09 Site Idea

[Rollifahrer]

Has the possiblity of holding a rally at a motor-speedway ever been discussed?

Since BMW Mottorrad is targeting younger riders and riders who want faster bikes, would it make sense to hold a future rally at a motor-speedway? I was at an AMA sanctioned event at the one in St. Louis a few years ago, I think it's called Gateway.

What would a motor-speedway offer: limited infield camping, more than enough paved parking, more than adequate concession and toilet facilities, a race track, a closed road course, room for training courses, stunt riding demo area, could bring in dirt for a moto course, lots of hotels nearby...traffic/crowd control devices, lighting for night events, effective PA system...

What might one not offer: indoor vendor space, enough grass for camping, seminar rooms...

Who might attend: all the regulars, members who mainly want to get on a track or road course, locals riders who just want to check out the action and/or test ride a beemer...

I'm not saying St Louis is the ideal location, but there are a lot of such facilities all through NASCAR country, and several elsewhere.

Just an idea.

[HiFiGuy]

Not a bad idea but seems like the difference between creating an event for the club and creating an event to attract outside attention. A fine line to walk for the club.

[tessler]

Has the possiblity of hold a rally at a motor-speedway ever been discussed?

Since BMW Mottorrad is targeting younger riders and riders who want faster bikes, would it make sense to hold a future rally at a motor-speedway? I was at an AMA sanctioned event at the one in St. Louis a few years ago, I think it's called Gateway.

What would a motor-speedway offer: limited infield camping, more than enough paved parking, more than adequate concession and toilet facilities, a race track, a closed road course, room for training courses, stunt riding demo area, could bring in dirt for a moto course, lots of hotels nearby...traffic/crowd control devices, lighting for night events, effective PA system...

What might one not offer: indoor vendor space, enough grass for camping, seminar rooms...

Who might attend: all the regulars, members who mainly want to get on a track or road course, locals riders who just want to check out the action and/or test ride a beemer...

I'm not saying St Louis is the ideal location, but there are a lot of such facilities all through NASCAR country, and several elsewhere.

Just an idea.Hi, Rick. That's an interesting idea, however, as in the other threads concerning the complex diversity of members' interests, it seems partial to riders and participants who might be inclined towards track events and speedway-based sports in the first place.

Not that there is absolutely *anything* wrong with it, but I personally have no interest in that form of motor sports and would be as hard pressed to show up at a track-side rally as I would at a rally that was canted towards off-roading or another area of special interest within the broader world of BMW motorcycling.

I believe one of the attractive features of the current MOA rally format is it's appeal to a broad and diverse group of admirers and owners of the marque who simply want a temporary, secure and private venue in which to meet, greet, catchup and hangout with each other. :)

[kbasa]

I'd like to see a site with access to a track. Not necessarily on site, but nearby.

Think of how much fun it would be take a track school during the rally.

[osbornk]

Some of us suggested a NASCAR track previously and were greeted with silence. I thought the garages would make good places for vendors and seminars. I thought a large track would have plenty of room for camping in the infield with excellent security. There would be plenty of motels and restaurants nearby. The stands would mnake an excellent place to have closing ceremonies with the hugh screens so everyone could easily see the ceremonies. I thought it would be a good place to have one without using the track for anything. Many are now near large population centers with good road access. I think the track owners would be agreeable to working out something to attract more attention to their tracks and have a use for them for the majority of time they are not in use. There are even some tracks that have closed or do not have a NASCAR event that would work. Isn't there a track in Kentucky that wants a NASCAR race and needs the positive publicity?

[Rapid_Roy]

I think it's a cool idea, but I also have no interest in racing on a track. I have been coming to Nationals for 25 years. If it was based on a track and racing, I would go elsewhere. I wouldn't complain, others may have a major interest in doing that.

[Rapid_Roy]

I'd like to see a site with access to a track. Not necessarily on site, but nearby.

Think of how much fun it would be take a track school during the rally.
That also wouldn't stop me from going. We can still see everybody and socialize at night. That might get more members attending. Once they find out how freakin' fun Nationals are, they might not even complain about where they are at.

[smilingcouple]

That also wouldn't stop me from going. We can still see everybody and socialize at night. That might get more members attending. Once they find out how freakin' fun Nationals are, they might not even complain about where they are at.

More wives would be comming to the event because you could plug up the camper or motorhome. Just schedule a ride each day of the rally and all would be happy.

:dance

[Rollifahrer]

I didn't mean track based as much as track available.

The Rally Committe would dictate how much time and effort would go into managing the track events, and of course the hours permitted. (Gotta wonder if that's a potential marketing medium BMW NA might embrace and fund/manage.)

It may well detract from some aspects of the rally or alter their form(the price of change and growth), but I'm not suggesting any be eliminated.

If it happened in the Carolinas, think about side trips to the factory...too much like Honda Homecoming?

[tkpinsc]

The RA already did it at Barber Motersports Park in Alabama in a spectactular manner!

[osbornk]

The RA already did it at Barber Motersports Park in Alabama in a spectactular manner!

I was there and thought it was great. I had no desire to get on the track and make a fool of myself but I really enjoyed sitting on the hill at my camper and watching others do so. The race track made sure the track participants were properly equipped and could handle their track time. It was the most enjoyable rally I have ever been to.

While there, we rode over to the Talledega NASCAR track and took a tour. On the way, we stopped at one of the little backwoods restaurants and had a wonderful locally grown catfish meal. One of my riding buddies drove in the first NASCAR race ever at the track (The regular drivers boycotted the race because they felt the tires were unsafe). The drivers of what is now known as the Busch series were invited to race to fill the field.

[Holly]

Didn't we have a track day at the Trenton National about 5 years ago?

Holly

[jasonTDI]

Some of us suggested a NASCAR track previously and were greeted with silence. I thought the garages would make good places for vendors and seminars. I thought a large track would have plenty of room for camping in the infield with excellent security. There would be plenty of motels and restaurants nearby. The stands would mnake an excellent place to have closing ceremonies with the hugh screens so everyone could easily see the ceremonies. I thought it would be a good place to have one without using the track for anything. Many are now near large population centers with good road access. I think the track owners would be agreeable to working out something to attract more attention to their tracks and have a use for them for the majority of time they are not in use. There are even some tracks that have closed or do not have a NASCAR event that would work. Isn't there a track in Kentucky that wants a NASCAR race and needs the positive publicity?

A close friend is a paramedic at that track. They Are booked almost every weekend.

Plus tracks are extremely expensive to rent and the insurance is SILLY!

[BubbaZanetti]

Plus tracks are extremely expensive to rent and the insurance is SILLY!

this was my first though, exorbitant rental rates. i like the idea of riding a track at a rally. i've stayed away from track days thusfar due to expense. if there were some way to rent one with free access for rally goers without an insane expenses incurred, i think it's a pretty good idea. i'd even pay more to attend the rally for sure.

[Rollifahrer]

Maybe the added cost could be covered by charging an extra fee to participate in track events (not just go-fast, could also use closed road course at some tracks, and offer training). What if BMW NA was involved? Bring in Nate Kern or other team members, watch him/them run a few hot laps, sign autographs, kick back at the beer tent later. There has got to be marketing value there somewhere. And if it matches up with any of their marketing objectives, they might be willing to pay.

What does a normal facility cost? Consider the difference, not the total. I don't think members who enjoy the rally as is should have to pay more for changes they wouldn't use.

No need to trample* tradition to embrace the future. If MOA takes positive steps to include BMW's "new" target demograhpic, won't that incease MOA's "cred" with BMW brass and a build stronger realationship?

(Trample and thoughtfully alter are two different things)

Are there any speedways that have adjacent camping for rally and foot or shuttle access to track?



Just thinking out loud...so to speak.

[Visian]

i have actually nosed around.... no shortage of grass, a tad short on exhibit space, potential issues with beer, in terms of not being able to sell it ourselves.

i've had it on my list to get some clarifications about the facility (http://www.talladegasuperspeedway.com/track_info/about_talladega/).

the riding around this area is very nice... but it is a tad hot in july.

http://www.visian.nu/images/talladega.jpg

ian

[The_Veg]

Track days are nice but I'd avoid NASCAR tracks since you only get to turn one way.

[Visian]

Track days are nice but I'd avoid NASCAR tracks since you only get to turn one way.

check out the road course in the middle of talladega....

[Rollifahrer]

I agree with the Veg, Gateway had a road course that only ran on one turn of the banked track for a short way.

Couldn't tell from Visian's google shot whether Taladega has a road course, but using such a facility would create a lot of options.

As far as cost: the thing at Gateway was an AMA sanctioned amatuer racing league. I doubt there were more than a hundred bikes. Somehow they pulled it off.

I'm not an expert, but I would guess that since the places sit empty 11 months of the year, they are open to ways to pay for lights and security, etc., by renting space to moto-oriented groups.

It would be a shame if the beer sales issue killed the idea dead in its tracks without thorough discussion. Would letting the contract vendor sell beer in the beer tent change that experience, other than maybe the cost?

Is it worth changing that particular site selection paramater in exchange for the possibility of attracting a younger demographic to the MOA experience? A demographic that could benefit greatly from mingling with ...um...seasoned riders. Living proof that not doing stupid stuff and riding multiple hundreds of thousands of miles over 30 or 40 or 50 years is a good thing. Who are their role models otherwise? The guys doing stupid stuff on the streets, I guess.

I've only been to one big rally, and to be honest, I see why it's a great thing for those who attend, but percieved as boring to younger riders. But why should we worry about them? Because, if we don't make them a part of us, there might not be any us in..., well can't predict a timeframe, but the times are changing and seminars, camping and beer don't provide the dazzle that fast bikes, stunt-riding, pretty girls and the chance to ride fast and do stunts in a safe place offer.

I don't know how to get there, but I think it's a good place to go.

[PGlaves]

Has the possiblity of hold a rally at a motor-speedway ever been discussed?

Since BMW Mottorrad is targeting younger riders and riders who want faster bikes, would it make sense to hold a future rally at a motor-speedway? I was at an AMA sanctioned event at the one in St. Louis a few years ago, I think it's called Gateway.

What would a motor-speedway offer: limited infield camping, more than enough paved parking, more than adequate concession and toilet facilities, a race track, a closed road course, room for training courses, stunt riding demo area, could bring in dirt for a moto course, lots of hotels nearby...traffic/crowd control devices, lighting for night events, effective PA system...

What might one not offer: indoor vendor space, enough grass for camping, seminar rooms...

Who might attend: all the regulars, members who mainly want to get on a track or road course, locals riders who just want to check out the action and/or test ride a beemer...

I'm not saying St Louis is the ideal location, but there are a lot of such facilities all through NASCAR country, and several elsewhere.

Just an idea.

And a great idea. So great in fact MOA did it in 1986 - then called Laguna Seca not far from Monterey, California. Good enough an idea we ought to do it again.

[Rapid_Roy]

How about Road America?
Plenty of Camping, they have Motorcycle Races, a Motorcycle School, and there was 2 weekends open in July.
Mmmmm curves.
http://www.corvetteracing.com/tracks/trk_img/roadamerica/roadamerica.jpg

[Rollifahrer]

I also raced my scooter at Road America. The smaller road course we used had elevation changes to go with the curves. (Might have been a kart track. They work OK with scooters, but not real(?) motorcycles.

The big course had a vintage roadster event going on at the same time.

One of the best weekends I ever had.

[Sue]

We did look at Road America as a potential site. Unfortunately, they have no buildings the size and scope to accomodate the needs of our vendors and seminars.

[PGlaves]

I'll take a paddock garage for my seminars over a sheep shed any day of the week.

[Rollifahrer]

Could a shortage of indoor space not be supplimented with tents?

[Visian]

Could a shortage of indoor space not be supplimented with tents?

yes, but the budget goes way up, especially if you want a/c.

[Rollifahrer]

I contacted MaahaffeyFabric Structures in memphis TN about pricing on "temporary buildings". I don't know the real requirement, but used 10,000 sf as a starting point. Before I give you the ball park price I was quoted, please look at their product: http://www.fabricstructures.com/products/index.asp.

Assuming 8000 people (pay to) attend, and there were no other budget monies to move around, the cost would add as little as $2.00 per registration.

I think it's fair to ask: Is it worth $2.00 per person for volunteer presenters to not have to compete with sheep stink? AND provide the opportunity to offer motorcycle riding activities on-site or adjacent?

No reflection on Visian, but in my experience, budgets reflect priorities.

I'm afraid asking the next question will put me too close to taking a spot on a soap box.

Offered in the spirit of continuing the discussion,

Rick Swauger

[asciabarrasi]

Went to the AMA Vintage M/C days last July at Mid-Ohio and it was awesome. That facility has the space, road and motocross courses, buildings and quite the support staff. It would be worth looking in to.

[Visian]

... Mid-Ohio ...

i love that place. we'd def. have to have tents there.

i went to vintage days a few years ago when bmw was the featured marque. my most salient memory was watching a presentation by bmw mobile tradition... we were crammed into an impossibly small room in the timing tower, and it was fetid inside.

they do have some barns, and there is always the buildings on pit road, but we'd need tents for vendor exhibits for sure.

ian

(to the point above about the MaahaffeyFabric Structures, our current requirement for exhibit space is 50,000 sq. ft. and that does not include the beer garden)

[SheRidesABeemer]

Plenty of room at Altamont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Free_Concert) Speedway :eek

http://www.elivermore.com/photos/History_Lvr/lhg0299w.jpg

[Rollifahrer]

I never thought about Mid Ohio. It's only 40 minutes from my house, but I've never been there.

Count me in as a volunteer, or local point man. I have space at my place for anyone who might need to come check out Mid Ohio. I have four extra beds, sofas and floor space for indoor camping, and a meeting table for up to 12.

50,000 sf: The "fabric buildings" would be used to make up the difference between what a site can offer and what Selection Committee guidelines require.

Worse case: Assuming the beer tent already has its own well established place in the budget, even renting 50,000 sf of portable indoor space (traditional tents would no doubt be cheaper than the Fabric Structures noted above) would increase the rally fee by no more than $10.00. Cost/benefit question. Possibly moot if Mid Ohio has enough of what the guidelines call for for 09, but will no doubt need to be confronted some day.

When this winter storm goes away, I'll go up and look around and get more info about Mid Ohio.

What I do know: It's in a rolling hills area of Ohio, not far from what we flatlanders consider "ski slopes". It's about an hour and a half from the AMA Museum, which is less than an hour from the Hocking Hills Region (Mini-Smokie Mtns with state parks featuring very cool rock formations from the glaciers. They had GW back then, too!). An hour and a half or so from Lake Erie, the Erie Islands, and the R&R Hall of Fame in...sorry just can't bring myself to give props to that city on the lake!

With my sleeves rolled up in Columbus...


Rick Swauger

[lkchris]

The RA already did it at Barber Motersports Park in Alabama in a spectactular manner!

MOA has already done it, too.

Laguna Seca, 1986.

[nplenzick]

I think the idea of using a race track is great all though it could be on the $$$$$ side. I use to be involved in PCA (Porsche Club of America) a few years ago. To rent a track like Watkins Glen ( which would be a great place for a national) the price I think was 30k for three days. I'm sure it's more today. Then again they have a wine festival there and I can't believe they pay that price.....of course no on track activities with that! There is also a very long waiting list to rent some of the nicer tracks. There's a new track (road course) being built right now in southern New Jersey. It opens next July......it's already booked for 2008.

[osbornk]

MOA has already done it, too.

Laguna Seca, 1986.

21+ years ago is a very long time ago. Barber's was in this century. How many members attended at that time? I suspect the attendance would be near what the RA attendance is now. That makes venues much easier to find.

[Friedle]

The MOA also had a wonderful track Day as part of the Trenton, ON Rally at the Shannonville track. Lots of fun for many different classes of riders, bikes and abilities. I even got to take a few laps with my sidecar hauling around a Speedvision cameraman filming a bunch of Sled Dogs mixing it up with a few of the BMW NA ride leaders. I'll leave it to a few other Dogs to telll you about how the last corner turned out....but it is on film somewhere. :thumb

Friedle
3 wheel Sled Dog

[lkchris]

21+ years ago is a very long time ago.

Seems like yesterday to me.

I still have the same motorcycle I rode to that rally.

[atoms]

...
It would be a shame if the beer sales issue killed the idea dead in its tracks without thorough discussion. Would letting the contract vendor sell beer in the beer tent change that experience, other than maybe the cost?
....

The beer tent should be considered sacred. The traditions are part of what makes the Nationals so exceedingly great.

1. we serve each other - it is hugely better that way - Makes it more of a party as opposed to a commercial event.
2. the prices are reasonable - and this is not just about money - feeling ripped off as one can at a commercial event lessens the experience
3. the selections are regional - contract vendors tend to just sell corporate swill.

I like the idea of having a Track Day like experience available on-site, but if it will destroy our beer tent tradition, then I say Dead in its Tracks! Dead!

[Flyer5]

How about Pocono Raceway in PA . Nice area . Dave