Possible debris in engine..suggestions

[MEM0317]

New to MOA. My first thread here. While my father and I were replacing original, leaky right head gasket on '96 11gs and at the head-mounting phase...I swear I heard something fall into the sump from the chain-sprocket area. I rechecked for any missing parts and found all to be in place. The only thing I'm not sure of is the cam sprocket has a mounting bolt with sleeve and I believe that's all. I have since drained the oil and used a coathanger with a taped end to feel-around through the oil drain hole for the phantom thing. Other than using an endoscope through the chain to sprocket cavity is there anything I can do besides engine removal to make sure the sump is free of debris. I realize that there are no moving parts in the bottom and that if there was debris inside, probably no harm done, but as far as my sanity goes...it's driving me nuts how to handle this. Any suggestions or questions welcomed. Thanks Matthew

[kitze2]

Did you try dragging a powerful magnet around the bottom (from the outside of course) of the oil pan. If the mystery stuff is steel you might hear it click as you drag it against the aluminum. And if you're really lucky you might even be able to get it out of the sump via the drain hole. Admittedly if the oil pan casting is finned too deep it might not work. I know this sounds silly...But I actually managed to retrieve a head dowel from the sump on my Honda like this.
Good luck

[MEM0317]

Thanks for the reply.. I have considered this and tested some local hardware store magnets with lift ratings of 45-60lbs at the store and concluded they would not work through the sump which looks to be 1 to 1.5 inches in thickness. Going to look for some rare-earth magnets. Worst case I guess is remove the head again and look into the engine cavity and try fishing with a magnet or "bubble gum". Oh well, I enjoy fishing anyway. Payback for not being carefull enough.

[BuddingGeezer]

I don't have a R bike so I'm guessing. Is there a frame member that would keep you from removing the oil pan?

Another thing to try. Take a strong vacuum cleaner (shop vac) and place the suction hose at the oil drain hole. Should at least suck the thing to the hole if not out.

Ralph Sims

[PGlaves]

I had a cam follower break several chips off the sides of its piston shape dumping fairly small shards in the sump. I found a fairly small round button magnet of the end of an expandable pointer. I drilled a shallow hole in the top (inside side) of the oil drain plug and affixed the magnet in the hole sticking up about 1/16 inch.

I got a few pieces out each of the next several oil changes, but there doesn't seem to be any more sloshing around in there.

[PGlaves]

I don't have a R bike so I'm guessing. Is there a frame member that would keep you from removing the oil pan?

Another thing to try. Take a strong vacuum cleaner (shop vac) and place the suction hose at the oil drain hole. Should at least suck the thing to the hole if not out.

Ralph Sims

There is no "oil pan." The oil sump is part of the cast two-piece engine case. To actually get in there requires that the engine be removed and the cases split.

[jingdog]

I assume you bent the coathanger at a right angle, inserted the angle into the hole and rotated the part sticking out? Did you try turning the engine by hand to see if it sticks? Or hear any noises of something falling to the bottom as you turn it?

[MEM0317]

Since my post about the phantom debris, my main question "are there any more pieces to the cam-sprocket besides itself, the spacer and the mounting bolt?" , apparently not. So...I'm using acoms razor principle and guess that it was the cam chain seating itself or lapsing a bit into place during the head installation. Sounds great but I still need to be sure. Will try fishing with a magnet. Did the "old coathanger at 90 degrees check," and will also install a magnetic sump plug. Thanks for your interest and time.. Will post some pics of the bike when all is back to normal. Still getting some good riding days here in Knoxville, TN. Matthew

[dlearl476]

Since my post about the phantom debris, my main question "are there any more pieces to the cam-sprocket besides itself, the spacer and the mounting bolt?" , apparently not.

A good view of the parts fiche might help ease your mind.

fwiw, I was perusing the Griot's Garage "Cool tools you can't afford" catalogue the other day and they had a home endoscope with pincers in it for $300. $300 seems like a lot, for a tool you'd hardly ever use, but then how much is labor to tear an engine down and rebuild it?

Made me think it would be nice to have some kind of MOA "Tool Shed" that could make expensive factory tools or specialty tools available to check out for a moderate fee. Oh, wait. That would interfere with the BMW dealers ability to siphon our wallets. Never mind.:whistle

[mrich12000]

If you have an aircraft engine rebiulder at a local airport I think the chief mechanic would entertain the thought of an lower sump inspection. Im sure thats all it takes would be a phone call(and mabye a botle of Crown Royal) to settle the thought of a stray part in the sump. Or a BMW dealer, car or bike would be looking into.(and 100.00):wave

[AntonLargiader]

The only parts in the timing chain system are the chain, sprocket, bolt/washer, rails, and the rail pin. I can easily imagine the chain shifting or coming unstuck from the rail, or the rail rocking on its pivot or something like that and making such a sound.

In the same area, you have the cylinder bolt which lives at the back of the chain tunnel, with a washer on it.

If you still have the washers for every bolt, and all of the alignment dowels in place, it's probably not worth worrying about.

[MEM0317]

I have done a bolt and washer count. Everything is in its correct place. Thanks.

[MplsK100RT]

speaking of conformity/fascism I love the Italian logo in your sig, but I think that's against the rules now, too.:violin

A good view of the parts fiche might help ease your mind.

fwiw, I was perusing the Griot's Garage "Cool tools you can't afford" catalogue the other day and they had a home endoscope with pincers in it for $300. $300 seems like a lot, for a tool you'd hardly ever use, but then how much is labor to tear an engine down and rebuild it?

Made me think it would be nice to have some kind of MOA "Tool Shed" that could make expensive factory tools or specialty tools available to check out for a moderate fee. Oh, wait. That would interfere with the BMW dealers ability to siphon our wallets. Never mind.:whistle

[jingdog]

Made me think it would be nice to have some kind of MOA "Tool Shed" that could make expensive factory tools or specialty tools available to check out for a moderate fee. Oh, wait. That would interfere with the BMW dealers ability to siphon our wallets. Never mind.:whistle


That would be the best thing BMWMOA could do right now. I couldnt afford my motorcycle if BMW had to fix it.

[deilenberger]

That would be the best thing BMWMOA could do right now. I couldnt afford my motorcycle if BMW had to fix it.This has moved rather OT.. but a quick comment. The "toolbox" idea works much better at a more local level. If you have an active local club - often members will buy tools they're willing to lend out. Or the club itself may buy some and have a member assigned to keeping track of them.

The problem with this idea on a national level is administration. The national club would need someone to administer the tool sharing, which would include shipping the tool to the member, keeping track of the tools, bugging the member who doesn't return the tool on time. There is also the problem of tools being damaged - and who pays for the replacement.. plus some sort of deposit $$ would have to be setup and administered.

Like I said - lots easier to do this at a local level. The complexity nationally just doesn't make it really practical to do IMHO.

[120116]

If you are not sure and want to give yourself that peace of mind, check to see if you have a local inspection company in your area. They may have either a borescope or video scope that they would possibly be able to help you with. Look under industrial inspection companies.

Plumbers also sometimes have videoscopes for doing inspections. You may want to try this avenue. Also, electricians may have them also.

Good luck!!!

[beeryboats]

If you have an aircraft engine rebiulder at a local airport I think the chief mechanic would entertain the thought of an lower sump inspection. Im sure thats all it takes would be a phone call(and mabye a botle of Crown Royal) to settle the thought of a stray part in the sump. Or a BMW dealer, car or bike would be looking into.(and 100.00):wave


Great idea! Find an FBO, fixed base operator, that does maintenance on turbine engines. Chances are they have a video system with a fiberoptic camera lens that will go places you really don't want to think about. It may take more than a hundred bucks, but it could be very worth it in sleep.

[Godfather]

How's bout the guy's that clean out the ductwork in your house...they have small cameras that may work .

[MEM0317]

The old "friend of a friend" has come into play with a retired surgical scope being borrowed next week. Will let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for all the responses. Now to change the left gasket. :)

[jingdog]

When I was rebuilding my first VW engine I dropped a washer down into the short block. I tried fishing with a coat hanger/magnet for a few hours but had no luck. Sighing deeply I began taking it apart all over again to get the washer. Just then a friend came by. I told him the sad story and he said: I got an idea. We both picked up the short block, turned it upside down and shook it till the washer came out! If he hadnt come by I would have taken that thing all apart!