Don't go there

[Visian]

what say ye? :ear

ian

forum liaison

[adamceckhardt]

I enjoy a pretty diverse realm of entertainment. When it comes to online forums sometimes I like to have an adult discussion about worldly topics, sometimes its more fun to sling mud and act like a 10 year old. I think this forum is more appropriate for the civil discussions rather than the mudslinging. None of the immature stuff really bothers me- but I think the political arguments get old, and its starting to get to the point where some might begin to take offense regarding their political stance or set of beliefs. One thing I can't stand is being disrespectful to an individual for something they can't control- their gender, race, hair color, etc. As long as none of that goes on, I think this place is pretty safe for a more conservative adult crowd. Of course there are a few things that have been said that bug me, but I'm not going to take is personally. The greater majority of topics on this forum, including those found in DGT, make for good conversation. I just don't know where to draw the line, and I think that might be the chief problem for moderators. Its fun to joke around, but the challenge lies in interpretation. A few times I've poked fun at somebody around here with light-hearted intentions, and I hope the comments were interpreted as such. But its the Internet, and theres just not enough smilies to have a conversation that would compare to that of a real campfire chat.

[Hodag]

its almost been 2 months since the forum started
and it does have over 2100 posts
so it seems like its being used
for what?? who cares

plus we got a US presidential election this year, i'd keep it

i say it sucks, but until we get a gardenning forum
I'll not go there

[lamble]

It helps keep the Campfire clear of the subjects being raised there.
It means that the moderators aren't called on so frequently as might be the case if the DGT posts were in Campfire.

Perhaps a poll on what is ,or isn't acceptable within DGT would help?
If DGT becomes a soap box for a single individual, is it or is it not fulfilling it's purpose?

If not, then a judgement should be made on the forum and the threads that are allowed in it.

If it is acceptable, then it's working just fine as it is.

[James.A]

Honestly lamble, I have been resisting the tempatation to post semi-nude pictures for quite a long while. I say, no frontal nudity and no racism. Other than that,....free for all.... It's not for everyone, that's why they called it "Don't go there". Can I get a witness? How about a "Hell Yeah?"

[Hodag]

How about a "Hell Yeah?"

hell yeah


Happy new year Mr. Strickland

[James.A]

hell yeah


Happy new year Mr. Strickland

Back at ya...my liege.

[MCMXCIVRS]

I abide by the terms of the title and don't go there. I do like the fact that the nuisance of those threads is not cluttering up the other forums.

[Hodag]

Back at ya...my liege.

my liege???

liege??

you could barely afford a page..

[jdmetzger]

I'm of two minds about it. I DO enjoy the campfire being clear of all of those sorts of topics. I have also felt compelled to post on occasion, but that's usually because I see a post so devoid of actual facts that it requires a reply. On the other hand, if we set up forum rules banning those types of topics from the forum, I wouldn't miss DGT, at all.

Once thing I've noticed... someone hasn't been posting lately, and it's been rather quiet down there. Hmmm... It's really rather nice.

:whistle

[James.A]

Ian,... as a a libertarian,... I beseech you to do everything in your power to preserve this forum of scoundrels for the betterment of our polity.

[James.A]

Oh,... yeah,... before this forum goes **** up, I'm gonna post one of those naughty, non-frontal pictures I've been saving.

[535is]

Ian,... as a a libertarian,... I beseech you to do everything in your power to preserve this forum of scoundrels for the betterment of our polity.
Oh, sure! Ignoring the rights of rapscallions and curmudgeons ... :gerg

[SNC1923]

Keep it. It's working.

It's nice to have a purgatory before a thread goes straight to hell.

[Visian]

Oh,... yeah,... before this forum goes **** up, I'm gonna post one of those naughty, non-frontal pictures I've been saving.

that's Tango Update.... ;)

ian

forum liaison

[rocketman]

Keep it. It's working.

It's nice to have a purgatory before a thread goes straight to hell.

+1

I say keep it, if nothing else its a good source of rhetoric when ones needs some amusement.

Oddly enough but on three other forums I’m on they too have had to take similar measures of late, is this the precursor to some new social (or anti-social ?) trend we are seeing, where people feel this need to discuss such hot-button topics on forums initially started with entirely different goals ? (i.e. the discussion of motorcycle related topics and exchange of motorcycle related information).

I thought it interesting that even ADV felt the need to go beyond YoMomma with thier new area as mentioned by Kbase recently........

who knows, and more importantly, who cares?:laugh

In the end if keeps the other areas free of such, then it is serving it purpose.

RM

[Sue]

Thanks for asking Ian.

I am happy not having to dig through all the Hillary-bashing, gun-rights, right-wing conspiracy theory, provocative photographs, etc here in the Campfire.

It's working fine. I say keep it.

[GlobalRider]

what say ye? :ear

I say....this is a forum about BMW motorcycles and the BMWMOA so I'd be happy enough just discussing them and anything directly related to them.

If you want to talk politics for example...find a forum discussing political issues and topics.

[snoone]

It sucks but keep it.. The Speech and thoughts of the membership if they choose to go there should not be muffled.

[rkasal]

Even though someone (we dare not speak his name) from the British Isles seems to try to dominate the discussions, it's worth keeping.

[Rapid_Roy]

I say....this is a forum about BMW motorcycles and the BMWMOA so I'd be happy enough just discussing them and anything directly related to them.

If you want to talk politics for example...find a forum discussing political issues and topics.
In general, I would agree with this. However, if all we talked about were BMWs and anything directly related, that would leave out poetry, photography and possibly other subjects, which also have forums. Many politicians make laws that directly affect all us riders, so where exactly would the line be drawn? I can't ride the world, and I have no good ride reports, and I have posted more in the campfire then any other section of this forum. Truth be told, if somebody was talking about nothing besides BMW's at a real campfire at a rally, I would find that boring. I don't mind the section, and people who do should probably not go there, as advised.

[BeemoKat]

Honestly lamble, I have been resisting the tempatation to post semi-nude pictures for quite a long while. I say, no frontal nudity and no racism. Other than that,....free for all.... It's not for everyone, that's why they called it "Don't go there". Can I get a witness? How about a "Hell Yeah?"

hell yeah! I'm in favor of freedom of speech, and I have a hard time telling jokes without using four-letter words. OTOH, I don't spend any time in DGT.

[lancew]

Keep it- it's nice to get online without having to wade through garbage... and it's nice to have a place to go when you DO feel like wading through garbage.

[lamble]

Even though someone (we dare not speak his name) from the British Isles seems to try to dominate the discussions, it's worth keeping.

If you recall, I've suggested that if you feel so compelled to attack, you either PM me or confine it to DGT, the reason for that thread.

Telephoning me lacks class.

Anyone who wishes to partake of DGT will also see you exposed for what you are, so don't imply anyone other than your goodself wishes to or has the need to, keep flogging the dead horse you've hitched to.

Wisdom and peace obviously weren't on your Santa list. Now please grow up.

[jdmetzger]

Telephoning me lacks class.



Welcome to my world. Say "hi" to "Private Caller" for me. I wonder what military division he's in? :dunno

[SNC1923]

Telephoning me lacks class.

Welcome to my world. Say "hi" to "Private Caller" for me. I wonder what military division he's in? :dunno

Really? Calling you? At your home? Not cricket.

Is anyone else concerned about this, or is it just me?

[rkasal]

If you recall, I've suggested that if you feel so compelled to attack, you either PM me or confine it to DGT, the reason for that thread.

Telephoning me lacks class.

Anyone who wishes to partake of DGT will also see you exposed for what you are, so don't imply anyone other than your goodself wishes to or has the need to, keep flogging the dead horse you've hitched to.

Wisdom and peace obviously weren't on your Santa list. Now please grow up.

What?

[rkasal]

If you recall, I've suggested that if you feel so compelled to attack, you either PM me or confine it to DGT, the reason for that thread.

Telephoning me lacks class.

Anyone who wishes to partake of DGT will also see you exposed for what you are, so don't imply anyone other than your goodself wishes to or has the need to, keep flogging the dead horse you've hitched to.

Wisdom and peace obviously weren't on your Santa list. Now please grow up.


Oh, I get it. You are hearing voices again. Get a life and get over yourself.

[BubbaZanetti]

PMs Gentlemen!

i'd hate to see the tread about Don't Go There have to go to Don't Go There:laugh

[rkasal]

PMs Gentlemen!

i'd hate to see the tread about Don't Go There have to go to Don't Go There:laugh


As we've seen in open forums, people can make up some pretty spectacular things that others, without even reading the posts, jump in on and make fools of themselves. God only knows what imaginary creations would come from PMs.

Type to you all later.

[jdmetzger]

As we've seen in open forums, people can make up some pretty spectacular things that others, without even reading the posts, jump in on and make fools of themselves. God only knows what imaginary creations would come from PMs.

Type to you all later.

:laugh

This has to be one of the funniest things I've read in WEEKS. YOU are complaining about people making up spectacular things about others in an open forum???

Really? :laugh

You must REALLY have a short memory about things you've posted. It's a shame that thread disappeared from the doghouse, but you must remember your wildly misguided "Front and Center" thread?

Pot, meet kettle (again).
http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-****z/pot-kettle-black.jpg

[lamble]

Two people disagree with Randy, two people get "mystery" calls.

First having gone to the trouble of searching out details like my eye colour, my wife's name, the colour of my complexion...it's not too far fetched to believe you haven't come up with a phone number or two is it?

It does seem to follow a pattern as with JD.

I suppose it's a thinly veiled threat that we can be found by you or your friends, this invasion of privacy. What I find remarkable is that it's instigated because your integrity of factual sources is challenged, God only knows what would happen if someone had insulted you.

So Randy, once more may I suggest that if you want to "get even" because you can't answer a simple question about plagarising the Czech President, then you take it back to DGT where it belongs.

No more replies to you in Campfire...oh and the phone company have been requested to keep a record of all in coming calls to me and Mrs L, just in case you persist Private Caller.

[SheRidesABeemer]

What's your opinion on the "Don't go there" forum

I dunno, I don't go there. :p

[PAULBACH]

I dunno, I don't go there. :p

:thumb

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and says don't go there ...

[Visian]

As we've seen in open forums, people can make up some pretty spectacular things that others, without even reading the posts, jump in on and make fools of themselves. God only knows what imaginary creations would come from PMs.

Type to you all later.

randy, i'd like to point out that, with this statement, you have now willfully disregarded two moderation requests. One was sent to you via PM. The second was made publicly here (post #30).

this is warning #3.

lamble: please chill. you really should have continued with the PMs. :bluduh

josh: remember the class you showed when you were called out. please demonstrate it here.

ian

forum liaison

[widebmw]

At one time I posted the forum guidelines and someone told me that we can have an open discussion because we are adults.
We will keep it in it's own topic.
You aren't adults, it's not in it's own topic.
Get it out of the campfire, get rid of DGT.

[lamble]

randy, i'd like to point out that, with this statement, you have now willfully disregarded two moderation requests. One was sent to you via PM. The second was made publicly here (post #30).

this is warning #3.

lamble: please chill. you really should have continued with the PMs. :bluduh

josh: remember the class you showed when you were called out. please demonstrate it here.

ian

forum liaison

Sorry Visian. I apologised immediately to Bubbazanetti, I should have included you in on it.

[jdmetzger]

randy, i'd like to point out that, with this statement, you have now willfully disregarded two moderation requests. One was sent to you via PM. The second was made publicly here (post #30).

this is warning #3.

lamble: please chill. you really should have continued with the PMs. :bluduh

josh: remember the class you showed when you were called out. please demonstrate it here.

ian

forum liaison

mea culpa! I occasionally get caught in the moment, so to speak. On to other topics... How 'bout that F800GS? ;)

[Visian]

How 'bout that F800GS? ;)

i want one! :burnout

[jdmetzger]

i want one! :burnout

Not to hijack the thread, but I sat on one at the Big Gig. I didn't get to RIDE it, but it sure was comfortable. Still, I love the simplicity of my Airheads... if only I could get them with ABS... but I know, Don't go there. See? Back on topic! :laugh

[Oldhway]

While the DGT has had some incredible, to oft recurring, crap, it has also been a considerable insight about some fellow members. I have been impressed with the restraint shown by some (Josh, you are my hero) and the intellect of others on that forum.

On the other hand, if any member goes over the line, (any unsolicited communication outside this forum or web site for instance) because of the discussions here, well that has got to stop immediately. Not to put to fine a point on it but fun is fun and stalking or threatening ain't fun.

The problem is not with the DGT format, the problem is that the rules of civility should not be suspended just because a topic is hot. Any abuse of that, or continuing lack of respect for each other, even in DGT, should get any guilty party bounced from the entire forum.

Let DGT remain, let the hot topics be discussed, but enforce the requirement for civility in DGT like it is enforced elsewhere. The problem isn't DGT, the problem is the abuse of the DGT by individuals. And so that problem should be dealt with on an individual basis.

Just a thought.

Steve

[BradfordBenn]

I love the simplicity of my Airheads... if only I could get them with ABS... but I know,

Talk about contradictions!!!

[tessler]

While the DGT has had some incredible, to oft recurring, crap, it has also been a considerable insight about some fellow members. I have been impressed with the restraint shown by some (Josh, you are my hero) and the intellect of others on that forum.

On the other hand, if any member goes over the line, (any unsolicited communication outside this forum or web site for instance) because of the discussions here, well that has got to stop immediately. Not to put to fine a point on it but fun is fun and stalking or threatening ain't fun.

The problem is not with the DGT format, the problem is that the rules of civility should not be suspended just because a topic is hot. Any abuse of that, or continuing lack of respect for each other, even in DGT, should get any guilty party bounced from the entire forum.

Let DGT remain, let the hot topics be discussed, but enforce the requirement for civility in DGT like it is enforced elsewhere. The problem isn't DGT, the problem is the abuse of the DGT by individuals. And so that problem should be dealt with on an individual basis.

Just a thought.

Steve

+1 Well said, Steve.

[jdmetzger]

Talk about contradictions!!!

I have a feeling the Airheads are currently revoking my membership as I type. :)

I'm really going backwards, in fact. I don't especially trust anything electronic on my bikes (I'm IT, after all) so I'm looking for a beancan points setup from a 79-80 R100. I want to install it on my GSPD to eliminate the hall sensor and make on-road repairs more possible. I'm going for a "world tour" sort of bike. I want to get rid of the stock ignition booster as well and go with a dyna. Then if that would actually fail I could wire around it and still keep riding.

My mind is wandering off-topic, again. It's just that I love bikes. :heart

[Bob_M]

DGT is fun to splash around in from time to time. I compare the experience to a big family reunion with wacky uncles spouting strongly held (but wrong) opinions. It is a lost cause to try to change the mind of said uncles so I don't put much effort toward that goal, but I like to stand up for my beliefs and sometimes I find that it is my opinion that gets changed (Oh who am I kidding)

On the other hand that F800 GS looks real nice!

[jdmetzger]

On the other hand that F800 GS looks real nice!

It IS very nice; And it fits nice, too! Anyone want to buy me one? (I know with all those people around I should have been covering the brake!) ;)

[John Brase]

Children, check.
Militarism, check.
Mudslinging, check.
http://www.hrtc.net/~jbrase/Images/dgt.jpg

John

[knary]

its almost been 2 months since the forum started
and it does have over 2100 posts
so it seems like its being used
for what?? who cares

plus we got a US presidential election this year, i'd keep it

i say it sucks, but until we get a gardenning forum
I'll not go there

Gardening forum... -drool-

Any grand plans for this coming spring?

:lurk

[Mika]

Gardening forum! :laugh
You guys just want a venue to post dirty videos. :lol

[jdmetzger]

Gardening forum! :laugh
You guys just want a venue to post dirty videos. :lol

Gardening, anyone? :D

BTW: This is an actual costume for sale at an online costume shop. I guess there is actually a demand for "sexy gardener". Who knew.

[kbasa]

Gardening forum... -drool-

Any grand plans for this coming spring?

:lurk

Do you know of a good one? :lol3

Anyway, I like that DGT keeps all the debris and toxic threads in one spot. That crap will get in your head and infest every conversation you have. See examples above.

[Hodag]

Gardening forum... -drool-

Any grand plans for this coming spring?

:lurk

a makeover of my postage stamp garden,
and I'm going 100% heirloom seeds, no more hybrids
seed catalogs are already arriving

plus I might try to grow a potato tower
http://www.julie.stuffworld.info/uploads/Image/JuliesKnitting/PotatoTowerDisassembled.JPG


and maybe a shed

and its only janurary

[flgoff]

I was disappointed to see that the poll re: DGT, which was, after all posted in the Campfire, was victim to an overflow of the toxicity of DGT. It is my humble opinion that if, in fact, there are members of this forum who will go to the extent of harrasing other members outside of the forum, then those members should be considered for exclusion. Personal attacks are inapproriate; harassment, in any form, is unacceptable, and the source of those behaviors untenable.

Open discussion, strongly held and expressed beliefs, self held opinions are one thing . . . going beyond that becomes counter productive to the expressed mission of these forums. I personally don't feel that posts from individuals capable of such behavior can be considered as contributions. And that saw cuts both ways.

Floyd

[BradfordBenn]

plus I might try to grow a potato tower



MMMM Fermented and Distilled Potato.....

[username]

a makeover of my postage stamp garden,
and I'm going 100% heirloom seeds, no more hybrids
seed catalogs are already arriving

plus I might try to grow a potato tower
http://www.julie.stuffworld.info/uploads/Image/JuliesKnitting/PotatoTowerDisassembled.JPG


and maybe a shed

and its only janurary

how do you grow a shed?

[Rapid_Roy]

Well, first you need some shed seeds, get 'em started, and give them plenty of sunlight and water.

[Hodag]

Well, first you need some shed seeds, get 'em started, and give them plenty of sunlight and water.


I thought the first step was "get beer".

[Rapid_Roy]

I thought the first step was "get beer".

Yours, yes. Mine is, Get Tequila and a straw.


Mmmmmmmmmm, potato tower.
http://www.sfphotorama.com/uploaded_images/tower_of_fries-755203.jpg

[BradfordBenn]

I thought the first step was "get beer".

Second step, move cooler out to the "construction site"

[tessler]

So the name of this thread is now "Don't Grow There?" :scratch

[Motor31]

No one is forced to go visit it. It supplies an outlet for what would surely get modded in campfire and it is low maintenance. I see no reason for folks who have this intense desire to force others to lose something that is neither illegal, fattening or immoral merely because they don't like it themselves.

If ya don't like it stay away. If ya do like it, play nice. :p

[EXR911]

I enjoyed the one discussion on DGT in which I posted. And found that fact could have a positive bearing on discussion of an otherwise divisive subject. However, it seems to me in looking over a number of other threads, that there is a substantial lack of clear and logical reasoning in the opinions and points being made, discussed and debated. And much of the posting is either in the nature of obvious trolling in order to stir up an argument, or narrow-minded chauvinistic opinion - which is probably alcohol-fueled.

It seems a long way away from the discussion of BMW motorcycles and issues even slightly related to such.

It is probably an unnecessary part of the forum.

PT9766

[Rapid_Roy]

I enjoyed the one discussion on DGT in which I posted. And found that fact could have a positive bearing on discussion of an otherwise divisive subject. However, it seems to me in looking over a number of other threads, that there is a substantial lack of clear and logical reasoning in the opinions and points being made, discussed and debated.
I do see your point.
We can't just ban people from this forum because they aren't clear and logical, otherwise this forum would be made up only of Vulcans.

And much of the posting is either in the nature of obvious trolling in order to stir up an argument, or narrow-minded chauvinistic opinion - which is probably alcohol-fueled.
It seems a long way away from the discussion of BMW motorcycles and issues even slightly related to such.

It is probably an unnecessary part of the forum.

PT9766
I agree with the second part, but when there was no DGT, the threads appeared in the campfire section. Quite frankly, I would quickly become bored if all that was talked about was BMW motorcycles and issues directly related to such.
See your first comment about clear and logical reasoning. These people may think they are being clear and logical, not obviously trolling. Also, people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are narrow minded and chauvinistic. If we do not give them a venue, banning or seeing those types of comments come up in the campfire are the only choices.:dunno

[lamble]

I like Campfire. I like the friendliness of Campfire and the positive attitudes that are displayed.

It is quite clear however that a solely sugar diet isn't as sweet as it sounds.

For those BMW MOA members (because that's what we all are) with an agenda or need to make a less than sweet point, DGT offers a means to an end.

As I look at the current poll, it's almost 2:1 against getting rid of it, and it would be interesting to see how many of those for DGT's erradication have contributed to any of its threads.

I for one, will not be visiting DGT again, but I do see its purpose as being a creditable addition to the overall site...and that despite recent occurances.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Lamble,

Why are you bailing on DGT? I need your help keeing RKASAL in line!

[Rapid_Roy]

Lamble,

Why are you bailing on DGT? I need your help keeing RKASAL in line!
Optimist!:stick :laugh

[JCabranes]

Lamble,

Why are you bailing on DGT? I need your help keeing RKASAL in line!

:ha

:rofl

[Hodag]

IWe can't just ban people from this forum because they aren't clear and logical


:whistle

[Rapid_Roy]

:whistle
Don't think I don't know that! :laugh

[lamble]

Lamble,

Why are you bailing on DGT? I need your help keeing RKASAL in line!

I was reading a book called Monkey Portraits, well looking at the pics actually, and some are apes not monkeys but that aside, there's a picture of a Rhesus Macaque and if you anthropomorphise it, he's deep in thought and meditative...alongside is this:

The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook.
William James.

It struck a note.
I, and anyone else here, can make a choice to be wiser.

If you choose to enter into DGT and converse, then you are just fuelling a need, either your own, or that of the poster of the thread. I don't need to and I'm not supporting anyone else's needs, either directly or indirectly.

Sometimes the sound of silence is deafening.

[Visian]

... Don't go there sucks in shades of gray. :p

thanks everyone for your votes, discussion and valuable thoughts.

here are mine.

as it is right now, the DGT forum does not reflect the values of the BMW MOA
it's pretty clear that many participants did not and still don't understand the purpose of the DGT forum. perhaps that wasn't made clear enough, but two months into the experiment a signficant amount of the discussion does not reflect mature individuals discussing topics in a mature fashion.

the DGT forum was not moderated properly
this is my fault. we had four moderators, now three, and i am one of those three. the other two were waiting for guidance from me and i failed to provide it to them. my strategy was based on a belief in the intrinsically good qualities of BMW MOA members, and i approached the guidance by starting discussions that were of the tone and nature that i felt would be representative of those qualities. this was unsuccessful.

some of the DGT participants are people for whom posting is all about themselves, and who are unpleasant online. while it's clear there's no way to stop them except on a content level, there is no reason at all why there should be a place on the forum for them to spout off more.

the DGT forum has become a hostile environment, especially to women
in all honesty, this observation should be at the top of the list. i've received a number of communications, from members that i deeply respect, saying they feel uncomfortable participating in our forum and that the DGT experiment has only amplified that perception. to me, this is a huge disaster.

DGT is a magnetic drain plug for the lowest common denominator
it was supposed to be a magnetic drain plug for *topics* that would quench the spirit of the campfire. and i am trying to be respectful to all BMW MOA members when i say this, but blatantly trolling partisan threads, gratuitous attempts to goad the moderators, disrespectul commentary about other's opinions (if not exactly outright personal attacks) and willful resistance to moderation guidance is really not what was expected.

But it is what a member of our moderation team, as we weighed the pro's and con's of this forum, predicted:


It's not relevant to the BMW MOA club
It's not what we want new members to see and think of us
There are plenty of other places for it, and for those who want it, we'd be happy to help them find it.


so, as stated upon its inception, DGT is an experiment. right now i see it as being closer to failure than success. the results of the poll (obviously, not statistically valid) seem to indicate a desire by the majority to continue the experiment so we will.... through Super Tuesday.

if it continues in the direction it's currently going, Don't go there will be going... going... gone.

ian

forum liaision

ps => we need volunteers to be DGT moderators during business hours, and are looking for additional moderators to support some other areas of the forum, as well.

pps => volunteers for the forum liaison position are now being accepted.

[26667]

Thank you, Ian. And a well-reasoned good call imho.

[tessler]

Ian,
Thanks for the update/assessment of the experiment.

Unfortunately, I don't foresee anything changing given the vitriolic and malicious nature of some of the regulars (many of you know exactly who I mean).

I don't feel that your last statement should have been conditional. DGT is cancerous and it needs to be excised immediately.

[rkasal]

Ian,
Thanks for the update/assessment of the experiment.

Unfortunately, I don't foresee anything changing given the vitriolic and malicious nature of some of the regulars (many of you know exactly who I mean).

I don't feel that your last statement should have been conditional. DGT is cancerous and it needs to be excised immediately.

Rather hypocritical. But I'm not going to out you Jonathan.

[Visian]

gentlemen, let's NOT go there.

ian

forum liaison

[kreinke]

The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook.
William James.


Was he the same guy that coined the phrase

If you know you're right you can afford to keep quiet.

[rocketman]

... Don't go there sucks in shades of gray. :p

thanks everyone for your votes, discussion and valuable thoughts.

here are mine.

[snipage]

But it is what a member of our moderation team, as we weighed the pro's and con's of this forum, predicted:


It's not relevant to the BMW MOA club
It's not what we want new members to see and think of us
There are plenty of other places for it, and for those who want it, we'd be happy to help them find it.


so, as stated upon its inception, DGT is an experiment. right now i see it as being closer to failure than success. the results of the poll (obviously, not statistically valid) seem to indicate a desire by the majority to continue the experiment so we will.... through Super Tuesday.

if it continues in the direction it's currently going, Don't go there will be going... going... gone.

ian

forum liaision

ps => we need volunteers to be DGT moderators during business hours, and are looking for additional moderators to support some other areas of the forum, as well.

pps => volunteers for the forum liaison position are now being accepted.

While I agree with your assessment of its success/failure my one concern is that if it does go away then those types of posts will resurface in the public areas. I have already seen on another board where several newcomers have expressed concern about joining the organization based on what they saw in similar threads before those boards moved them to a non-public viewing area.

Being confronted by obvious trolls, regardless of how much the poster may have protested that that is not what they were, (I'm sorry but we, as a whole, are just not that stupit that we can't see it for what it is!) is not the experience I would want to here, as many others have stated. Even though one can ignore the content contained within, the title itself is still viewable and that alone can somewhat disheartening/annoying at the very least.

For that reason alone I say let it be, every community has a garbage pile/cesspool to deal with, at least leaving it where it is, puts it behind a door one does not have to open.

RM

[Visian]

For that reason alone I say let it be, every community has a garbage pile/cesspool to deal with, at least leaving it where it is, puts it behind a door one does not have to open.


thank for your thoughts.

the question is: what's better... a cesspool or a more agressive moderation stance where objectionable content is deleted at the discretion of the moderators, with the moderators word *final*?

if most people find that reasonable, but don't like the whole *final* thing, an appeals process might be appropriate.

ian

forum liaison and.... also posting this thought as a member:

[Rapid_Roy]

The thing that bothers me is that the BMWMOA has every right to state this does not meet their values. However, by extension, the individuals that are not getting it, also do not meet their values. By closing this section, yet leaving these individuals as members of the BMWMOA, the problem has not been removed. There is a good chance threads such as those in the DGT will pop up again in the campfire.

The policy should be such that if those topics are verboten, people should be banned from the forum for bringing them up. Maybe not permanently, or with warnings first, but that seems the only choice if BMWMOA wants to protect their values. Quite frankly, in the short time I have been a member, I have seen people complain about almost everything. Nobody will ever be completely happy with this forum, but I understand the need to meet as large an audience as possible.

The photography forum is an example of a whole area of the forum that isn't about BMW motorcycles at all, and is of interest to a percentage of it's members. If enough people complain about it, will it be removed also? Some people felt there was too much talking, some felt it wasn't a problem. What if enough people feel it doesn't have anything to do with BMW motorcycles and shouldn't be here?
I am offended by some things people type here, but one needs a thicker skin on internet forums. This forum has the air of a Gentlemen's and Ladies Country Club, which is enjoyable, and I feel politeness is a big plus.

IMO, much of this will definitely put young people to sleep. If the BMWMOA wants to attract younger riders, they need to examine their values and how they relate to a larger group of young people, or all of them will head to ADVrider, where volatile subjects can still be talked about. I don't see the DGT as a big threat to civilized society, since many people were able to be polite and civilized talking about these issues. I also have noticed the line is fuzzy between personal attacks and poking fun at people. If this forum becomes too rigid and full of rules, nobody will want to post here. This is just my .02.

[lamble]

Unless moderators have a checklist of criteria for exclusion, or movement of a thread to the Doghouse, they'll be open to accusations of bias, to being lenient, or, too strict, probably all three at the same time).

The criteria must be available to, and more importantly, understood, by members.

As it stands, this would be an almost impossible position to put moderators in.

A thread, of itself, is an inanimate object. I agree with Rapid Roy, "By closing this section, yet leaving these individuals as members of the BMWMOA, the problem has not been removed. There is a good chance threads such as those in the DGT will pop up again in the campfire."
It's not the threads, it's the members that post them that need addressing.

DGT will work as originally intended, if not allowed to be abused.
Moderate it based on easily understood and open criteria, so you'll know when you've crossed the line.

Use the star recommendation system in reverse..one black star, watch out,
two, 2 day suspension from site,
three, suspension 5 days off the site.
(Naturally, these are just example numbers)

2nd time offenders (amass 5 black stars) 4 weeks off the site
3rd time (7 stars) bye bye BMW MOA membership.

Of course, if a poster causes offense at a level warranting immediate suspension (as designated by the criteria) this will require the three or four moderators to agree(or a majority?).
BMW MOA banning could be the appeal stage.

Of course, there's grey areas in this that need working through, like what happens during the lapse time until an appeal can be heard (limited access but no posting?)?

I've nicked the idea from the Football Association's carding system. It works for them and the millions of football (soccer) players around the world, so for a few BMWMOA members, it should be a doddle to impliment.

Question: should any penalties apply to the thread originator, or the poster of comments within that thread, or both?

[AZ Greg]

I find the forum refreshing and oftentimes amusing. My only criticism at the forum's inception was its name. I thought "Fight Club" would be more reflective of the topics and sometimes heated discussions, and oftentimes misguided or faulty logic.

I believe that it is but an outlet for our members. Not a place for "touchy feely," politically correct BS. Although BMWMOA was formed to celebrate the camaraderie around a particular brand of motorcycle and the experience of motorcycling in general the membership should not be limited to merely motorcycling.

The photography forum has been instructive, interesting, and fun. Likewise in the DGT forum the banter between several members over various topics have solidified my belief that there is more to this organization than: "What is the best tankbag for my GS?" threads.

Single topic forums are just too boring and lack diversity. (Did I just say diversity?)

[The_Veg]

ps => we need volunteers to be DGT moderators during business hours, and are looking for additional moderators to support some other areas of the forum, as well.

pps => volunteers for the forum liaison position are now being accepted.

Have any official announcements of these vacancies been made, and if so, where may the announcements be seen?

[henzilla]

As a one time poster to DGT...a funny tidbit about Cow Ownership,it was to make light of sillier topics, I'll throw in my .02 worth.
I dislike that a seperate forum area was needed to keep the site as friendly as it has been for me. But in this day & age of instant communication and a loss of face to face contact it was sure to evolve. I look at it to see the daily car wreck instead of seeing it on TV. Not every day, seems to be very random. If I want to spew, I'll go to a site that is more suited or just keep my opinion to myself...for it is only that.
Many times words poked in fun are taken as attacks to certain subsets of this "family" whether it is politics, brand loyalty,airhead/oilhead, even class,gender and gasp...ethnicity/religion have reared their heads......Others spend most of their daily hours just being cranky yipyaps, always ready for another comeback or argument. Their choice to be that way...hope you live a long life my prose spewing brothers. Angry men never do. And for the women of this forum you have offended...shame on y'all,I bet your mom would be proud. Mine raised me to respect women.
I do believe we have a right to say what we want and be heard but never at the expense of others.It has been said over and over it is fine to disagree...that is where most of these threads should stop... If I have to read /listen to rightleftliberalconservativeblahblahblah (which I make daily choices to do or not) I will just NOT GO THERE as the name implies. This seems to get worse every winter and for those of you not getting outside,I am sorry all have to pay the price for cabin fevered craftsman of rhetoric.
I agree if it is removed, the same silly crap will once again find itself in other threads. I would not want the job as moderator, someone will always feel picked on.

I now return to your previous program...Good Day MOA Clubmates...gotta go ride some more

[Motor31]

According to the way I see the vote here there is over 64% of the respondents who did not say it "sucks". In that regard I see the majority saying this is not an problem, yet it seems the minority will prevail here.

What was the point of the forum again, something about allowing members to communicate? It seems that is the case as long as you communicate only that which is "permitted" by the moderators if this is deleted.

I really don't care all that much for the section and I spend very little time there. I voted to keep it as I don't see any harm in it and since there are folks who DO post there, it seems to serve a purpose. No one is forced to go there. No one is forced to read a single post in the section. Yet if it goes away those that do enjoy it will lose a part of the forum they like because of others who did not have to be there imposing their will on others.

What's next, a background investigation for prospective members? :rolleyes

[Motor31]

Pull it, I waste too much time here.


So because you cannot exercise restraint on your internet time others should lose something they enjoy? I must have missed something here but who made you all powerful arbiter of the forum?

[Hodag]

can we change the title of the forum to "Loud Camping"

I've heard much worse discussions at rallys but nobody got kicked out or banned....a warning was given
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/kraus/07campbeers/173431909-L.jpg

[Rapid_Roy]

:laugh
I saw her.

[jdmetzger]

If that is page 97 I wonder what the other 96 complaints were at West Bend ?

I went streaking a few times. I think the husbands were getting mad, as I was drawing their wives attention. :p

[knary]

can we change the title of the forum to "Loud Camping"

I've heard much worse discussions at rallys but nobody got kicked out or banned....a warning was given
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/kraus/07campbeers/173431909-L.jpg

:clap

[From MARS]

Different "campfires" (usually a light of some sort) had different conversations going. I noticed this as I walked aroung the national. When the conversation was about a subject that interested me, I would stand at the edge of the circle and listen in. If the participants invited me in closer to the "fire", I would join in the discussion. I met some really nice people that way.

DGT is one such campfire in our forum gathering. Those of us that do go there, do so for our own reasons. I personally like reading what everybody thinks about everything. As Aristotle said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." While I may not agree with all that is written, much of it does give me food for thought, and DGT is the first forum I checkout when I come to this site just to see who has said what about whatever.

If our conversations are going to be limited to someone posting something followed by a bunch of "I agree" post, then I *will* spend more time over in ADV 'cause I'll be bored to tears. Crying always makes me hungry, therefore, I'll eat more vanilla icecream and get too fat to ride my BMW. DGT contributors are a subset of the club that I find interesting to "listen to".

I have very little interest in photography, but then I don't have to go there when I visit the forums. If the subjects in DGT aren't for you, then DGT, but don't pour water on our campfire just because you don't like what we discuss. Just scroll on by.

FWIW.
Tom

[Motor31]

Just answering a question see Ians first post. You labeled me other wise which I feel now is inappropriate. You sure missed something it must have been post #1.
What say ye ? :ear

Nope I didn't miss the first post at all. I did respond directly to your post in that it was you that gave your inability to manage your internet time as a justification to remove the forum section for others. :type