Radar detector for the thrifty?

[knary]

Trying to explain to my wife why I need a radar detector has been an uphill battle. How do you argue with, "Why don't you just slow down?" "Because I can't" just doesn't go very far.

So I'm left getting one for myself. Happily, I can, slowly, accumulate a small pile of cash that I can spend on whatever I want (we each get an allowance - the answer to all budgetary whining). I can't afford a Valentine.

What's the next best choice? the Escort 8500 seems to take this prize (though some like it more than the valentine. At around $300 it's getting closer to my price range.

What's the next best choice cheaper than that one? Bel Vector 985?

At some point, someone will start in on the "it's a false economy", but if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Right?

[dlearl476]

There is only ONE detector worth paying ANY money for, the V1.
The price difference is going to be about 10% of what the ticket you get because you've been lulled into a false sense of by cheap detector. The REAR facing radar (only found on a V1) is everybit as important as the front one. And the "Bogy count" is very important, too.

I say save your allowance and buy a V1 and until then, follow your wife's advice, just slow down. Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for NOT buying a V1 as you write out that check to "the man" with money you coulda, shoulda spent on gear.

[knary]

Originally posted by dlearl
There is only ONE detector worth paying ANY money for, the V1.
The price difference is going to be about 10% of what the ticket you get because you've been lulled into a false sense of by cheap detector. The REAR facing radar (only found on a V1) is everybit as important as the front one. And the "Bogy count" is very important, too.

I say save your allowance and buy a V1 and until then, follow your wife's advice, just slow down. Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for NOT buying a V1 as you write out that check to "the man" with money you coulda, shoulda spent on gear.

Nope.
Can't afford it.

I only have so much money to spend and there are other things I need to get as well - new boots, my aerostich is showing its age, a house, etc.

[knary]

So I keep coming back to the Escort 8500. For $270 (lowest real price I've found so far), I get nearly as much (or more?) radar detector than the $450 Valentine ($400 detector + $50 audio jacks).

So now the question is: Any ideas on where I can get the best price for an Escort?

I don't buy things through e-bay. Unfortunately, I missed a cartoys promotion where the 8500 was $240.

[Emoto]

Why don't you try to find a used Valentine somewhere?

[knary]

Originally posted by Emoto
Why don't you try to find a used Valentine somewhere?

First, I have a strong distaste for buying used electronics - at least pricey ones. Second, while I can't find much on-line, I have read several "impartial" reviews that suggest that, at best, the V1 is marginally better than the 8500. Third, I'm somewhere between thrifty and married and about to make some expensive changes in our lives. Funds are limited and the list of stuff that would enhance the ride is growing longer and longer. If the only thing I wanted to buy in the near future was a radar detector, I might get the V1.

[Emoto]

Understood, but did you know that you can send in a V-1 for hardware and software upgrades? So, if you found a used one that was being sold for the right reasons ("we're down to one car now so don't need 2", divorce, death, etc.) you could pick up something good that could be refurbished (and upgraded as Valentine makes improvements) later.

Personally, I would wait until I could get the best. In some circumstances, even the V-1 gives you precious little time to check and adjust your speed, so trading ANY of that away is IMHO foolish.

:dunno

If the difference in price is really that critical, maybe you should sell your BMW for a less expensive bike. After all, it would be "almost as good".

:D

[knary]

Originally posted by Emoto
Understood, but did you know that you can send in a V-1 for hardware and software upgrades? So, if you found a used one that was being sold for the right reasons ("we're down to one car now so don't need 2", divorce, death, etc.) you could pick up something good that could be refurbished (and upgraded as Valentine makes improvements) later.

Personally, I would wait until I could get the best. In some circumstances, even the V-1 gives you precious little time to check and adjust your speed, so trading ANY of that away is IMHO foolish.

:dunno

If the difference in price is really that critical, maybe you should sell your BMW for a less expensive bike. After all, it would be "almost as good".

:D

Foolish?
Foolish might be spending more than you can afford to gain a marginal performance gain. I'll save my rant about perceptions of affordability and value for another time.
:brow

[kbasa]

scott's a starving artist.

trust me on this one, Bob. :)

[Emoto]

Originally posted by KBasa
scott's a starving artist.

trust me on this one, Bob. :)

If you say so, Dave. :)

Scott, if you can, and I mean this with all possible deference, wait until you can get a V-1. Just save your $$$ until then. Really. It will be cheaper in the long run, because eventually you will want a V-1 and that other detector will become a paper weight.

[DesertRider]

I've been following this thread and I keep thinking that I'm missing something, or at least there are a couple of things I don't understand.

- I don't see what's so hard to understand about Scott's decision that he doesn't want to spend $400 on a radar detector. We all have finite funds, we all have to prioritize and make choices, and Scott (commendably, in my view) is putting a few things like home and family ahead of buying the most expensive version of a motorcycle toy. I mean, there's more to life than motorcycles, no? (I say as one who is as nuts about bikes as anyone, and my family along with me -- we own 8 motorcycles, everyone rides, my wife and I plan vacations around riding destinations. But there's still more to life than just motorcycles.)

- I'm not seeing the huge watershed difference between a Valentine and an Escort 8500 or even a Bel 985. A quick search of comparative tests seems to indicate that the differences between the them are minor, and more dealing with gizmo features than detection capability. Several of the comparison tests actually rated other units better than the V1. Now I'm sure fans of the V1 could make a case why it's better (and so could Escort and Bel fans, I imagine) but the point is that if there's a difference between them, it's certainly small, and in terms of real on-road risk management (which is what a detector is), the Escort or Bel might actually be just as effective in practical terms.

Now I know that in toys of the ego (motorcycles and moto toys certainly qualify), for many people a significant part of the pride of ownership is the inner knowledge that you have the best, and the easiest way to gain that feeling is to make sure you buy the most expensive unit available. No one deliberately thinks of it that way, of course, but it's a very easy jump from "I paid the most" to "therefore I got the best." Whatever turns you on, I guess, but in this case Scott has asked a very valid question -- how much better is the V1, really - and from what I see a fair answer is "not much, if anything at all."

Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me. :eek

[knary]

Originally posted by DesertRider
Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me. :eek

Well said.
:thumb

[JimVonBaden1]

Originally posted by knary
Well said.
:thumb

Ditto! :thumb

I have encountered a few people who think I am wasting my money on Joe Rocket. But I cannot justify a $1000 riding suit that gives an arguably marginal improvement in protection. H*!!, I only paid $2500 for my bike.

NOT trying to start a safety discussion, just making a point!

Jim

[BradfordBenn]

Scott-

I applaud you for setting limits and following them.:clap

Having said that, way back when I had a radar detector... 10+ years .... I had a Passport and it worked great. Until the one time I was on open road and well nothing but instant on.

Anyway, the reason I picked Passport is that is was (possibly still is?) part of Cincinnati Microwave, one of the largest makers of radar guns. Plus all the reviews were really good.

At the moment their top of the line unit is about $300 direct from them.

Now the logic of purchasing a radar detector from a company that makes radar guns works for me, they will know what is in the radar gun. Of course there is the other side, since they make the radar detector, they know how to make a gun that will work against it.

Just my $0.02, YMMV.

[Emoto]

Originally posted by BradfordBenn
Scott-

I applaud you for setting limits and following them.:clap

Having said that, way back when I had a radar detector... 10+ years .... I had a Passport and it worked great. Until the one time I was on open road and well nothing but instant on.

Anyway, the reason I picked Passport is that is was (possibly still is?) part of Cincinnati Microwave, one of the largest makers of radar guns. Plus all the reviews were really good.

At the moment their top of the line unit is about $300 direct from them.

Now the logic of purchasing a radar detector from a company that makes radar guns works for me, they will know what is in the radar gun. Of course there is the other side, since they make the radar detector, they know how to make a gun that will work against it.

Just my $0.02, YMMV.

At one time, Cincinnati Microwave was at the top of the heap. I owned one too. During that time when their units were consistently top rated, guess who was their chief engineer: Mike Valentine (who happens to be a motorcyclist, BTW).

He then split off (for reasons I do not know) and started his own company, whose sole product has consistently been rated above all others, in most cases by a wide margin. Every so often another detector comes along that tests better in one category, but never in all categories, and there is usually a drawback: most of the others are "hysterical" with many more false alarms than the V1.

[Emoto]

Originally posted by DesertRider
I've been following this thread and I keep thinking that I'm missing something, or at least there are a couple of things I don't understand.

- I don't see what's so hard to understand about Scott's decision that he doesn't want to spend $400 on a radar detector. We all have finite funds, we all have to prioritize and make choices, and Scott (commendably, in my view) is putting a few things like home and family ahead of buying the most expensive version of a motorcycle toy. I mean, there's more to life than motorcycles, no? (I say as one who is as nuts about bikes as anyone, and my family along with me -- we own 8 motorcycles, everyone rides, my wife and I plan vacations around riding destinations. But there's still more to life than just motorcycles.)

Don't forget that a detector is not motorcycle specific; I take my Valentine in whichever of my 3 vehicles that I happen to drive that day, so it shouldn't be classified as a motorcycle toy.

- I'm not seeing the huge watershed difference between a Valentine and an Escort 8500 or even a Bel 985.

Well, when you're riding with someone sometime who is running a V1 and you're running a CM product like I was and they suddenly brake hard and you're wondering why until your detector goes off a few seconds later, those differences will have meaning. A few seconds is huge in terms of possibly avoiding a ticket.

A quick search of comparative tests seems to indicate that the differences between the them are minor, and more dealing with gizmo features than detection capability. Several of the comparison tests actually rated other units better than the V1.

Maybe I have missed those tests. If you have links for them, could you share them?

Now I'm sure fans of the V1 could make a case why it's better (and so could Escort and Bel fans, I imagine) but the point is that if there's a difference between them, it's certainly small, and in terms of real on-road risk management (which is what a detector is), the Escort or Bel might actually be just as effective in practical terms.

In practical terms, the information presented by the V1 is the most useful. The bogey counter and the directional arrows let you know how many and which direction they are. When your detector goes off, what's the first thing you do? Probably you slow down. The second is that you try to locate the threat, right? You look this way and that, and check your mirrors looking for the cop. The V1 tells you the direction and if ther are multiple threats, the arrow for the strongest signal will flash while the other stay unblinking. Saves a lot of head turning. After having lived with a V1 for a few years, I cannot imagine going back to a detector that did not point in the direction of the threat.

Now I know that in toys of the ego (motorcycles and moto toys certainly qualify), for many people a significant part of the pride of ownership is the inner knowledge that you have the best, and the easiest way to gain that feeling is to make sure you buy the most expensive unit available. No one deliberately thinks of it that way, of course, but it's a very easy jump from "I paid the most" to "therefore I got the best." Whatever turns you on, I guess, but in this case Scott has asked a very valid question -- how much better is the V1, really - and from what I see a fair answer is "not much, if anything at all."

Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me. :eek

I care nothing about status (ask kbasa, he knows me) and I am very tight-fisted with my money. I always seek something that is functionally as good or adequate rather than buy the current trendy item (no aerostiches for me, TYVM) so this thought does not apply to me. Perhaps Scott lives somewhere where they don;t crucify you for speeding, but here in the people's republic of MA, a speeding ticket can raise your insurance rates for SIX YEARS if I am not mistaken, so I take every advantage that I can.

I appreciate that we all need to prioritize our expenditures, and I am certainly in that boat as well. And, my opinion of the V1 is shared by a significant number of friends of mine who are chronic speeders with a capital S who graduated to the V1 from other brands. This is why I advise anyone who wants a detector but cannot afford the V1 to just hold off and wait until they can afford it rather than buy something else.

Of course, as the say: It's your nickel...

[1flyer]

Guys, you are off the point of the post. This isn't a discussion on the virtues or warts of the V-1, it's about helping Knary find a radar detector that fits the amount of funds he is willing to spend. Debate is not the thread, helping him with the identification of an alternative is.

Now then, I would think for most people on this board there are only two choices, V-1 or 8500. Knary, if you are looking for alternatives, you may not find them here.

Good Luck.

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by Emoto
Well, when you're riding with someone sometime who is running a V1 and you're running a CM product like I was and they suddenly brake hard and you're wondering why until your detector goes off a few seconds later, those differences will have meaning. A few seconds is huge in terms of possibly avoiding a ticket.

Anecdotes abound touting the wonders of every detector, but anecdotes are not objective data. Show me the data.

Maybe I have missed those tests. If you have links for them, could you share them?

I just did a quick Google search, below are the top three that came up. Note that *none* of them rate the Valentine as significantly better than the other top units, in some cases not as high as some other units.

Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0402_radar/index7.html)
Consumer Search (http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automotive/radar_d
etectors/)
RadarTest.com (note there are four parts -- see page links at bottom) (http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1024)

In practical terms, the information presented by the V1 is the most useful. The bogey counter and the directional arrows let you know how many and which direction they are. When your detector goes off, what's the first thing you do? Probably you slow down. The second is that you try to locate the threat, right? You look this way and that, and check your mirrors looking for the cop. The V1 tells you the direction and if ther are multiple threats, the arrow for the strongest signal will flash while the other stay unblinking. Saves a lot of head turning. After having lived with a V1 for a few years, I cannot imagine going back to a detector that did not point in the direction of the threat.

I'm not seeing how the arrow really helps -- if still within range, you need to keep the speed down, no matter the direction. But perhaps I'm missing something.

I appreciate that we all need to prioritize our expenditures, and I am certainly in that boat as well. And, my opinion of the V1 is shared by a significant number of friends of mine who are chronic speeders with a capital S who graduated to the V1 from other brands. This is why I advise anyone who wants a detector but cannot afford the V1 to just hold off and wait until they can afford it rather than buy something else.

I understand your friends like it and obviously you do, but I'm not seeing the data that shows the Valentine is better. I have nothing against it, and the $400 is not big deal to me, but the data I've been able to find does not indicate the V1 to be better, and in some cases not as good. Show me hard data otherwise and I'll be a customer, but I do need to see more than conflicting personal anecdotes. I think you can understand why that is not a good guide.

[kbasa]

Oy.

I've had radar detectors for 20 years. The V1 interface provides me with the most useful information and seems to false less and give me a pretty lengthy warning distance. See pictures of my summer ride for evidence of whether a radar detector will make you ticket-proof. :huh

If you're not going to buy a V1 (and after talking with scott on the phone yesterday, that ain't in the cards), I'd perhaps take a look at the cordless BEL 945 with the ear piece.

YMMV, of course, but my perception (and a long history of Car and Driver reviews) has led me to believe that there's Valentine and then there's everything else. It's certainly not gadget lust on my part, it's functionality for me. Which is why I ride big German motorcycles that probably cost more than they should.

[Emoto]

Originally posted by DesertRider
Anecdotes abound touting the wonders of every detector, but anecdotes are not objective data. Show me the data.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=1993

I just did a quick Google search, below are the top three that came up. Note that *none* of them rate the Valentine as significantly better than the other top units, in some cases not as high as some other units.

Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0402_radar/index7.html)
Consumer Search (http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automotive/radar_d
etectors/)
RadarTest.com (note there are four parts -- see page links at bottom) (http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleid=1024)

Note that radartest has a beef with Valentine and is not objective. I haven't had time to look at the others yet.


I'm not seeing how the arrow really helps -- if still within range, you need to keep the speed down, no matter the direction. But perhaps I'm missing something.

They, along with the bogey counter and signal strength meter, help you to build an accurate mental picture of the threats in your vicinity. If you see no value in knowing where the cops are then fine. I want to know where they are.


I understand your friends like it and obviously you do, but I'm not seeing the data that shows the Valentine is better. I have nothing against it, and the $400 is not big deal to me, but the data I've been able to find does not indicate the V1 to be better, and in some cases not as good. Show me hard data otherwise and I'll be a customer, but I do need to see more than conflicting personal anecdotes. I think you can understand why that is not a good guide.

And... you're not going to "see the data" as this isn't a university class or a double blind controlled experiment, so forget it

Look, why don't you go out and buy one of each and use them side by side for a couple of weeks. You can return any mail order item within a month, I believe. Then let us know what you think.

[knary]

:lurk

[1flyer]

Kbasa, I don’t think anyone has heard us yet. If you’ve talked to Knary about what might help him out good for you. I run an old unidin (SP?) and have been ticket free for years.

This reminds me of situations at work. There is so much discussion and enthusiasm for providing an answer no one takes note of the original question.

[knary]

Originally posted by JimVonBaden
Ditto! :thumb

I have encountered a few people who think I am wasting my money on Joe Rocket. But I cannot justify a $1000 riding suit that gives an arguably marginal improvement in protection. H*!!, I only paid $2500 for my bike.

NOT trying to start a safety discussion, just making a point!

Jim

But Jim, since I wear an Aerostich, and my bike IS better than your bike, I am a better rider than you. :evil

My favorite is whenever someone starts a post with, "Why would anyone buy a $15,000 motorcycle and then...". Silly people. :)

[knary]

Originally posted by 1flyer
Kbasa, I don’t think anyone has heard us yet. If you’ve talked to Knary about what might help him out good for you. I run an old unidin (SP?) and have been ticket free for years.

This reminds me of situations at work. There is so much discussion and enthusiasm for providing an answer no one takes note of the original question.

No problems here. It's just part of the fun of a forum - that it is a campfire, not a google search. When I can, I'm going to spring for either the Bel or the Escort depending on what the prices are at the time. I have no problem settling for 95% of the performance at 50% of the cost. Otherwise I'd be in the line for the R1200GS.

[papple]

For what it's worth I run the S2 cordless unit and have had great luck with it. It has the option of running either on batteries or with a power cord. I drive professionally and use it both in my car and on my bikes averageing close to a 100,000 miles a year. I've owned a Valentine, Bel's and various Escorts over the years and this unit works great and gives me all the warning I need. Just because you are running a detector doesn't mean you can run out in the left lane wide open, you still need to run with your eyes, ears and brain at 100%. It's surprizing how many people I see exceeding the limit thinking they can get away with it because they have a rada detector. I put my S2 in a small ziplock bag and run it in the sleeve pocket of my Darien and run the cord thru the arm vent to the collar. This makes for a clean install with no hassles like were to put it everytime you stop. I just take off my jacket and take it with me whenever I get off the bike. This also means if you own more then one bike the unit doesn't need to be transferred when you change machines. Check it out and it might just be what you need. Ride safe as in most parts of the country the people in cars haven't had to share the road with motorcycles for a few months.
Papple

[knary]

*great* idea for carrying the detector.

[lorazepam]

Hey Knary, ping me and I will send you a FREE radar detector. All you have to do is buy a cord. I don't use them, and if you want it I will send it.

[Emoto]

Originally posted by lorazepam
Hey Knary, ping me and I will send you a FREE radar detector. All you have to do is buy a cord. I don't use them, and if you want it I will send it.

OUTSTANDING!!!

This is a great forum.

[Big Blue]

I use a Cobra XR1010, it has the ear piece jack & cost less than $100. For me it works great. But knowing I don't have the "best" I use a bit of common sense. Like, pay attention to it, pick my areas to take liberty with the speed limits carefully, i.e. especiallly watch near school zones, construction zones, metro areas. Also there is always someone who can't stand the fact that you are in front of them, let them go & pace them from a 1/4 mile back. Having a radar detector doesn't mean you can get away with 20+ over where ever you are.
IMO spend less $'s use more common sense & you will get the same results. no tickets

[JimVonBaden1]

Originally posted by knary
But Jim, since I wear an Aerostich, and my bike IS better than your bike, I am a better rider than you. :evil

My favorite is whenever someone starts a post with, "Why would anyone buy a $15,000 motorcycle and then...". Silly people. :)

:dunno Got me Scott. And, you are most definitely a better rider than I!

Then again, I am saving the pennies I saved from the Joe Rocket stuff to buy a K1200RS.

I have no problem settling for 95% of the performance at 50% of the cost. Otherwise I'd be in the line for the R1200GS.

Not worried about the new K bike either. I wouldn't be able to afford it until it was 2-3 years old anyhow. 95% for 50% sounds like good math to me!

Jim:brow

PS Take the freebie!

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by Emoto
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=1993

Yup, saw the C/D test, been reading those as far back as the early 80s when they started doing those. Funny thing is, though, that I can't find another objective test that rates the V1 way ahead. Car & Driver always rates the V1 way ahead, no one else does. One has to wonder why that is -- perhaps their testing method favors the V1 over others, and since their test is always exactly the same, they always keep getting the same result.

In any case, there are many test setups that could be done to test objective performance, and if many tests have been done, one has to look at all of them, not just focus on the one that yields the preferred result. And it's in looking at all the tests I can find that I consistently see the Escort 8500 and the V1 neck and neck, and when a winner is called, the Escort more often than not is declared the winner.

And... you're not going to "see the data" as this isn't a university class or a double blind controlled experiment, so forget it

No, I'm not going to "forget it." Good data is the basis of any good decision. To refuse to look at it is folly.

This isn't like picking your favorite color where there results cannot be measured and compared. The great thing about radar detectors is that they are very easily testable in an objective manner, so objective data *are* very much available. And when I look at the data from the sources I can find, V1 is NOT the clear winner by any means. I would gladly spend the extra money for one if I could see it was clearly better, but I'm not finding what shows that -- can you?

Look, why don't you go out and buy one of each and use them side by side for a couple of weeks. You can return any mail order item within a month, I believe. Then let us know what you think.

Funny you should suggest that. Backroads USA, a motorcycle touring magazine published mostly in the eastern U.S., did just that. Here's what they said about their side-by-side on-road comparison of an Escort 8500 and a Valentine V1:

We have been running these two radar detectors together, on separate motorcycles for most of last season, and we have found that the new Passport 8500. is every bit as sensitive, and seems to work every bit as good as the Valentine One. In some cases even better, depending upon conditions.

During many of these trips and tours, when either Shira or I heard an alarm of an approaching wallet-grabber, we would immediately tell the other. Sometimes the V1 was first, sometimes the Passport 8500.

In the real world they are virtually neck and neck.

The article did go on to say that they found that the Escort was a bit more weather-resistant than the V1, which could be a factor on a bike, but is of course secondary to is detection abilities.

I also found a discussion on a Nissan car forum where one fellow did go out and buy both, and first reports indicated one is about as good as the other.

So I ask again: Where is the objective proof, or even good evidence, that would lead a thinking person to conclude the V1 is unquestionably better? You came up with one, the Car & Driver test, but I can't find another one that corroborates that. I can find many more that indicate otherwise (including last month's test in Motor Trend, which found the 8500 better than the V1.) I even went to the Valentine1 web site looking for excerpts or links to reviews, but found none. (If they're there I couldn't find them -- has anyone else?) On the Escort site, however, I found links and reprints of more than a dozen reviews (even some which did not rate the Escort #1).

It gets me wondering: So where is the mass of articles and comparisons rating the V1 as markedly superior? Is their whole reputation based on endorsement by just one magazine (Car&Driver)? Where are the others who acclaim it best? Can anyone point me to some? If anyone knows of others I'd honestly like to see them -- thanks.

Look, I have no doubt the V1 is a very fine detector. The question, though, is whether it's truly the measurable best, if it lives up to all its hype, if this "king" wears any clothes. So far what I'm seeing is his naked little butt :D, and would appreciate any pointers that would help me conclude otherwise.

[kbasa]

I guess the issue is that aside from Car and Driver, the only other tests I've seen have been along the lines of radartest.com, who are provided with units by the manufacturer and are paid to test them.

Until then, C/D stands for me. I've been reading their tests and methodology for better than 20 years and they're nothing if not consistent.

I think if you're placing all your decision making on sensitivity, you're missing a big piece of what makes a V1 so effective. You have big arrows that tell you which direction the source is coming from, along with how many sources there are.

Here's an example. I rode across the country last year and passed a cop, of course, the V1 picked him up and as I went by, the signal went from being indicated as ahead to being indicated as behind. Before that signal died, the V1 picked up a signal from the front and started reporting 2 sources. Eventually, the count changed to 1 and lo and behold, I came across another cop.

If I'd been relying solely on beeps and signal strength like I did when I had my original Passport, I would have surmised that the cop was pacing me from behind. I would have been in for a nasty surprise as I crested the hill and found one of Missouri's finest with his radar set up.

That's just one example of why I prefer the V1. Sensitivity isn't the only way to measure whether a radar detector is effective. Useful information is also important. In that regard, the V1 provides clearer, more useful information than any other detector I've seen.

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by KBasa
I guess the issue is that aside from Car and Driver, the only other tests I've seen have been along the lines of radartest.com, who are provided with units by the manufacturer and are paid to test them.

Which ones are you referring to? The only one I've seen that does that is RadarTest. I've not seen any information that any of the other tests was with a manufacturer-supplied unit.

I think if you're placing all your decision making on sensitivity, you're missing a big piece of what makes a V1 so effective. You have big arrows that tell you which direction the source is coming from, along with how many sources there are.

Certainly I'm not relying just on sensitivity. In fact based on detectors I've owned previously, very high sensitivity can be too much of a good thing, particularly in urban areas. I'm going by the overall findings of all the tests, all of which do take into account much more than raw sensitivity.

I do agree that knowning how many sources there are is a good thing -- but the V1 is not the only unit that does that. The 8500, for instance, has a mode in which it will simultaneously display the signal strength of up to 8 signal sources (on 8 separate bar graph readouts on the LED display matrix).

And I do see the value of of directional display in some selected situations, but when it's displaying multiple signals, how do you know which one the pointer arrows refer to?

One feature that does seem questionable on a number of high-end detectors is rearward laser sensors. Fine on a car, I suppose, but on a bike your body will block most of the signals from behind. For that matter, your body will block much of the radar signal from behind too, depending on the band, though in the case of radar there may be enough surface scatter to still pick up a rearward emitter. A laser, though, will have far less scatter, and I think rearward sensing of lasers is feature mostly of use in cars, not bikes (unless you're going to mount the unit far off the side of the bike, but I've not see anyone do that).

[Emoto]

Originally posted by DesertRider Certainly I'm not relying just on sensitivity. In fact based on detectors I've owned previously, very high sensitivity can be too much of a good thing, particularly in urban areas.

I don't know the other "good" detectors, but the V1 has several different modes of operation that selectively filter out things. I leave mine wide open all the time, but some folks do use the filters.

And I do see the value of of directional display in some selected situations, but when it's displaying multiple signals, how do you know which one the pointer arrows refer to?

You don't know which specific arrow is indicating which bogey. What you do know, though, is which of the arrows (if multiple arrows are lit) is picking up the strongest signal, as the strong one flashes.

[DesertRider]

<< I don't know the other "good" detectors, but the V1 has several different modes of operation that selectively filter out things. I leave mine wide open all the time, but some folks do use the filters. >>

Pretty much all of them have that. Some, such as the 8500, even allow you to disable warning on some types of radar. In Arizona, for instance, I don't know of any police agencies that use X-band radar, so if you get an X-band warning, you can be sure it's some store's motion detector or other civilian gadget. With the 8500 you can selectively disable X band (or any other band), thus avoiding all those false alarms.

---

I did get a chance to play with an 8500 earlier today. It was set to "Expert Display mode," which shows a graphical readout of all the different types of radar signals it's picking up and their relative signal strenghts as bar graphs -- very cool feature.

We took it do a street near me where there's a fixed speed monitor -- it monitors traffic in both directions on the street and it displays your speed as you go by (if you're going more than 5 mph over it just shows "SLOW DOWN"). Driving toward it, the K-band signal triggered way off and still around a bend, plenty of time to avoid it had it been a police radar, and it displayed a growing bar graph as we approached it. Before we got to it, though, a second, smaller bar graph appeared, slowly growing. That was a bit puzzling until we passed the radar unit, at which point the smaller bar suddenly grew larger and the first one shrank very small. What we were seeing in the second bar graph was the K-band signal from the fixed speed monitor pointing the other way (down the street away from us). It was weak as we were approaching , then as we passed the monitoring point it suddenly grew because now it was firing toward us from behind, while the first unit, now behind us and shooting away from us, shrank to very small. I've never used a radar unit with a multiple-signal strength indicator like that, and I can see how the graphical display makes it much easier to figure out what's happening.

Does the V1 have anything like that, a way to simultaneously monitor the strength of multiple signals? Seems very useful, and it would be interesting to know if the V1 has it.

[moterbiker]

I can just post about personal experience. 2 summers ago I was coming home from VT on the bike, my partner was behind me, we were travelling about 85 down the interstate, a 65 MPH zone, I got a big radar hit a grabbed a lot of brake a second later I saw the cop and I was below his ticket threshold, I looked in the rearview at my partner and she was a half mile behind me waving. Same trip about 40 minutes later in NH the exact same thing happened, when we pulled over for gas she asked me why I had waited so long to slow down, my answer was I slowed when I got the alert, she got the alert way before me. I was lucky, I have cordless Bel, she has the V1.

I am going to buy another radar detector when I can afford one, until then I have slowed my ass down considerably, when I can afford one it will be a V1.

[knary]

Originally posted by moterbiker
I can just post about personal experience. 2 summers ago I was coming home from VT on the bike, my partner was behind me, we were travelling about 85 down the interstate, a 65 MPH zone, I got a big radar hit a grabbed a lot of brake a second later I saw the cop and I was below his ticket threshold, I looked in the rearview at my partner and she was a half mile behind me waving. Same trip about 40 minutes later in NH the exact same thing happened, when we pulled over for gas she asked me why I had waited so long to slow down, my answer was I slowed when I got the alert, she got the alert way before me. I was lucky, I have cordless Bel, she has the V1.

I am going to buy another radar detector when I can afford one, until then I have slowed my ass down considerably, when I can afford one it will be a V1.

Which Bel? Some of the older ones have been rated rather poorly.

[moterbiker]

Damned if I know, takes batteries, has an earpiece, had it since 01.

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by moterbiker
Damned if I know, takes batteries, has an earpiece, had it since 01.

As a general rule cordless detectors do not perform as well as the better corded units. Apparently something is compromised to get the power consumption low enough for them to operate on batteries. Both Bel and Escort offer cordless units, but they are not their best performers.

[gezerbike]

I can't speak about the V1, but I am on my second Escort, first a 7500 and now an 8500 and I have to say they are great units....I have over a 100,000 miles between my car and bike with the 8500 and it has performed flawlessly. I wish it had a rear indicator light but other than that it's great....learn how to use it and you won't be sorry. One thing I have not read is repair cost....they do drop on ocassion......$ 50 flat fee to fix anything on an 8500....and when they send it back they usually have enclosed some accessory for free. Most reports are V!'s are pricey to repair . To me, this a no-brainer.....this is not based on some hyped report or flashy add with all sorts of proclamations but on my own personel use and in over 3 years and 100,000 plus miles this unit has not failed me and has on more than one ocassion has amazed me and taught me to beleive in it .