It's called being in denial.

That article is well supported, and I'd like to see sources approaching the credibility of Mr. Stern's that support the claim that R1200GS reflective optics work just fine. I submit that claim is exactly what the video talks about - people think it makes it safer and sportier, but in reality, it's a hazard to the rest of us on the road.
I know a bit about Daniel Stern - he was an immense help to me when I was doing an article on lighting for the BMW Car Club magazine Roundel. Mr. Stern is a recognized expert on the subject - he has been requested by NHTSA several times to do an analysis of lighting standards and come up with recommendations that were adopted into law.

I found his analysis of HID conversions (and the tests done for DOT by CalCoast Labs) to very closely reflect what my own tests showed - which was what convinced me to remove an HID conversion setup from my old M3. The people who think the light output isn't blinding oncoming traffic - might perform an interesting experiment.. They should be in a car (with perhaps a not-perfect windshield) and have their bike coming at them in the opposite lane. I think they might be surprised at the result of the experiment.

The problem of scatter becomes even worse as we age - our eyes are more sensitive and slower to respond to glare.

This will burden the motorcycling community in the same way as the loud pipes save lives mindset. Total denial motivated by the investment and the cool factor. So with research and safety staring us in the face, what do we do about these dangerous aftermarket kits?

Fred
I'd say avoid them. I have found good quality (Hella) auxiliary lighting to provide equal or better (easier to aim) light enhancement on my bikes - and it's not only illegal, it's not annoying to oncoming traffic since they can be turned off when necessary.

The conversion HID kits are illegal. NHTSA/DOT is quite clear on that subject, and there is always a potential that the use of them might end up being evidence against the motorcyclist in a liability/injury lawsuit.

FWIW - I'm with Fred, I won't use them on my bikes, or cars (which are equipped with factory HID's with self-leveling..)

[JimVonBaden1]

Some people will never be convinced. It's called being in denial.

That article is well supported, and I'd like to see sources approaching the credibility of Mr. Stern's that support the claim that R1200GS reflective optics work just fine. I submit that claim is exactly what the video talks about - people think it makes it safer and sportier, but in reality, it's a hazard to the rest of us on the road.

This will burden the motorcycling community in the same way as the loud pipes save lives mindset. Total denial motivated by the investment and the cool factor. So with research and safety staring us in the face, what do we do about these dangerous aftermarket kits?

Fred


I don't see anything in his article specifically pointing out that ALL bikes optics are useless with HID. I'll keep mine.

Illegal or not, there is plenty of light with the HID, and that means I don't have to run my also illegal aux lights. It is a personal choice. As to use in a law suit, I'm not very worried about that. Personal choice.

Jim :brow

PS Disagreement is NOT denial! My motvations for using HID lights have nothing to do with the childish motivations of others. Note I use and advocate the use of, less blue lighting to increase output, NOT coolness.

PPS You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer would you? LOL

[BigAdv]

Very interesting article. I also find it interesting that Mr. Sterns income comes from selling aftermarket halogen lights. Just an obsevation. But I have to admit, its making me think twice about the lights on my bike.

Earl