BMW Synthetic vs. Mobil 1 Oil

[siman00]

I'm new to the BMW community and this forum, but have a basic question.

Recognizing that the engine oil is used only for the engine (no clutches), is there any reason why I should use the BMW synthetic oil vs. another synthetic such as Mobile 1?

I've used Mobil 1 for years in my car, have had good success in those engines, and it seems that there should be no difference in the bike engine (05 1200 RT with 21K miles).

I don't want to start another oil war, but need to see some advice from long-term BMW owners.

[YELLOW_S]

Ohh no... no... not this! Anything but this!

You've opened up a can of worms!!!!!

Bet this thread is going to be 50 pages long!

[FredRydr]

Ohh no... no... not this! Anything but this!It's his first post, fer chrissake!

Rida: Just do a quick search on oil and those brands in this and the oilhead forums, and you'll see why Yellow cringes. But we are here to share our knowledge (and lack thereof), so welcome to the forum!

Fred
'07 R1200R (uses dino for now @ 11,800 miles)

[twintoaster2]

I have experience with both oils. I used Mobil 1 V-Twin oil on a sportster with good results. I have seen some of the test results on these two brands of oil and I wouldn't hesitate to use either one.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

Ok Noob :stick :rofl :rofl :rofl , you opened up the infernal oil thread thingy but in the spirit of getting along well :hug I'll tell you that there will be many opinions about this without ever resolving this issue satisfactory for everyone.
Having said that IMHO you and your bike will be fine using any oil as long as the specs are within what the owners manual says you can use. FWIW Mobil1 is an excellent oil for the oilheads and many have used this oil including me...
Have fun riding and welcome to the asylum....:dance

[PGlaves]

I'm new to the BMW community and this forum, but have a basic question.

Recognizing that the engine oil is used only for the engine (no clutches), is there any reason why I should use the BMW synthetic oil vs. another synthetic such as Mobile 1?

I've used Mobil 1 for years in my car, have had good success in those engines, and it seems that there should be no difference in the bike engine (05 1200 RT with 21K miles).

I don't want to start another oil war, but need to see some advice from long-term BMW owners.

Fresh clean oil is better than old dirty oil. Some oil is better than no oil. Beyond that you will not get much agreement - and some folks don't even agree with this!

[cjack]

Fresh clean oil is better than old dirty oil. Some oil is better than no oil. Beyond that you will not get much agreement - and some folks don't even agree with this!

"If you need oil...put some in." Mr. Underwood, circa 1974

[Greenwald]

I wouldn't take oil specifically formulated for a motorcycle and put it into my Dodge Ram pickup; therefore, why would I ......................?

[warredon]

I wouldn't take oil specifically formulated for a motorcycle and put it into my Dodge Ram pickup; therefore, why would I ......................?

Mobil 1 does have an oil specifically formulated for motorcycles, that is what I use. Sometimes it is a little hard to find though.

[sfdave]

Here we go again.....

How many threads have there been about oil?

[Andy VH]

No reason, and no gain in using the BMW synthetic oil over Mobil 1. It is simply a marketing tool, nothing less.

I have run Mobil 1 in my 76 R100RS and 94 R1100RS for a combined total of 191,000 miles, and will continue to do so. No reason to change.

[YELLOW_S]

Here we go again.....

How many threads have there been about oil?

Too many! Thats how many!

[PAULBACH]

Unless you are trying to keep up with Nate Kern ...

Fresh clean oil is better than old dirty oil. Some oil is better than no oil. Beyond that you will not get much agreement - and some folks don't even agree with this!
Good Advice

I doubt if most of us get the engine oil so hot on a continual basis that synthetic oil is justified. Change the oil as scheduled by MOM (Motorcycle Owners Manual) and you should be just fine.

[drummer]

This thread just isn't long enough yet so I have to reply. :whistle

Never tried M 1 in my bike, just my cars. I will say I like synth oils, but with the BMW bikes, make sure you have lots of miles on them before using synth oils. I have been told 15K to 25K miles.....

Personally, I like Amsoil better than M1.

[deilenberger]

This thread just isn't long enough yet so I have to reply. :whistle

Never tried M 1 in my bike, just my cars. I will say I like synth oils, but with the BMW bikes, make sure you have lots of miles on them before using synth oils. I have been told 15K to 25K miles.....

Personally, I like Amsoil better than M1.That rule went out with Hexheads.. I switched at 6,000 miles since it stopped using any oil at 3,000.

[BeemerMike]

First, the disclaimer . . . I work for ExxonMobil (although I don't make Mobil 1!).

For my BMW Oilhead, the BMW manual specifies both 20w-50 and 15w-50 as approved oils with no upper temperature limit. I suspect it is the same for the later Hexheads.

I think the significant blend/formulation difference between the Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin "motorcycle" oil and the Mobil 1 15w-50 "automobile" oil is the friction modifiers for use with wet clutches. Depending on what clutch your bike has, this may be important or irrelevant.

You can do your own comparison of the myriad of Mobil 1 oil blends by going here:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Home/Homepage.aspx

In the Houston area Mobil 1 15w-50 retails for around $5.80 in the local auto parts stores, and Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin retails for around $8.80. Hmmmm . . . those Harley V-Twins must really have hot rear cylinders! ;)

Only you can decide if it's worth it (or necessary) to spend the extra $3.00 per quart, or if the extra cost for some other "motorcycle oil" is really needed for your BMW bike.

[PGlaves]

First, the disclaimer . . . I work for ExxonMobil (although I don't make Mobil 1!).

For my BMW Oilhead, the BMW manual specifies both 20w-50 and 15w-50 as approved oils with no upper temperature limit. I suspect it is the same for the later Hexheads.

I think the significant blend/formulation difference between the Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin "motorcycle" oil and the Mobil 1 15w-50 "automobile" oil is the friction modifiers for use with wet clutches. Depending on what clutch your bike has, this may be important or irrelevant.

You can do your own comparison of the myriad of Mobil 1 oil blends by going here:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Home/Homepage.aspx

In the Houston area Mobil 1 15w-50 retails for around $5.80 in the local auto parts stores, and Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin retails for around $8.80. Hmmmm . . . those Harley V-Twins must really have hot rear cylinders! ;)

Only you can decide if it's worth it (or necessary) to spend the extra $3.00 per quart, or if the extra cost for some other "motorcycle oil" is really needed for your BMW bike.

The salient point I noted from the chart is that the Mobil1 V Twin and 4T Racing oils contain twice as much ZDDP (anti-wear additive) as their lower viscosity oils, and 33% more than the "regular" 15w50. AND - they are the only two Mobil1 oils that technically meet the SG or SH spec from BMW. The rest are SM rated oils.

Do the anti-wear additives really matter? How much is enough? My answer is "How good do you want your parachute to be?" The anti-wear additives don't matter much unless the oil film breaks down, which is an abnormal condition. But if it happens, how much protection from metal to metal do you want? How good should your parachute be? Only your engine knows for sure. But BMW specifies a rating which requires more anti-wear additives than allowed by the current API SM rating.

[siman00]

Actually the cost differential is even more. The BMW synthetic sells for about $11 per quart in my part of the world, whereas Mobile 1 is somewhere in the $5-6 per quart. A 50% savings when you ride as much as I do makes a significant difference.

Since the BMW has a dry clutch, the oil is only for the engine, so the "V-Twin" is not necessary (no oil-bathed clutches to deal with).

I've probably seen enough to decide to use a synthetic other than BMW, unless someone has a great reason not to.

Thanks for the responses and I apologize for starting an oil war!

[riderR1150GSAdv]

Thanks for the responses and I apologize for starting an oil war!

Don't worry, we have survived them all..:rofl :rofl :bikes

[BeemerMike]

The salient point I noted from the chart is that the Mobil1 V Twin and 4T Racing oils contain twice as much ZDDP (anti-wear additive) as their lower viscosity oils, and 33% more than the "regular" 15w50. AND - they are the only two Mobil1 oils that technically meet the SG or SH spec from BMW. The rest are SM rated oils.

Paul raises a good point regarding the API specs and anti-wear additives (ZDDP) that I skipped over. I believe that the Mobil 1 15w-50 Extended Performance blend does meet the API SH spec in addition to the SM spec (more ZDDP), while the regular 15w-50 only meets the SJ spec in addition to the SM spec. However, both 15w-50's are formulated for more extreme service than the lower viscosity Mobil 1's. I have not checked the price difference between 15w-50 EP and the regular 15w-50.

If your BMW bike is still under warranty, it is probably a good idea to stay with an official SG/SH-rated oil just to avoid the risk of any "lubrication issues" being raised by the fatherland in the unfortunate event that you have a premature engine failure. However, after the warranty expires, then you'll have to decide whether or not paying a big premium for a "motorcycle" synthetic oil (BMW, Amsoil, Mobil 1 V-Twin, etc.) over a mere 15w-50 "automobile" synthetic oil is like paying extra just to carry a BIGGER gun to a knife fight.

[gened12]

Here we go again.....

How many threads have there been about oil?

Here is my way of ending oil threads:

BMW MOTROCYCLES RUN MUCH BETTER WITH OIL THAN WITHOUT! :doh ;)

Cheers

Denis R1200RT

[gulfcoastbeemer]

If you like above average synthetic oil -- and ever better pyramid marketing schemes -- there is always AMSOIL (MCV) 20W50.

[lostboy]

Ok! Now let's talk about what wax to use.

[1analguy]

Actually the cost differential is even more. The BMW synthetic sells for about $11 per quart in my part of the world, whereas Mobile 1 is somewhere in the $5-6 per quart. A 50% savings when you ride as much as I do makes a significant difference.

Since the BMW has a dry clutch, the oil is only for the engine, so the "V-Twin" is not necessary (no oil-bathed clutches to deal with).

I've probably seen enough to decide to use a synthetic other than BMW, unless someone has a great reason not to.

Thanks for the responses and I apologize for starting an oil war!

A Harley doesn't use the engine oil for the clutch.

The only plain bearings in a current Harley Big Twin are the rocker shafts and the outer cam bearings; everything else is needle, roller, or ball. These bearings hardly require more than a mist of oil to be happy. The only really critical requirement for Harley oil is stability at high temperature (that rear cylinder DOES run quite hot). Hence, the special Mobil 1 V-Twin (this is, specifically, formulated for H-D Big Twins).

The current Hex Head boxers have far more in common with car engines than with H-Ds. That fat, macho oil radiator (oil cooler doesn't adequately describe it) on the RT keeps it's boxer from getting hot enough to require extra-ordinary oil.

BMW's oil, even their dino oil is just whacky-expensive. I can buy Mobil 1 at the local Farm & Fleet for the same price that the local BMW dealer wants for dino oil. Since I've had terrific luck with Mobil 1 for the last 37 years, I'll start using it in the RT when I hit 12,000 miles...

[TGA57589]

Hey Beemer Mike, Thanks for lending your opinion of oils and also coming out about working for Exxon/Mobil. I have worked in heavy industry for many years and it seems it's always been entirely up to purchasing as to what oils we bought for our machinery. Now I'm taking the long way around this but here goes: Where I presently work we buy oodles and I mean oodles of Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil for our coal mills at times using 1 barrel in 24 hours at 2 grand a barrel. I know what synthetic does for industry as far as keeping temps down on problem euipment if not for anything else. Here is the thing I am curious of, I wonder what the voodoo is in the Spectro oil we get from BMW as their MUST BUY oil? I opened the can of worms some time ago about buying Mobil-1 for about $21 a 5 quarter at Walmart. Oh and yes, I also made a crucifiable mistake of even thinking of buying a Mann oil filter and not the BMW store filter.

I'm just asking for someone to step up and mention that they work for Spectro.

I think it's really cool being a consumer knowing that product(s) are labeled differently but packaged on the same manufacturing equipment only to have been marked up for being a specialty product. I live locally to a plant that makes batteries, that being said I have knowledge of what the v-twin guys live and die for that bird thing on the battery. It seems the batteries are no different than one without the bird on it but, you pay extra for the bird.

[jonpierce]

Just to throw another wrench in the works.

I used to work with BMW and the oil delivery truck that came once a week had a synthetic oil on board that could be called Mobil 1, Esso, Shell or BMW equivelant.

Essentially from what I saw all the oils were in fact the same - they came from the same truck!

[flash412]

Here is how BMW "makes" their oil...
1. Buy somebody else's oil.
2. Slap a label on it with a roundel.
3. Add $5 per quart to the price.

I don't buy fluids, light bulbs, fuses, bearings, seals, tires, tubes, nuts or bolts from BMW unless they are unavailable anywhere else.

While you are at the parts counter you might want to purchase some BMW-logo wautah for your BMW-logo hydration bottle. They are running a special, buy two liters for only $7.95 each and get one free.

[deilenberger]

Just to throw another wrench in the works.

I used to work with BMW and the oil delivery truck that came once a week had a synthetic oil on board that could be called Mobil 1, Esso, Shell or BMW equivelant.

Essentially from what I saw all the oils were in fact the same - they came from the same truck!I don't understand - was BMW bottling their own oil? Or do you mean the factory oil fill?

[BeemerMike]

Hey Beemer Mike, Thanks for lending your opinion of oils and also coming out about working for Exxon/Mobil.

Sorry, I lost track of this thread while I was away for the Christmas-New Years holidays.

I don't look at it as "coming out", but just in the interest of full disclosure. ;)

I am trying to find internally what are the official specs on ZDDP content for Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin motorcycle oil, 15w-50 auto oil, and 15w-50 EP auto oil. I am pretty sure the ZDDP content varies across these three grades (as does the price, which of course is why we are even looking at options to Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin). When I find out, I'll post an update. This issue of ZDDP content in oils and valvetrain scuff/wear protection is also an issue for the older two-valve air-cooled Porsche engines, so there are other people looking at this.

[lkchris]

Here is how BMW "makes" their oil...
1. Buy somebody else's oil.
2. Slap a label on it with a roundel.
3. Add $5 per quart to the price.


You know, of course, that BMW North America's oil is Golden Spectro, a company that specializes in motorcycle oil. This oil is not sold in Europe by BMW.

It shows some effort on BMWNA's part to do the right thing.

Worldwide, BMW is closely associated with Castrol and even in car dealerships in the USA stocks German Castrol 10W-60 for M engines.

It rather surprises me there isn't a German Castrol solution for BMW motorcycles available, but it could be that Golden Spectro is cheaper, which is seemingly always important to guilt-ridden motorcyclists.

This is good data, but the best data has yet to emerge in this thread: that is, which BMW motorcycle models require off-normal motor oil. It's probably Airheads these days and some K-bikes with some sort of starter clutch requirement I don't understand. Otherwise, I doubt it's Oilheads/Hexheads and maybe not new K-bikes, either, especially if they have cat converters (which may be as expensive as valve trains). F-bike singles strangely are recommended dino over synthetic and I have no idea about F-bike twins.

Still waiting for good information.

But, as we all know, good information is scarce from BMW and lots of Internet legend rushes in to fill the void.

[BeemerMike]

OK, I'm a little tardy in running this down, but here is the information regarding all of the different grades of Mobil 1 engine oil, especially the ZDDP content.

As you can see, the lower viscosities of Mobil 1 are generally limited to 800 ppm phosphorus (ZDDP) to protect the catalytic converters. The two 15W-50 grades of Mobil 1 (standard and EP) have a phosphorus content of 1200 ppm (and apparently do not have to meet the low-phosphorus requirement). The two "motorcycle" Mobil 1 oils (Racing 4T 10W-40 and V-Twin 20W-50) have a phosphorus content of 1600 ppm. As I recall (although my memory may be faulty), the "experts" say you need more than 1000 ppm phosphorus to protect the BMW motorcycle valve train from excessive wear (and the more the better), but I think 1200 ppm was considered to be more than adequate, especially with the oil change intervals most people use.

15W-50 is an approved viscosity grade for BMW motorcycles. A quart of Mobil 1 15W-50 (standard) is a little less than $6.00 at my local big box stores, and a quart of Mobil 1 15W-50 EP is a little less than $7.00. By comparison, a quart of Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is a little less than $9.00.

Now, I'm not telling anyone what to put in their BMW motorcycle engine, but at least now you have the specs to compare Mobil 1 to your current and/or preferred motorcycle engine oil (assuming the manufacturer provides the specs).

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Home/Homepage.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf This is the chart with the specs.

"Happy Motoring!" :bikes

[reimerdavid]

I use only Mobil One in all of my Cars. My 1996 Honda Civic had over 330,000 miles before giving up the Ghost. As for my 2007 RT I plan to use BMW brand synth. when it reaches 6000 miles, Why?? "I LIKE THE TASTE"

Use any Oil you want as long as you change it often

Dave

[BeemerMike]

As for my 2007 RT I plan to use BMW brand synth. when it reaches 6000 miles

I think the conventional wisdom is to wait until at least 12,000 miles to switch from dino to synthetic.

[Bob1100RTC]

As far as the Dodge Ram goes you can use just about any oil as long as its the correct weight and changed at the correct interval. And no none of you drive according to schedule A.

[cjack]

I think the conventional wisdom is to wait until at least 12,000 miles to switch from dino to synthetic.

I go to synth at the next oil change when I detect no significant oil usage. That to me is what waiting is all about. On our K1200Ses, no oil was used at all from the day one.

[boxerr]

I used Mobil 1 ( racing 4T ) in all my Oilheads (4 of them), no consumption issues.

I currently use it in my F650GS, no issues.

I use mineral 4T Mobil in my Airhead GSPD. No issues there either.

[DocZ]

If I were you, I'd follow Paul Glaves advice and call it a day.
If $$ is a big issue, order the oil in case lots from Bob's BMW, et. al.

[BeemerMike]

If I were you, I'd follow Paul Glaves advice and call it a day. If $$ is a big issue, order the oil in case lots from Bob's BMW, et. al.

If you mean the SG/SH specs, I don't know if these earlier specs REQUIRE a certain amount of anti-wear additives (e.g., ZDDP) or if they ALLOW a certain amount that is higher than the later SM spec allows. Do we know the anti-wear content of BMW's dino and sythetic oils? I am only providing information for people to use or not use.

But I agree with Paul . . . clean oil is better than dirty oil. ;)

[bmwmoose]

I'm new to the BMW community and this forum, but have a basic question.

Recognizing that the engine oil is used only for the engine (no clutches), is there any reason why I should use the BMW synthetic oil vs. another synthetic such as Mobile 1?

I've used Mobil 1 for years in my car, have had good success in those engines, and it seems that there should be no difference in the bike engine (05 1200 RT with 21K miles).

I don't want to start another oil war, but need to see some advice from long-term BMW owners.

I would like to end the Great Debate. Please everyone read, print out and give to all your riding buddies, the following .pdf file.
//http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

I have never seen this kind of info from any other Synthetic Manufacturer and you probably won't. Read and understand the data and the results.

My 02 RT-P was dealer serviced with Amsoil Synthetics :usa and I have looked at the complete service history and no engine, trans or final drive failures ever. It was used as a Sheriff duty bike from new to 83K, beat on by a Harley rider to 91 k where I bought it. Bike now has 106K still reads good compression even when cold per Clymers' manual specs.

[Rpbump]

I went to PEP BOY's and bought LUCAS 20w-50 synthetic oil for my Sportster. Compared to standard 20w-50 oil the synthetic runs 10deg cooler. Once my CLC is out of warantee
I will use LUCAS synthetic in the engine and a synthetic in the rear drive assembly. The Lucas costs' right at $5.00 per qt.;)

[BeemerMike]

I would like to end the Great Debate. Please everyone read, print out and give to all your riding buddies, the following .pdf file.
//http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

I have never seen this kind of info from any other Synthetic Manufacturer and you probably won't. Read and understand the data and the results.

End the Great Debate? :rolleyes I don't wish to appear overly cynical (or self-interested), but a study where the protocol was set up by Amsoil (although performed by an independent lab) concludes that Amsoil is the "best" oil (although I would note that Mobil 1 came in a close second) ends the debate? I'm shocked . . . shocked at the result! :eek

The important question is whether the tests performed in the Amsoil study (and I have read it) are the best tests to indicate real-world performance in YOUR engine, transmission, or FD. Some oil/lubricant manufacturers claim there are other tests (such as long-term engine operation durability tests, which are a LOT more expensive to perform than a four-ball test) that are better indicators of protection.

Who is right? I don't know. But, before you pay a big premium for an oil such as Amsoil, you should at least think about it. One thing I do know is that Mobil 1 is used in a lot of racing applications and is the factory fill in a lot of high-performance cars. Yes, I'm sure there is "money changing hands", but I don't think McLaren-Mecedes F1 is going to put an inferior oil in their 19,200 rpm engines, or that Porsche is going to put it in all of their engines if they did not have at least a little confidence in the oil, just to get a couple of bucks from ExxonMobil.

[bmwmoose]

End the Great Debate? :rolleyes I don't wish to appear overly cynical (or self-interested), but a study where the protocol was set up by Amsoil (although performed by an independent lab) concludes that Amsoil is the "best" oil (although I would note that Mobil 1 came in a close second) ends the debate? I'm shocked . . . shocked at the result! :eek

The important question is whether the tests performed in the Amsoil study (and I have read it) are the best tests to indicate real-world performance in YOUR engine, transmission, or FD. Some oil/lubricant manufacturers claim there are other tests (such as long-term engine operation durability tests, which are a LOT more expensive to perform than a four-ball test) that are better indicators of protection.

Who is right? I don't know. But, before you pay a big premium for an oil such as Amsoil, you should at least think about it. One thing I do know is that Mobil 1 is used in a lot of racing applications and is the factory fill in a lot of high-performance cars. Yes, I'm sure there is "money changing hands", but I don't think McLaren-Mecedes F1 is going to put an inferior oil in their 19,200 rpm engines, or that Porsche is going to put it in all of their engines if they did not have at least a little confidence in the oil, just to get a couple of bucks from ExxonMobil.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for reading the study. I think it's amaizing how personally people take the question of what oil is best. I frankly like Mobil1 and have thought of switching for cost sake, but based on my interpretation of the results, I'm lead to believe that Amsoil motorcycle oils are the best. What I was hoping people would do is read the study and take an objective view of the oils and learn from the data and the tests, which oils they might want to use and which ones not to. I think this study gives people the ability to make their own decision in a somewhat educated fashion, rather than just going by what someone else says.

As for Amsoil's motivation, and considering that there are different tests out there, what study, poll, exam can't be scewed to show some kind of intended result. If one reads the study, they would see that Amsoil did not top the list in every category, some they explained the different importances of, but they did not or could not scew the tests to make their oil top the list in every category. It seams to me that with some of the results, some Synthetic Oil makers would be scared to have such a test done. Does Amsoil formulate their oils to be the best or just to appear the best? You mentioned other tests about the longevity of oils, I feel based on other tests (oxidation & acid neutralization for example) in the study, not just the 4 ball test, that Amsoil would do fine in any longevity test. Of course Motorcycle oils, are not formulated for longevity as say Shell's Rotella, this kind of longevity is mostly important to the trucking industry and not so much the motorcycle market. I have yet to see the kind of filtration on a motorcycle that would permit oil to be used for the kind of duration that the trucking industry gets out of their oil. Thus being apples and oranges.

Please everyone be objective and read and understand the data then make your own choice! Maybe I sounded a little arrogant, but I believe in Amsoil for my own reasons, and I did my own research, minus the funds for my own expesive study and years of chemistry education. To date, I have not seen a more complete study that shows actual data from industry recognized tests. I have seen other Synthetic Oil makers websites where their only technical data they list, states that it lowers the engines temp by x number of degrees. Personally I'm more concerned about an oils ability to stand up to what ever temp the engine and conditions create, without causing damage to the engine.

After re-examining the data and results, I would say that both Mobil 1 and BMW synthetic are good respectable oils and my statement of "Neither" was once again arrogant.

Good luck all in finding what you personally believe to be the best, I just hope it's based on something other than how COOL a product they make themselves out to be, for your bikes sake and yours, considering you don't have much protection out there.

[rmeisen]

Uh... Guys... Uh.. Not picking on Mobil 1 or any brand, but I've been told by a few reliable sources that BMW recommends Castrol worldwide except for the USA. Not sure why but it seems to be Amsoil only in North America. (Can you find Amsoil easily in the third world?) Many BMW Motorcycle Dealers (especially multi-brand shops) in the US use Castrol Dino (from 55 Gallon Drums) in everything. I gotta agree with the guys about 'clean' and 'some' begin better than 'dirty' and 'none'...

Ron

[BeemerMike]

Thanks for reading the study. I think it's amaizing how personally people take the question of what oil is best.

I have a friend who SWEARS by Amsoil for his motorycles, and he sent me an e-copy of the Amsoil study last year. The Amsoil study does have lots of good data and information. The point I was making is that there is other information out there too that should also be considered. I am sure that Amsoil is a fine oil, but you pay a premium for it over Mobil 1, so you have to decide if it is worth it. I agree that there are a lot of people out there who defend to the death an oil that they have almost no data about. :rolleyes

It's kind of funny . . . we have several threads where people are trying to find the perfect $2 oil filter . . . and then others where people praise $12 engine oil. Me . . . I'm running BMW (Mahle) oil filters and Mobil 1 engine oil and gear lubricants. ;)

[revkev]

I put in the type and brand of oil the dealer says should be put in.

I have it changed when they say it should be changed.

I pay them to put the oil in because I don't like oil on my hands.

I tend to have the oil changed sooner rather than later.

This has worked for me for many years with many fine vehicles running for hundreds of thousands of miles.

I know absolutely nothing about oil, other than a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it, which can make for some interesting reading.

[BeemerMike]

I pay them to put the oil in because I don't like oil on my hands.

I don't like it either. Latex gloves. ;)

Some people just like to maintain their own bike(s) for the things they can do.

[rocketman]

You know, of course, that BMW North America's oil is Golden Spectro, a company that specializes in motorcycle oil. This oil is not sold in Europe by BMW.

It shows some effort on BMWNA's part to do the right thing.

Worldwide, BMW is closely associated with Castrol and even in car dealerships in the USA stocks German Castrol 10W-60 for M engines.

It rather surprises me there isn't a German Castrol solution for BMW motorcycles available, but it could be that Golden Spectro is cheaper, which is seemingly always important to guilt-ridden motorcyclists.

This is good data, but the best data has yet to emerge in this thread: that is, which BMW motorcycle models require off-normal motor oil. It's probably Airheads these days and some K-bikes with some sort of starter clutch requirement I don't understand. Otherwise, I doubt it's Oilheads/Hexheads and maybe not new K-bikes, either, especially if they have cat converters (which may be as expensive as valve trains). F-bike singles strangely are recommended dino over synthetic and I have no idea about F-bike twins.

Still waiting for good information.

But, as we all know, good information is scarce from BMW and lots of Internet legend rushes in to fill the void.

Hah! I knew it! I've been using Castrol GTX in my machines since 1970 and have never had an oil related problem in any of them, got 175K on the airhead and 60K on the LT (my current machines).
but then I also use Castrol Air in my tires,
Castrol water and anti-freeze in the LT,
I live in a Castrol house
and eat only Castrol food stuffs (which I buy at the......



you guessed it, Castrol Market)....

I live in a Castrol house in a town built by Castrol
and I work for Castrol and my bosses last name is.......


are ready for this?.......


Carter.... (til he got fired for not changing his name)....

some people say I'm a little fanatical about Castrol,


can't understand why myself.....


RM

[BeemerMike]

I've been using Castrol GTX in my machines since 1970 and have never had an oil related problem in any of them . . . some people say I'm a little fanatical about Castrol

So, do you know who makes the basestock oil (the part before the additives are put in) in your beloved Castrol GTX? ;)

[BuddingGeezer]

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

[rmeisen]

Granted, this is not yer-basic-automobile-Castrol-oil, but it covers all the specs...



Castrol Act Evo X–Tra —
Features:

Premium 4–stroke motorcycle engine oil
SAE 10W–30, 10W–40, 20W–40, and 20W–50 grades
Exceeds API SG, JASO MA2

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021706&contentId=7040549

[BeemerMike]

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

The underlying issue behind the SG/SH/SJ/SM discussion is apparently the ZDDP content of the oil. Not all SJ/SM oils have 800 ppm ZDDP contents. Although clearly it would be "safer" from a BMW "after-the-warranty" warranty standpoint to just always put BMW oil in our BMW motorcycles, on the other hand if we always followed BMW's guidance to the letter we would never lube the splines on BMW motorycles, would change the engine oil in BMW cars about every 15,000 miles or so, and would never change the manual transmission or differential gear oil in BMW cars at all. ;)

[rocketman]

So, do you know who makes the basestock oil (the part before the additives are put in) in your beloved Castrol GTX? ;)

well first off I was mostly just kidding around (in case you couldn't tell) and as to who makes the base oil, should I care? (assuming its not made by baby killers or something) I'm quite sure that engine oil is like gas, the same product is sold under any number of brand names. Oh, and I don't always use Castrol since its not always available in some of the more rural locations I often find myself in; and its not my "beloved" either, that's reserved for my SO! :lol

RM

[rocketman]

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

Gee, my 30 year old bike isn't covered for warranty work cause I use Castrol? I'm devastated! :lol

RM

[TGA57589]

I'm quite sure BMW would never use a product that would be harmful to the engines on any of their machines they sell. The thing is today so many products are really so well reifned in research and development that they may even be over engineered.

We buy these BMW motorcycles for many reasons I, for one have bought 2 of them so far because I don't want to have to work on them. I want to ride my machine just like it is any other form of transportation. I don't like to polish or wax very much, I just want to ride. I can appreciate the riders who treat their machines like a street rod all polished and pretty but, I still want to ride in all weather.

I got the oil/filter thing going before because of how I look at the whole subject. BMW has built a trmendous machine here that is capable of taking alot of abuse and day to day use. We live in a time where evrything has been invented to make our lives easier and most everything in this arena has been engineered very well. When it comes to any product be it peanut butter or even our beloved oil, some makes it and packages it. We all work for someone and many of us have or do work for a company that packages one item in many packages for multiple customers that will be sold at different prices although it's the same. Oil is no exception to that rule and IF we had someone who works for Spectro that stands next to the filling machine telling us that absolutely no other oil is packaged in the BMW bottles but BMW then they have something. But I'm still not convinced it requires such special attention as good as some oil products are today to use BMW only oil.

As I've said before I work in heavy industry and we have abused the $&it out of oil for years and it makes me have faith that the oils today are so good there isn't much reason to pay $11-12 a quart for it. I don't do it for my truck and car so why would I do it for my BMW machine?

[BuddingGeezer]

Gee, my 30 year old bike isn't covered for warranty work cause I use Castrol? I'm devastated! :lol

RM

Everyone wants to be a comedian. I was only giving actual info about the oil requirements to those who would like to know. I don't give a crap what kind of oil you run.

Ralph Sims