Is the "GAS" getting worse?

[Polarbear]

Regarding MPG's on my old Airhead R100/7! Seems the gasoline today is not providing the same mpg's as before and I have done extensive carbs work, cleaning, etc to try to improve mine to the previous 42-44 mpg's of yesterday:(. Anybody else here notice? My carbs are pristine, in and out and I have even tried changing the mains to lesser sizes to no avail. Nothing seems to work. I DO notice the mpg's change significantly when traveling around, from region to region of the USA. Sometimes the mileage will rise back into the 40's, but back home in CA., the same old stuff at 35-38 mpg's at best! My engine is surely getting tired, too, but the compression is very strong to this day and it runs sweet as ever. I am a stickler for mpg's however and have always checked my vehicles, bikes at every tankful. My newer BMW's have had the same issue, with injection. Just wondering out loud here:). Thanks, Randy13233 and less "bang" for our buck!:stick

[6659]

Haven't noticed any changes here in the southeast. I still get around 50 mpg on my 1977 R100. Even better iont eh Blue Ridge Parkway. I only get 42-45 on my 1993 R100 and that's been the same for years.

[rgmanley]

Polarbear

As I recall, CA goes to a 'Winter blend' for gas. I think it has less gas and more blended stuff, like MTBE or alcohol. My mileage always declined in the winter months when I used to live there.

Merry Christmas.

[DARRYL CAINEY]

The answer is the 10% Ethanol in most of the gasoline across the US & Canada.
Ethanol dosn't give the same bang as gas!

Darryl

[AZ-J]

Ethanol dosn't give the same bang as gas!

Darryl

Right you are, nor does it give the same MPG as the first post queried. In comparison, it feels like having a tiny bit of water in good gas, but the skies are less noxious.

[PGlaves]

With some risk of being considered a fossil - I still remember fueling at the Clark 100 station - where the 100 was the octane of the gasoline. Now I know that octane and specific energy are not the same, but as a near-fossil I remember that R90S and /6 bikes routinely got 50 mpg when new. Now take a completely freshened /6 and try that most places today and you just won't get the mileage obtainable in 1975. No way, most places, unless you fuel at the airport.

[tommcgee]

Both winter and ethanol give you a gas mileage hit.

[Red100RT]

You think gas is bad now wait until E85 becomes the blend of the day. Not only will your mileage drop like a rock but the price of beer will go through the roof because so much land will be used to grow corn for this joke called E85.:laugh

[flash412]

Replace those 30 year old spark plug caps with some $5 NGK caps. I got 10 mpg economy improvement on my R80G/S when I did that many years ago.

[DarkCloud]

Lead is the answer. It was added to gas during WWII to get more power/mpg out of gas. Naturally, this caused the price of gas to raise. Then in the 80's it was removed from gas which once again caused the price of gas to raise. No substitute was found to replace lead and be "clean fuel".

High test gas has been my choice since it cost 29.9 per gallon. You didn't have the knock unless you were running a real high compression engine. More power, and better gas mileage along with a lower cost of gas per mile plus the engine stayed cleaner. Last fall with the low fuel light on and the reminder bell dinging I pulled into a gas station that was out of high test, so I filled up with mid grade. Next time I filled, I got almost 30mpg, since I filled with high test that tank was back to the usual 26-27 mpg I had been getting. I have that car, a 3.1 GM on mid range getting the better gas mileage.

10% alcohol, some engines can't run on it. My 86 K100RT ran like it had a plugged fuel filter whenever I got some in the tank. I'd get about 64 mph out of it until the system was clear of the contaminated gas. One theory I pondered while slowly watching the countryside go by at 64mph that alcohol was used to evaporate water in gasoline, was the alcohol in my gas absorbing water that may have gotten into the fuel?

[flash412]

Tetra-ethyl lead is a cheap way to raise the octane rating. There are PLENTY of substitutes for lead for raising the octane rating, just not as cheap as lead, but lots less toxic.

[MplsK100RT]

The answer is the 10% Ethanol in most of the gasoline across the US & Canada.
Ethanol dosn't give the same bang as gas!

Darryl

And you have to luv the gunk that garbage puts in the carbs. That's mostly the kind of work we have coming through the shop. Fortunately there are still a few places that sell non-eth around here.

[AZ-J]

Tetra-ethyl lead is a cheap way to raise the octane rating. There are PLENTY of substitutes for lead for raising the octane rating, just not as cheap as lead, but lots less toxic.

Just curious, as I may want to buy some, ow/where does one get T-E lead? Is it sold by itself (where?) or in a product?

[lkchris]

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000320/kitman

[Langzaiguy]

Can't say I trust The Nation an ounce, but an interesting article. I don't think the automakers in the beginning were coniving to poision the population or anything.

I take it lead substitute works good enough?

[osbornk]

The answer is the 10% Ethanol in most of the gasoline across the US & Canada.
Ethanol dosn't give the same bang as gas!

Darryl

I live in the east in the country where I still get 100% gas. I don't notice any difference unless I h ave to gas up in a city where the 10% ethanol is added. California gas is "special" in several ways.

[AZ-J]

Can't say I trust The Nation an ounce, but an interesting article. I don't think the automakers in the beginning were coniving to poision the population or anything.

You could be wrong; the car makers were conniving to maximize profit, and knew lead was poison (its effects were known long before cars), just as distributors of corn for ethanol are now doing to profit from "limited" corn supplies, 7 years after that article appeared, and that article 7 years ago says corn and ethanol were "plentiful" then (see the article on that one).

This is why today food prices are up with gasoline's ; "let's just limit the supply and watch what happens to the prices of that commodity for a while." When all that "R" word discussion comes in 2008 (dare I say "recession?"), isn't it our energy policy at its roots? It is gas and food causing that discussion already now.

Profit for poison, or profit for restricting food supply. Hungry folks see the later, as I see the former.

BTW, my bike gets an easy 50-60 mpg, and I have seen 70 mpg in the cold at altitude during our heat times when we use real gas-but not here now that it is cold, because we use 10% ethanol now, and it trashes my mpg figures.

[fabiox]

You could be wrong; the car makers were conniving to maximize profit, and knew lead was poison (its effects were known long before cars), just as distributors of corn for ethanol are now doing to profit from "limited" corn supplies, 7 years after that article appeared, and that article 7 years ago says corn and ethanol were "plentiful" then (see the article on that one).

This is why today food prices are up with gasoline's ; "let's just limit the supply and watch what happens to the prices of that commodity for a while." When all that "R" word discussion comes in 2008 (dare I say "recession?"), isn't it our energy policy at its roots? It is gas and food causing that discussion already now.

Profit for poison, or profit for restricting food supply. Hungry folks see the later, as I see the former.

BTW, my bike gets an easy 50-60 mpg, and I have seen 70 mpg in the cold at altitude during our heat times when we use real gas-but not here now that it is cold, because we use 10% ethanol now, and it trashes my mpg figures.

Magic !:clap

[lostboy]

To return this thread to it's original question, have you replaced your needle jets and jet needles? These wear out, increasing fuel consumtion.

Lead was initially added to gasoline to raise octane by Charles "Boss Ket" Kettering. Not only was it an excellent anti-knock compound, but shortly after beginning it's use, it was discovered that it dramatically increased exhaust valve and seat life.

[35303]

I have noticed one advantage of ethanol in gas is that the little beads of water seen years ago when inspecting float bowls have disappeared. It picks up water until saturated. Any water picked up will probably lower performance. It seems to me by smell that small engines run a little cleaner with ethanol added.

:fight

[swall]

Lostboy has it right, unlike some of the posters on this thread. Tetraethyllead is added to gasoline to boost the octane--nothing else. Side benefit is that the combustion products of the lead help prevent valve seat recession. Several of Kettering's associates got sick from lead poisening during the experiments, btw.

[StevenRankin]

We have switched to "winter summer" gas here and I think it sucks. I notice my bike GPM is down as well as my van and truck.

I have been chasing the gas mileage problem for a couple of years. Now I realize part of it may be the gas. Going back in my log books for gas mileage on my Chrysler Town and Country as well as my Dodge Ram truck, I have lost 3 to 4 MPG in them since about two years ago at least.

I know the new blended stuff does not last for long in storage. The neighbor left some in a boat tank for a season. Nasty result. St.

[Polarbear]

Well, Thanks for the replies on this one. I began the thread with my worries about mpg's and it seems everybody has the same issue all over the USA, for the most part. Some questions came up however and here is the answer; my carbs have been kept extremely well cleaned up and serviced by me, so I have little doubt they are perfect. I DO add lead substitute, from my local auto parts store(Kragen Auto) in CA., for my concern with the valves receeding. It comes in a concentrate liquid, sold for off roaders use only, but! I just started doing this about 3 months ago and ran the bike lead free for probably 20+ years, with the original valves still in there to this day:). At "several hundred thousand miles" now, the original valves are still providing good service, but I wonder more now just how long a Airhead(R100/7) can run with the original engine parts? I ride it every day about 75 miles to and from work,etc.. Performance is exceptional indeed and I keep riding it, parking the larger K1200LT in my garage,"for sale". So many newer BMW's have come and gone and at my age of 55 now(avg. "moa"guy age), the older ones have caught more of my attention:). I like the Airheads and just wish I could do a bit better in the mpg category, therefore I submit we all have issues with E gas, etc.. CA does have a rather unusual approach to gas modification, throughout the year it seems! Another thing is, SO many folks do not ever even check their mpg's, as i ask lots of folks this querry and the answer is,"I don't know"!!! I figure the majority of drivers never check their mpg's, from my travels encountering all kinds of folks out there. WHY? Its only money and for all of us riding, driving whatever out there, I feel we had better wake up to what we have in our tanks or we will be spoon fed anything coming down the pipelines, like babies, unknowing....Good to see so many here know their bikes mpg's:) Randy13233:banghead :wave

[Kerrymcrider]

True, gas is probably less potent but, hopefully more environmentally friendly. The gain is in mechanical technolgy.

My personal predictor of gas mileage seems to be connected to my right wrist. At age 18 I got less MPG on my R60 than I do on my R1200GS at age 60 +.

Go figure!

Kerry

[rvbeemer]

For the past couple of years, I've noticed all of my vehicles were not getting as good MPG as they once did. I've finally come to the conclusion that it was that they were cutting the gas with ethanol. The bad thing about it is, I live in West Texas, right in the middle of Oil country and can't get straight gas! Oil well!

[AZ-J]

For the past couple of years, I've noticed all of my vehicles were not getting as good MPG as they once did. I've finally come to the conclusion that it was that they were cutting the gas with ethanol. The bad thing about it is, I live in West Texas, right in the middle of Oil country and can't get straight gas! Oil well!

My last few cars and this new '07 BMW have had an instant and average mpg calculator. Here in Phoenix, AZ where we run E-gas Oct 1 to March 1 to keep down "the brown cloud", I have always had a 3-5 mpg loss during that period of time, and this year I find going up and down mountains on the bike (which has the on-board trip computer) makes those numbers even far more dramatic. I can see a steady 45-52 mpg uphill, and a 192 mpg downhill on my instant mpg calculation, and when I get all done, a 55-60 AVERAGE mpg by a few pushes of a button on my left hand grip bezel to toggle the display through TEMP-AVG MPH-AVG MPG-MPG (instant). The gas does suck.

[tarzan]

just curious ..I've been using sea-foam (fuel additive) to clean up my carbs on a 88 100gs i bought in may - had 1150 miles on it/showroom new...any thoughts as to this being a good idea-or no?
thanks

[MplsK100RT]

Seafoam is a nice additive and acts as a stabilizer. Our shop prefers it to Stabil Brand, but we actually use a custom mix of Seafoam and another additive for cleaning carbs that have come in for repairs.

just curious ..I've been using sea-foam (fuel additive) to clean up my carbs on a 88 100gs i bought in may - had 1150 miles on it/showroom new...any thoughts as to this being a good idea-or no?
thanks

[swall]

I've not seen a change. My 90S got mileage in the low '40's way back when. My '78RS gets the same these days. I have heard claims of Air Heads getting over 50mpg; none of 4 I owned ever did. Only difference between gas today and in 1975 was that you could get Sunoco 260 then, as well as Texaco Sky Chief, which were both 96 pump octane. Today 93 is what you find here in the midwest.