Wyoming yes, but Gillette???

[Garlicbreath]

If Wyoming has a dusty armpit, it's Gillette. In such a gorgeous state, why pick a location so far from the mountains and other features of interest. Near Gillette most of the best roads are dirt. That said, I plan to attend for the camaraderie but, in the future, I think there are better locations.

[Rharrod]

If Wyoming has a dusty armpit, it's Gillette. In such a gorgeous state, why pick a location so far from the mountains and other features of interest. Near Gillette most of the best roads are dirt. That said, I plan to attend for the camaraderie but, in the future, I think there are better locations. :violin That is just to funny!!!!! L O L

[Friedle]

If Wyoming has a dusty armpit, it's Gillette. In such a gorgeous state, why pick a location so far from the mountains and other features of interest. Near Gillette most of the best roads are dirt. That said, I plan to attend for the camaraderie but, in the future, I think there are better locations.

Please give me the name of another location in Wyoming that can meet the following criteria:

at least 100+ acres of camping space
70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space
approx 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space
grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people
at least 3,000 motel rooms within a 20 mile radius
available on site MOA exclusive beer sales
availability of sufficent showers and restrooms on site or nearby

and those are just the major starting qualifiers to ante up for consideration as a host site!


Can't think of another site in Wyoming that meets those basics? Neither could we.



Friedle
have done this and looked at lots of sites a few times already :brow

[Garlicbreath]

Then perhaps Wyoming isn't the right state, or perhaps there is some flexibility needed to the site requirements. First and foremost should be the riding experience. All of that space won't be needed if folks are turned off by the location. Again, I will attend and encourage others also, but it would be an easier sell with a better location.

[Rob Nye]

If Wyoming has a dusty armpit, it's Gillette. In such a gorgeous state, why pick a location so far from the mountains and other features of interest. Near Gillette most of the best roads are dirt. That said, I plan to attend for the camaraderie but, in the future, I think there are better locations.

There have got to be at least 205 other places in Wyoming that would be 205 times better. :rolleyes

I'm not sure what your issue is. The riding near Gillette is far superior to the riding near West Bend. Or Lima. :sick

[Muriel]

Then perhaps Wyoming isn't the right state, or perhaps there is some flexibility needed to the site requirements. First and foremost should be the riding experience. All of that space won't be needed if folks are turned off by the location. Again, I will attend and encourage others also, but it would be an easier sell with a better location.

I'm excited about going to Gillette. I was there earlier this month, driving in from Rapid City. There were a whole lot of hills and mountains and canyons calling my name, but this time I was on a tight schedule - and not on my bike. The scenery was beautiful, the people extremely friendly and welcoming. The roads may not be really exciting within a short radius of Gillette itself, but there are many roads to ride not far away. Think Big Horns, Mt Rushmore, Devil's Tower, Black Hills, and more.

This site has so much to offer - you've probably never seen so many climate-controlled buildings than at CAM-PLEX. . . . including the registration area. This will be a fantastic rally.

I expect to be retired in 2008, will be on a fixed income, don't like to spend a lot on motels anyway - I'm bringing my tent and looking forward to it.:thumb

Muriel

[knary]

There have got to be at least 205 other places in Wyoming that would be 205 times better. :rolleyes

I'm not sure what your issue is. The riding near Gillette is far superior to the riding near West Bend. Or Lima. :sick

:nod

[Rapid_Roy]

There have got to be at least 205 other places in Wyoming that would be 205 times better. :rolleyes

I'm not sure what your issue is. The riding near Gillette is far superior to the riding near West Bend. Or Lima. :sick

To be fair, yes the roads east of West Bend aint great. There is this big thing called a great lake that pulled all the wrinkles out.

West of West Bend is another story. The further you go, the better the roads get.
I found some fun roads in Lima too. Maybe it is just me.

That explains Wisconsin's performance in the mileage contest every year.
We have to go far, just to get to good roads.:nyah

[Greenwald]

Hey Rharrod - where have you been all this while?

We've been chewing on info and opinions from transient visitors and armchair experts over what to expect in Gillette, and you live there? And ride a BMW?

Sharing time: give all of us an objective appraisal of what Gillette does and does not offer, so that we adventurous travelers may be better prepared come July of next year, when we all descend on your property for free camping, use of the home shower and some garage space!

On second thought, maybe you should leave your house address out of this.

Seriously, could you make a few comments about nearby riding, attractions and motels you'd recommend? Weather is not an issue for me, since that is too unpredictable, and may very well be gorgeous.

Thanks in advance!

[Friedle]

Then perhaps Wyoming isn't the right state, or perhaps there is some flexibility needed to the site requirements. First and foremost should be the riding experience. All of that space won't be needed if folks are turned off by the location. Again, I will attend and encourage others also, but it would be an easier sell with a better location.


I see you are quite new to the Forum, but I don't know anything else about you since you have decided not to fill out any of your profile information.

I will assume you are also new to the MOA.

The annual gathering in Gillette will be the 36 year we have had such an event. The MOA tries to move the event around the country, and even across the border once, to give as many of our members a chance to attend the event as possible, recognizing that not everyone has the time, money or desire to travel to the rotating site each year.

This year the geographic zone for the Rally was scheduled for that area of the country. Finding sites in that area that meet our basic requirements can be described as difficult at best. There were some other suggestions with much better riding in their immediate area, but they did not meet the basic physical requirements/specifications.

For the last six or seven years we have been drawing crowds of between 6,000 and 9,000 attendees to our annual event. What would you imagine would be the response from our 38,000+ members if the MOA Board were to select a site that stressed the riding experience but we would have to limit the Rally attendence to the first 2,000 attendees?

Why not run for the BoD and be the Rally Chair for that experience?

It still comes down to the fact that the BoD tries our best to provide the best possible experience for as many of our members as possible, every year and in as many parts of the country as possible. Many of us leave the BoD with the distinct feeling that no good deed goes unpunished. Thank God many of us are thick skinned masochists. :D

If you can't make it this year or don't want to make it this year, it's very simple. Don't come. Wait to see where the Rally will be next year and then make a decision about going there. Or stay home again next year. Sooner or later we will go to someplace that you like. :bikes

Friedle

[osbornk]

Please give me the name of another location in Wyoming that can meet the following criteria:

at least 100+ acres of camping space
70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space
approx 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space
grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people
at least 3,000 motel rooms within a 20 mile radius
available on site MOA exclusive beer sales
availability of sufficent showers and restrooms on site or nearby

and those are just the major starting qualifiers to ante up for consideration as a host site!


Can't think of another site in Wyoming that meets those basics? Neither could we.



Friedle
have done this and looked at lots of sites a few times already :brow

Not just in Wyoming. Anywhere. The MOA caused the problem by having great rallies that people want to attend.

[Mudbug]

The MOA tries to move the event around the country, and even across the border once, to give as many of our members a chance to attend the event as possible, ... Friedle

Actually, this is not quite true. The rally locations of the past 10 years have been in the far northern United States consistently , close to Canada or the Great Lakes. That is not moving around for as many members to attend. What about MOA members from Southern California, New Mexico, Florida, Louisiana, the southern States? For the past ten years members living in those locations have had to travel the farthest and the longest.

I say spread it around more. Be more flexible. And by the way, 6 to 10 thousand is not a large rally. There are places that may not fit the criteria for a rally site that routinely have motorcycle rallies with attendance of 30,000 or more.

[kenk]

Please give me the name of another location in Wyoming that can meet the following criteria:

at least 100+ acres of camping space
70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space
approx 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space
grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people
at least 3,000 motel rooms within a 20 mile radius
available on site MOA exclusive beer sales
availability of sufficent showers and restrooms on site or nearby

and those are just the major starting qualifiers to ante up for consideration as a host site!


Can't think of another site in Wyoming that meets those basics? Neither could we.



Friedle
have done this and looked at lots of sites a few times already :brow

Hmm...this excuse is getting old. If Cody, Sheridan, Jackson, Cheyenne (just to name a few) don't meet the criteria, don't force the square peg into the round hole. Move onto the Black Hills of South Dakota (heaven forbid we go to a Harley site that handles 500,000 bikes) or move it south to Colorado where there are many locations that can easily handle 8,500 bikes - Loveland, Castle Rock, Boulder, Estes Park, Colorado Springs.

My two cents...you don't need 70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space. At West Bend, most was outdoors. As for seminar space, almost any location with a livestock barn provides 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space. Grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people ....all you need a field and a podium. What you do need is an area with great riding. That criteria should be moved to the top and ruled out Gillette from day one. If you don't want to change the criteria, you need to move the locations aways from towns with 20,000 people. Going to where nobody else wants to go is not a good method to determine a rally site.

[Rapid_Roy]

My two cents...you don't need 70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space. At West Bend, most was outdoors. As for seminar space, almost any location with a livestock barn provides 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space. Grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people ....all you need a field and a podium. What you do need is an area with great riding. That criteria should be moved to the top and ruled out Gillette from day one. If you don't want to change the criteria, you need to move the locations aways from towns with 20,000 people. Going to where nobody else wants to go is not a good method to determine a rally site.
Many people seem to differ on the "no great riding area" thing also. Actually, I want to go. I also don't think I am the minority from what I have been reading. However, I can be an idiot. :thumb

[aaaaaa]

back in '85 when the K bikes arrived they made a whining sound. K-whiners we called um. Look like a new breed has sprung up for '07 without BMW enginering having to lift a finger. I'm dreaming of a beautiful 9000 mile loop from/to New Jersey which includes a stop in Gillette. It'll be the best rally yet.
robert :buds
04GS 00RT

[GRANT63RT]

back in '85 when the K bikes arrived they made a whining sound. K-whiners we called um. Look like a new breed has sprung up for '07 without BMW enginering having to lift a finger. I'm dreaming of a beautiful 9000 mile loop from/to New Jersey which includes a stop in Gillette. It'll be the best rally yet.
robert :buds
04GS 00RT

I'm with you Robert! :thumb

My loop will start in upstate NY and may only be 4500 miles. I'm sure Gillette will be great but it's one stop along the way. I can't wait to take another trip over Beartooth pass and Chief Joseph Highway. Rode those roads for the first time in '04 on the return trip from the Spokane rally. Makes my adrenalin flow just thinking about it. See you there!

[KGT1200]

DejaVU baby!

II seem to have read this thread before? Same arguments, same counters, same stuff! How can this be? WOW! New names!

And whats really wow is I have been told by many of the lifers at this ward is that each year, about the same time...it starts all over again! Last years threads were called like "west bend, west WHAT?"

And you don't believe in space aliens, HA!

Have fun and NO suggestive pictures!

[BradfordBenn]

I am probably in the minority, but I am not as concerned about the riding around the venue, but the riding to get there. I just enjoy hanging out at the Rally with a few thousand of my friends. This year at West Bend, I had a blast. I also did not ride at all except for going to dinner once.

[BernieEcht]

I am with Brad. I always do most of my riding before the rally. I usually try to explore the state or the general area before the rally and then park during the rally. There are so many things to do at the rally, I don't have time to go riding.
That is why I rely on the local members to post there favorite rides/roads of there home state on the forum or in the MOA-ON before the rally.:bikes

[Paul_F]

I am probably in the minority, but I am not as concerned about the riding around the venue, but the riding to get there. I just enjoy hanging out at the Rally with a few thousand of my friends. This year at West Bend, I had a blast. I also did not ride at all except for going to dinner once.

Ditto

[tourunigo]

as Grant, aaaaaa and others have said, we too will be consuming many miles getting there and coming back. Lots to see. Our plan is to take in Nashville, Austin, Las Vegas, Santa Barbara, Cal #1, Vancouver Is. , Calgary, Gillette, and whatever after that. We look forward to getting to the rally and be surrounded by a diverse assembly of folks who have a 'common thread' of interest, lots of beer (is Bud really a beer??), good music, lots to learn in seminars, lots of stuff to buy +++ Why would I spend that time riding around the place?? Our only time in the Gillette area was when we overlooked getting gas there and almost running out in Crazy Woman Creek. (another story) Anyway, we, like many many others, will be there as we have previously. See you there. -Bob

[ScottM]

I hope to tie in Top of the Rockies the weekend after (i think). I tend to agree that riding at the rally is not the draw. I plan the drive there and back to be FUN. The time there is to enjoy the beer, attend a seminar or two, and did I say enjoy a beer!

[Muriel]

I hope to tie in Top of the Rockies the weekend after (i think). I tend to agree that riding at the rally is not the draw. I plan the drive there and back to be FUN. The time there is to enjoy the beer, attend a seminar or two, and did I say enjoy a beer!
And volunteer some? That's fun, too!

Muriel

[ScottM]

Yep, did the back gate at West Bend Thursday night. Pretty crazy but a good time.

[Newstar]

First off, I'd like to say a big THANK YOU to Friedle for volunteering your time to plan the upcoming rally. As a former chairperson for a major local event, I know first hand that you will have plenty of critics and nay-sayers. Unfortunately, it's it too few who take the time to say thanks for your efforts.

To those critics and nay-sayers, what have you done to assist in this process? I'm sure there is plenty of room for more volunteers so jump in and get involved!

We all have a choice - attend the rally, or don't. Whether it's for the roads to ride on or the opportunity to be amongst friends, we all have our reasons for wanting to be there. If it's about the journey, just pick another route or another rally.

Unfortunately I will not be there. Not because of the location but a lack of vacation time. Having only been to one MOA rally, I can say that if I had more time, I'd be there regardless of where it is held.

[SNC1923]

I've been to dozens of local-ish rallies, but West Bend was my first national.

I volunteered, met friends, did a bit of riding, ate great food, partied, and just generally had a blast. I would go to next year's rally if it were in hell.

The folks planning this (and past rallies) are trying to please thousands of people which, as Friedle points out, is a thankless enterprise. At least until you get to the rally and see so many smiling faces walking around and greeting old friends that they've never met.

I have family coming from Australia next summer, and their visit will almost certainly coincide with the rally dates. I'm severely bummed, especially with the rally being so near. Our last nearby rally was Washington.

For those that think there's a vast NorthEast rally conspiracy, check out How We Choose a Rally Site (http://www.bmwmoa.org/rally/rally06/rallyprocess.htm) to see that it's all on the up and up.

[Friedle]

First off, I'd like to say a big THANK YOU to Friedle for volunteering your time to plan the upcoming rally. As a former chairperson for a major local event, I know first hand that you will have plenty of critics and nay-sayers. Unfortunately, it's it too few who take the time to say thanks for your efforts.

To those critics and nay-sayers, what have you done to assist in this process? I'm sure there is plenty of room for more volunteers so jump in and get involved!

We all have a choice - attend the rally, or don't. Whether it's for the roads to ride on or the opportunity to be amongst friends, we all have our reasons for wanting to be there. If it's about the journey, just pick another route or another rally.

Unfortunately I will not be there. Not because of the location but a lack of vacation time. Having only been to one MOA rally, I can say that if I had more time, I'd be there regardless of where it is held.

Let me be clear that I am not planning the Gillette Rally. The Rally chairs for this year are Deb Lower and Karol Patzer. I am a current Board of Directors member and have planned three past Nationals; might be making plans for another in the future; helping develop plans for other MOA marketing events; planning local rallies for MOA chartered clubs; all of which keeps me busy enough. I am making suggestions and contacts/contracts for killer entertainment for Gillette, but the final say on who will ultimately perform there resides with the Rally Chairs, not me.

If you're not in Gillette for the National Rally, you will miss the party and maybe even miss seeing some friends who will be there. Of course, there is always next year and attendence is not mandatory, nor taken, like middle school homeroom.

Friedle

[kenk]

Let me be clear that I am not planning the Gillette Rally. The Rally chairs for this year are Deb Lower and Karol Patzer. I am a current Board of Directors member and have planned three past Nationals; might be making plans for another in the future; helping develop plans for other MOA marketing events; planning local rallies for MOA chartered clubs; all of which keeps me busy enough. I am making suggestions and contacts/contracts for killer entertainment for Gillette, but the final say on who will ultimately perform there resides with the Rally Chairs, not me.

If you're not in Gillette for the National Rally, you will miss the party and maybe even miss seeing some friends who will be there. Of course, there is always next year and attendence is not mandatory, nor taken, like middle school homeroom.

Friedle

Let me guess...you planned the guys in lederhosen and the polka band at West Bend. I have to admit, after several beers, even the 70 year old lead singer was looking good.

[Mika]

Two points to add to Friedle’s list.
1. If a site meets the requirements the next question is it available at the desired time?

2. If the site meets the requirements does it want to bid to host the event? Not every community wants to host any kind of motorcycle rally even if it is capable of meeting all of the requirements and the space is open.

[kenk]

Two points to add to Friedle’s list.
1. If a site meets the requirements the next question is it available at the desired time?

2. If the site meets the requirements does it want to bid to host the event? Not every community wants to host any kind of motorcycle rally even if it is capable of meeting all of the requirements and the space is open.

Now this is blinding flash of the obvious! There are plenty of locations that would love to host a rally with folks meeting the demographics of MOA. We need to get away from selecting sites that nobody else wants and go to places our members always wanted to see. Example....one of my favorite towns.. Jasper, Alberta - located on the north end of the Ice fields. Then again...going north to Canada may detour vendors. We can't have that. How about Moab, Utah? How about Kalispell or Whitefish, MT? How about Jackson Hole? Our members have limited vacation time. Maybe if we provided a location they want to see, more than 25% will attend.

[judjones]

Near Gillette most of the best roads are dirt.

One reason I'm looking forward to this one.:clap

[Mika]

Now this is blinding flash of the obvious! There are plenty of locations that would love to host a rally with folks meeting the demographics of MOA. We need to get away from selecting sites that nobody else wants and go to places our members always wanted to see. Example....one of my favorite towns.. Jasper, Alberta - located on the north end of the Ice fields. Then again...going north to Canada may deter vendors. We can't have that. How about Moab, Utah? How about Kalispell or Whitefish, MT? How about Jackson Hole? Our members have limited vacation time. Maybe if we provided a location they want to see, more than 25% will attend.

I would love to go back to Jasper and have a rally be the reason; however, Jasper is not in the region that the site was to be selected from.

[wbillyboy116]

Please give me the name of another location in Wyoming that can meet the following criteria:

at least 100+ acres of camping space
70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space
approx 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space
grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people
at least 3,000 motel rooms within a 20 mile radius
available on site MOA exclusive beer sales
availability of sufficent showers and restrooms on site or nearby

and those are just the major starting qualifiers to ante up for consideration as a host site!


Can't think of another site in Wyoming that meets those basics? Neither could we.



Friedle
have done this and looked at lots of sites a few times already :brow

Easy solution! Don't have it in Wyoming! That area is many miles from the mountains and the good paved riding roads. Plus the it's easy for the local,county and state patrol to give out speeding tickets so watch it! Roads are limited.:buds

[kenk]

Easy solution! Don't have it in Wyoming! That area is many miles from the mountains and the good paved riding roads. Plus the it's easy for the local,county and state patrol to give out speeding tickets so watch it! Roads are limited.:buds

When consider almost all the hotels are taken by construction workers, Gillette doesn't meet the 3000 room limit. That's why we're paying $230 for a Day Inn.

[Rapid_Roy]

Example....one of my favorite towns.. Jasper, Alberta - located on the north end of the Ice fields. Then again...going north to Canada may detour vendors.
There ya go. I won't go if it is in Canada, and I haven't gone, when it was in Canada. Before any Canadians get upset, I have my reasons, and it has to do with crossing the Border. I guess it really is hard to please all the people all the time. That must be why that saying was invented.

[bikerfish1100]

Let me guess...you planned the guys in lederhosen and the polka band at West Bend. I have to admit, after several beers, even the 70 year old lead singer was looking good.

i can tell you from past experience, that if Mike F is involved in getting the music, it WILL be good.

[Rharrod]

There ya go. I won't go if it is in Canada, and I haven't gone, when it was in Canada. Before any Canadians get upset, I have my reasons, and it has to do with crossing the Border. I guess it really is hard to please all the people all the time. That must be why that saying was invented. Roy, I have not been back in years. I had a little problem also at the Border. They would not get it out of there head that I did not have a gun. They looked at me, my truck, and would not get over it. So had me pull over and tore apart me truck and camper looking for my guns, that where locked up at home in Wyoming. So then I, not them, but I, and to put all my camping gear and truck back together. They even took the camp stove apart? I peaked it all up and turned back South, Gave them all the bird and have not been back!!!!!!!!!!! That was years ago, I hope to try it again. This time on the bike. It will not take as long to put back together. :rofl Richard

[Friedle]

i can tell you from past experience, that if Mike F is involved in getting the music, it WILL be good.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. "From your mouth to the Rally Chairs ears" to paraphrase our Arabic friends phrase.

Friedle

[AZgman]

Hmm...this excuse is getting old. If Cody, Sheridan, Jackson, Cheyenne (just to name a few) don't meet the criteria, don't force the square peg into the round hole. Move onto the Black Hills of South Dakota (heaven forbid we go to a Harley site that handles 500,000 bikes) or move it south to Colorado where there are many locations that can easily handle 8,500 bikes - Loveland, Castle Rock, Boulder, Estes Park, Colorado Springs.

My two cents...you don't need 70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space. At West Bend, most was outdoors. As for seminar space, almost any location with a livestock barn provides 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space. Grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people ....all you need a field and a podium. What you do need is an area with great riding. That criteria should be moved to the top and ruled out Gillette from day one. If you don't want to change the criteria, you need to move the locations aways from towns with 20,000 people. Going to where nobody else wants to go is not a good method to determine a rally site.

Kenk,

I think you might find an RA rally to your liking! :stick

I, for one, appreciate the efforts of every person who puts time into planning the national rally. So to all of you, here is at least one "THANK YOU!"

As Mr Friedle said, if you don't like the location, don't go! :wave

[Rharrod]

Kenk,

I think you might find an RA rally to your liking! :stick

I, for one, appreciate the efforts of every person would puts time into planning the national rally. So to all of you, here is at least one "THANK YOU!"

As Mr Friedle said, if you don't like the location, don't go! :wave Well said, my friend!:beer Richard

[gulfcoastbeemer]

... criteria:

at least 100+ acres of camping space
70,000-100,000 sq ft of indoor commercial vendor space
approx 40,000 sq ft of indoor seminar space
grandstand capable of seating at least 3,500 people
at least 3,000 motel rooms within a 20 mile radius
available on site MOA exclusive beer sales
availability of sufficent showers and restrooms on site or nearby

and those are just the major starting qualifiers to ante up for consideration as a host site!

I think we need to re-think what meets the criteria.

Each year a simple marina in Norwalk, CT transforms inself into the International In Water Boat Show (http://www.boatshownorwalk.com/attendees/venue/default.aspx). The show is an annual success, yet they don't have most of what is required to host one of the largest boat shows in the nation. What they do have is WATER!

So how do they do it?

Lots of huge circus-style tents, portable toilets/showers, temporary power facilites, and lots of good old Yankee ingenuity.

The parallel here is: WATER is essential to an in-water boat show; RIDING-ROADS are essential to a motorcycle rally -- everything else is negotiable, portable, temporary, optional, or superfluous!!!

[Rapid_Roy]

The parallel here is: WATER is essential to an in-water boat show; RIDING-ROADS are essential to a motorcycle rally -- everything else is negotiable, portable, temporary, optional, or superfluous!!!,IMO
Fixed. :)

I don't feel they are essential in the way that water is for boats. I feel they are a plus.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Fixed. :)

I don't feel they are essential in the way that water is for boats. I feel they are a plus.

I guess I don't understand this logic: riding-roads are not essential, just a plus???

This is a MOTORCYCLE RALLY site, not some kind of internment camp, right?

To me the attraction to the sport of motorcycling is in the actual RIDING -- particularly, riding in an area blessed with a variety of scenic and challenging roads.

To be hunkered down, going nowhere for three days at a motorcycle rally is worse than pointless. I don't care how great the showers are. It's torture.

[Rapid_Roy]

I guess I don't understand this logic: riding-roads are not essential, just a plus???

This is a MOTORCYCLE RALLY site, not some kind of internment camp, right?

To me the attraction to the sport of motorcycling is in the actual RIDING -- particularly, riding in an area blessed with a variety of scenic and challenging roads.

To be hunkered down, going nowhere for three days at a motorcycle rally is worse than pointless. I don't care how great the showers are. It's torture.
No logic was used whatsoever. Like yours, it is neither, right or wrong, it's an opinion.
You started the sentence with To ME. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. Some people might like boating because of the boat shows, others might like it because they like being on the water. Is one's opinion worth less than the other?
To you it is about the roads. To me, it is seeing new places and meeting old friends.
Who said I wasn't going anywhere for 3 days? I plan on going to Devil's Tower, Custer, the Needles Highway, Mount Rushmore and maybe more. Then a shower, then Beer tent. :thumb
I guess I won't see you in Gillette then. Have a nice ride. :thumb

[osbornk]

There ya go. I won't go if it is in Canada, and I haven't gone, when it was in Canada. Before any Canadians get upset, I have my reasons, and it has to do with crossing the Border. I guess it really is hard to please all the people all the time. That must be why that saying was invented.

If you had problems before, imagine what the problems will with the new requirements for passports and homeland security inspections. I can just see fully packed motorcycles with everything on them spread out for inspection and the riders spending considerable time repacking their bikes.

[SheRidesABeemer]

...

To me the attraction to the sport of motorcycling is in the actual RIDING -- particularly, riding in an area blessed with a variety of scenic and challenging roads.

To be hunkered down, going nowhere for three days at a motorcycle rally is worse than pointless. I don't care how great the showers are. It's torture.

I think this is a position held by many people who choose not to attend rallys, because a rally can be so much hunkering down - thus the vendors, entertainment and seminars. Others use the rally as a base point to ride the area.

If the rally is not for you...it's not for you. We all enjoy our bikes in different ways and for different reasons.

No one needs to be offended, we all choose our own ride. :)

[Mika]

I think understanding both Rapid Roy and gulfcoastbeener’s comments.

I went to last year’s rally with plans to ride in the area. I had done a good bit of research and was looking forward to exploring the area using the rally as a base. With volunteering, seminars and meeting people I didn’t get off the site much. I am an introverted rider preferring to ride alone, so, frankly when I did get out and ride the area sharing the roads with 7,000 of my fellow riders did not exactly trip my trigger when I did. However; those riders I did see seemed to be having fun in their groups.

I did plan fun rides to and from the rally just as I have been planning fun for the trip to Gillette and back. I am planning on volunteering again and seeing people. When I do go for a ride I plan on trying not to fall over in the dirt on my Roadster. :)

[Rapid_Roy]

I have had a great time at the Nat'ls when they were in areas with great roads.
I have had a great time at Nat'ls where the roads were not "technically challenging."
I must be odd. I will definitely skew the survey. :laugh

I have only gone to 15 though.
I have to get a few more under my belt to determine if I will stop going or not.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

I plan on going to Devil's Tower, Custer, the Needles Highway, Mount Rushmore and maybe more.

Last year, my wife and I spent several days camped in Hill City, SD, from which we visited the infamous Wall Drug (don't bother), the Bad Lands, Needles Highway, Sturgis, Deadwood, Spearfish, Mount Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Custer, etc.

Hill City is a great starting point from which to visit these places. No matter which way you go, it's about five hours from Gillette, WY to Hill City, SD and back.

On our way to Red Lodge, MT and Beartooth Pass we stopped for fuel in Gillette, WY at the Flying-J. I remember grain elevators, railroad siding, a water tower, and an absense of trees. It's hard to judge a town from a truck stop on the interstate; however, coming into Gillette the surrounding terrain seemed genuinely unremarkable -- pretty much prairie. In the middle of July it was over a 100 degrees, dusty and windy.

Have any favorite rides in the Gillette, WY area?

At the Cam-Plex web site (http://www.cam-plex.com/site/Forms/BMW_Information%20text.htm) they have this photo. Does anybody know where this was taken? I would be pleasantly surprised to learn this is anywhere near the CAM-PLEX.

FLASH: I performed a Google search for the credited photographer, Angela Rath, and found the scene in the below promotional Gillette Cam-Plex photo is a little further away from Gillette than I bargained for -- it's actually Maloja Pass, Switzerland. "Motorcycle Nirvana! (http://www.bmwmoa.org/photo/gallery.htm?s=12&pic=38551746)", Photo submitted by Angela Rath #53326

How about a little truth in advertising!

http://www.cam-plex.com/site/Forms/images/BMW-pic.gif

[Rapid_Roy]

Have any favorite rides in the Gillette, WY area?

Well, a member has suggested some here. (http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21317)
I am not trying to change your mind though.

[kenk]

Last year, my wife and I spent several days camped in Hill City, SD, from which we visited the infamous Wall Drug (don't bother), the Bad Lands, Needles Highway, Sturgis, Deadwood, Spearfish, Mount Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Custer, etc.

Hill City is a great starting point from which to visit these places. No matter which way you go, it's about five hours from Gillette, WY to Hill City, SD and back.

On our way to Red Lodge, MT and Beartooth Pass we stopped for fuel in Gillette, WY at the Flying-J. I remember grain elevators, railroad siding, a water tower, and an absense of trees. It's hard to judge a town from a truck stop on the interstate; however, coming into Gillette the surrounding terrain seemed genuinely unremarkable -- pretty much prairie. In the middle of July it was over a 100 degrees, dusty and windy.

Have any favorite rides in the Gillette, WY area?

At the Cam-Plex web site (http://www.cam-plex.com/site/Forms/BMW_Information%20text.htm) they have this photo. Does anybody know where this was taken? I would be pleasantly surprised to learn this is anywhere near the CAM-PLEX.

FLASH: I performed a Google search for the credited photographer, Angela Rath, and found the scene in the below promotional Gillette Cam-Plex photo is a little further away from Gillette than I bargained for -- it's actually Maloja Pass, Switzerland. "Motorcycle Nirvana! (http://www.bmwmoa.org/photo/gallery.htm?s=12&pic=38551746)", Photo submitted by Angela Rath #53326

How about a little truth in advertising!

http://www.cam-plex.com/site/Forms/images/BMW-pic.gif

They also failed to tell us BMWMOA would be competing for all services with two major power plants under construction. Honesty is certainly not a strong suit for Gillette.

[KGT1200]

Gillette. hmmmm. nobody I mean NOBODY can convince anybody to smile about Gillette, you got to want to smile...and dream about the national in 08.

But the segment on this forum who are absolutely convinced to ruin the dreams of as many as possible of anybody who might have a dream of having fun in Gillette simply will not give up. Bound and detrmined...strike that FIXATED with the soul goal of convincing anyone who might be on the fence about having a good time at Gillette Rally not to go. Fixated in painting the rally, painting gillette, painting the ride to gillette BLACK :( Day after day the chant...the whine is the same.

Good god, are you all getting paid by some weirtd lobby group to try to destroy this national?

And don't tell me it's all because you care about the national or that if you don't speak up now other nationals are at risk of ending up in a place that's as bad or worse than Gillette...you care HA! Your point was made two months ago...Can it and let the rest of us enjoy our dream of a great ride, of a great rally, of a great opportunity to see old friends and meet new friends at the 08 Rally.

It appears to be a vendetta with the sole goal of ruining 08 rally cause you don't like Gillette, you don't like the location, sort of like a kid whose ice cream melt all over your hand before you had a chance to eat it; you are bound and determined to ruin everyone elses ice cream CAUSE YOU CAN simply by that nagging whine of an open mouth.

If you don't like Gillette DONT GO, QUIT WHINING sheesh enough of this horse manure.


for the record, since I am trying to be more civil...I respect your opinion, you believe in what you want, but I have to ask, please PLEASE just start a new thread, ok? Call it "NON CONSTRUCTIVE BITCHIN AND RANTING BY GILLETTE HATERS" You have the right for what ever reason to ruin it for the rest.... thata's your right. I just cant figure out why...

Red

ps go ahead tear it up...tear my opinion up, go for it...that seems to be what you do best, boys!

[kenk]

Gillette. hmmmm. nobody I mean NOBODY can convince anybody to smile about Gillette, you got to want to smile...and dream about the national in 08.

But the segment on this forum who are absolutely convinced to ruin the dreams of as many as possible of anybody who might have a dream of having fun in Gillette simply will not give up. Bound and detrmined...strike that FIXATED with the soul goal of convincing anyone who might be on the fence about having a good time at Gillette Rally not to go. Fixated in painting the rally, painting gillette, painting the ride to gillette BLACK :( Day after day the chant...the whine is the same.

Good god, are you all getting paid by some weirtd lobby group to try to destroy this national?

And don't tell me it's all because you care about the national or that if you don't speak up now other nationals are at risk of ending up in a place that's as bad or worse than Gillette...you care HA! Your point was made two months ago...Can it and let the rest of us enjoy our dream of a great ride, of a great rally, of a great opportunity to see old friends and meet new friends at the 08 Rally.

It appears to be a vendetta with the sole goal of ruining 08 rally cause you don't like Gillette, you don't like the location, sort of like a kid whose ice cream melt all over your hand before you had a chance to eat it; you are bound and determined to ruin everyone elses ice cream CAUSE YOU CAN simply by that nagging whine of an open mouth.

If you don't like Gillette DONT GO, QUIT WHINING sheesh enough of this horse manure.


for the record, since I am trying to be more civil...I respect your opinion, you believe in what you want, but I have to ask, please PLEASE just start a new thread, ok? Call it "NON CONSTRUCTIVE BITCHIN AND RANTING BY GILLETTE HATERS" You have the right for what ever reason to ruin it for the rest.... thata's your right. I just cant figure out why...

Red

ps go ahead tear it up...tear my opinion up, go for it...that seems to be what you do best, boys!

Let me guess...you have your own beer tent! :buds You better save some for the rally.

[KGT1200]

I'm just blowing off steam here, don't take to heart, old boy, you say and do (I know you will regardless) what you feel, and so will I! I'm just in a bad mood tonight.

I will just try my best to stay away from this thread, and the posts surrounding drop kicking Gillette 08 in the balls...gets me too upset...But, I would be happy to buy you a beer, and discuss what we have in common if you are in Gillette, I just need to quit reading the "stick Gillete up your rear" posts because well...I thought it was a neat Rally...I still think it's going to be a neat rally...hope to see your there!:bikes

Ps Kenk I don't drink, not for many years, so quit the "your bombed" insult...this is the real me! 24 7, as you should know by now!?

I think your opinion on Gillette and your constant hammering on Gillette is mistaken for what ever reason! Maybe it's you that needs some self examination...maybe? Why do you hate Gillette...ask your self, self examination, sort of a self run "mini mental", eh Kenk?

[gulfcoastbeemer]

I don't believe it is the intent of members who are critical of the '08 rally site to spoil the rally for anyone. At most, I think some are trying to understand how it came to be selected and prevent a reoccurance of, what they hope is, a temporary lapse in good judgement by the selection committee.

Someone proposed that there is an excellent fit between the MOA International Rally and ski resort areas. This seems to make perfect sense to me. Ski resort areas have it all -- mountains, lodging, restaurant facilities, the ability to handle large crowds -- and they are under-booked during Summer months, looking for opportunities to host major Summer events.

Like any real estate transaction, the top three criteria for a rally site should be location, location, location. If the best that can be said about the '08 rally location is you have the opportunity to ride through some really nice areas on the way to and from Gillette, one has to question the wisdom of its selection.

I'd like to learn more about the due diligence process exercised in the selection of a rally site. Something in the process has to be skewing the result such that a place like Gillette floats to the top of the list.

[kenk]

I'm just blowing off steam here, don't take to heart, old boy, you say and do (I know you will regardless) what you feel, and so will I! I'm just in a bad mood tonight.

I will just try my best to stay away from this thread, and the posts surrounding drop kicking Gillette 08 in the balls...gets me too upset...But, I would be happy to buy you a beer, and discuss what we have in common if you are in Gillette, I just need to quit reading the "stick Gillete up your rear" posts because well...I thought it was a neat Rally...I still think it's going to be a neat rally...hope to see your there!:bikes

Ps Kenk I don't drink, not for many years, so quit the "your bombed" insult...this is the real me! 24 7, as you should know by now!?

I think your opinion on Gillette and your constant hammering on Gillette is mistaken for what ever reason! Maybe it's you that needs some self examination...maybe? Why do you hate Gillette...ask your self, self examination, sort of a self run "mini mental", eh Kenk?

Sorry to upset you. It's not my intent.

I neither like or dislike Gillette and that's the problem in a nutshell. Like many small towns, they are full of good people just trying to earn a living. However, like many of them, I wouldn't spend my vacation there.

Although there are many good folks that attend the rally, I don't need to go to the rally to meet friends. I currently belong to four local clubs and three national clubs. At least once a week (I have one tomorrow Noon), I ride and have lunch with 30-50 other retirees, all on bikes. I rode 40,000 miles this year and other than to visit relatives the Dakotas, my destination was never a town like Gillette.

I think its important for all members to make their opinions known so next years selection committee at least considers them. Otherwise, many of us will continue to miss more BMWMOA International rallies than we attend.

[PGlaves]

I think its important for all members to make their opinions known so next years selection committee at least considers them. Otherwise, many of us will continue to miss more BMWMOA International rallies than we attend.

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

[Friedle]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

AND, which ones did you attend?

Friedle

[Friedle]

Ski areas are usually located in beautiful riding enviroments, although I will remind you that there are ski areas in the Mid West with 400 foot vertical elevations that are the tallest things around for miles. :brow

Ski areas are usually located on slopes, with little level ground, or they don't stay in businiess very long. While they often have enough lodging, there is usually a lack of facilities for vendors and often seminars space is inadequate for our needs on a national scope. Food costs are often very high and limited in choice. Camping can also be problematic as can finding enough ancilliary support services as we require at a reasonable cost given the relative isolation of many ski areas.

It's a tough logistical challenge for establishing a small motorcycle oriented city at a reasonable cost with volunteer labor for a weekend. That is not to say ski areas are incompatible with motorcycle events, as might be shown in the future.

Friedle

[gulfcoastbeemer]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

Paul, I know your question wasn't directed at me -- and I've only recently rejoined the BMW brand after a 38-year absence, but I would be interested to get your assessment of the 1997 BMW MOA Rally in Texas.

Having ridden Texas Hill Country and the wonderful mix of surrounding small towns and large cities -- I would think somewhere in the Fredericksburg/Austin/San Antonio area would be a terriffic location for MOA Rally.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Ski areas are usually located in beautiful riding enviroments, although I will remind you that there are ski areas in the Mid West with 400 foot vertical elevations that are the tallest things around for miles. :brow

Agreed. We should eliminate all Mid Western ski slopes!

Ski areas are usually located on slopes, with little level ground, or they don't stay in businiess very long. While they often have enough lodging, there is usually a lack of facilities for vendors and often seminars space is inadequate for our needs on a national scope. Food costs are often very high and limited in choice. Camping can also be problematic as can finding enough ancilliary support services as we require at a reasonable cost given the relative isolation of many ski areas.

Being a past Rally Co-Chair, I am sure you speak from a position of personal experience, and your insights are helpful.

I was thinking specifically of Killington, Vermont as a Ski Area model. Even if you didn't avail yourself of the ski slope village as the base, but rather the City of Rutland -- maybe even the State Fair Grounds -- you have tons of lodging, restaurants, and EXCELLENT RIDING all at your finger tips.

It's a tough logistical challenge for establishing a small motorcycle oriented city at a reasonable cost with volunteer labor for a weekend. That is not to say ski areas are incompatible with motorcycle events, as might be shown in the future.

Friedle

From what I've been able to glean, the site selection criteria seems to place an emphasis on INDOOR vendors, INDOOR seminars, INDOOR stadium seating, etc. This emphasis on INDOOR everything seems odd for a community of people who ride motorcycles rather than cars. What's wrong with, or so labor/cost intensive about, contracting for tents where needed for vendors, seminars, etc.

If the BMW MOA Rally Site Search Team isn't looking into Ski Resorts, they are ignoring a gem in rough.

[dancogan]

Quite a few years ago my bicycle club hosted the national bicycle rally, in East Lansing, MI on the campus of Michigan State University. The school provided very reasonable room rates in the dorms. Nobody camped. They provided excellent food service, paid for on an "as used" basis. They provided very comfortable, air conditioned class rooms for the seminars. Although we did not have a lot of vendors, most schools have some type of hall or gym which could easily accomodate indoor vendors. So how about the beer? Well, it is an institute of higher education. Beer is never more than a short walk from anywhere on campus! But I'm sure a license can be obtained for special events. Has the site selection committee considered using a major school or university as the rally site? :bikes
Oh, we were quite concerned that the terrain and landscape in mid-Michigan would not thrill the riders who came from all over the country. To the contrary, they loved the well thought out maps and routes that were provided, and the many small towns they got to visit.

[PGlaves]

Paul, I know your question wasn't directed at me -- and I've only recently rejoined the BMW brand after a 38-year absence, but I would be interested to get your assessment of the 1997 BMW MOA Rally in Texas.

Having ridden Texas Hill Country and the wonderful mix of surrounding small towns and large cities -- I would think somewhere in the Fredericksburg/Austin/San Antonio area would be a terriffic location for MOA Rally.

I really liked the Fredericksburg Rally. It took a lot of guts for the Board to have approved it, and before it happened it had as much bad press as Gillette. Even though the rally was in June instead of July it was going to be way to hot - all that way down there in Texas.

Then the week before the rally there were serious thunderstorm systems in Texas and some localized flooding in the Hill Country. Word spread that the rally site was under water, that we would all be floated away.

As it turned out the weather was a lot cooler than either the York, PA or Madison, IN rallies (and several others). Local riding was good of course. Camping was excellent - motels a bit costly, etc.

[kbasa]

From what I've been able to glean, the site selection criteria seems to place an emphasis on INDOOR vendors, INDOOR seminars, INDOOR stadium seating, etc. This emphasis on INDOOR everything seems odd for a community of people who ride motorcycles rather than cars. What's wrong with, or so labor/cost intensive about, contracting for tents where needed for vendors, seminars, etc.

If the BMW MOA Rally Site Search Team isn't looking into Ski Resorts, they are ignoring a gem in rough.

There are some items that are better and more easily managed indoors. For example, vendors have thousands of dollars of material that's easier to secure when it can be locked in a room at night. Indoor stadium seating is nice, but not a deal breaker if it's outside. Indoors seminars allow for presentations that can be heard. Speaking in a cow barn outdoors, competing with the noise of bikes, people walking by and the like isn't the best possible situation, so we like indoors.

Additionally, there's always the very real possibility of rain and having indoor space for people to shop, listen and walk around in is welcome.

[widebmw]

I talked to a vendor at the Lima, OH rally and she said that she thought she was smart getting an indoor booth. She thought it would be air conditioned.
You fooled her.

[kbasa]

I talked to a vendor at the Lima, OH rally and she said that she thought she was smart getting an indoor booth. She thought it would be air conditioned.
You fooled her.

It varies by location, of course.

[kenk]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

Out of the previous ten rallies, I have only had the opportunity to attend West Bend. I liked it. I thought the rally was well-organized and the riding was good around the site.

But that's the point. 88% of our members are not inspired by the locations MOA chooses to attend. If the rally is in a uninspiring location, I will ride to smaller local rallies like Sipapu, Petosi or Colorodo where I can enjoy the riding.

For the nine before it, I was a little busy deployed around the world serving my country. I would have attend Vermont or even Charleston, but deployments for the first and my wife's cancer during Charleston ruled that out. I could have attended Lima, OH, but could think of numerous places with better riding than Lima.

For many of us, it is about the ride and location.

[Rob Nye]

Gillette. hmmmm. nobody I mean NOBODY can convince anybody to smile about Gillette, you got to want to smile...and dream about the national in 08.

But the segment on this forum who are absolutely convinced to ruin the dreams of as many as possible of anybody who might have a dream of having fun in Gillette simply will not give up. Bound and detrmined...strike that FIXATED with the soul goal of convincing anyone who might be on the fence about having a good time at Gillette Rally not to go. Fixated in painting the rally, painting gillette, painting the ride to gillette BLACK :( Day after day the chant...the whine is the same.

Good god, are you all getting paid by some weirtd lobby group to try to destroy this national?

And don't tell me it's all because you care about the national or that if you don't speak up now other nationals are at risk of ending up in a place that's as bad or worse than Gillette...you care HA! Your point was made two months ago...Can it and let the rest of us enjoy our dream of a great ride, of a great rally, of a great opportunity to see old friends and meet new friends at the 08 Rally.

It appears to be a vendetta with the sole goal of ruining 08 rally cause you don't like Gillette, you don't like the location, sort of like a kid whose ice cream melt all over your hand before you had a chance to eat it; you are bound and determined to ruin everyone elses ice cream CAUSE YOU CAN simply by that nagging whine of an open mouth.

If you don't like Gillette DONT GO, QUIT WHINING sheesh enough of this horse manure.


for the record, since I am trying to be more civil...I respect your opinion, you believe in what you want, but I have to ask, please PLEASE just start a new thread, ok? Call it "NON CONSTRUCTIVE BITCHIN AND RANTING BY GILLETTE HATERS" You have the right for what ever reason to ruin it for the rest.... thata's your right. I just cant figure out why...

Red

ps go ahead tear it up...tear my opinion up, go for it...that seems to be what you do best, boys!

Plus like a billion.

It amazes me the length a few folks are going to and to what purpose?

My hero they are not.

[Rob Nye]

Greetings,

Ski Areas. As mentioned not enough flat space for camping except in dirt parking lots.

Killington. Yes huge place. Could easily support a National if there was no camping, however per person cost would be at least $75 per day before any rally expense or food. If you start start using Rutland state fairground we are back into a fragmented rally.

In Vermont there is only one site which is the Champlain Valley Expo. We were just there two years ago and yes it was one of the best sites of the last 10 for camping, vendors *and* roads.

University and college campus events.

When I was on the board this was researched in detail. Most colleges have activities all summer plus the grounds staff is very reluctant to allow motorcycles on the grass. We used a university campus in Charleston with field camping and dorm use. A little known fact is that while we were promised the use of the atheltic fields for camping the week before the event the Athletic Director said absolutely no way.

IMO the best solution I have heard recently is we give up on the policy of never going to the same site twice. I think we should consider the six to eight best sites (spread over the country) and have a rotation between them. The RSS would continue to look into new sites but it would relieve much of the pressure to come up with a home run every 12 months, especially when they are competing against memories of the best places.

I am willing to bet the grzzled rally rat wouldn't mind going back to Rhinebeck, Spokane, Redmond, Vermont or West Bend to name a few.

[dancogan]

...
University and college campus events.

When I was on the board this was researched in detail. Most colleges have activities all summer plus the grounds staff is very reluctant to allow motorcycles on the grass. We used a university campus in Charleston with field camping and dorm use. A little known fact is that while we were promised the use of the atheltic fields for camping the week before the event the Athletic Director said absolutely no way.
...

Great post, Rob, and to the points raised. I would only add the following: many universities, especially land grant colleges, have schools of agriculture, etc. At Michigan State, they have an indoor area for horse shows, with camping outside. Maybe there are camping areas at some of the larger schools that don't involve using the precious athletic facilities. Just thinkin. Thanks again.

[Beemerdons]

Just a grizzled rally rat checking in here! I have sat on the sidelines on this raging debate until now, but Rob N. has given voice to a common sense solution! There is no valid reason to have to reinvent the wheel every year.

It makes perfect common sense to give up on the policy of never going to the same site twice! All five of the Rally Sites that Rob mentioned were absolutely perfect venues for our BMWMOA International Rally. Here are five more blasts from the MOA Rally past that in my not-so-humble opinion were outstanding sites: Fredericksburg, Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca and Missoula; let's return to these again.

Holy Cow, these were all proven commodities once; they will be once again great rally sites for MOA in the future!

Don Stanley
MOA #24810
Chandler, AZ
www.azbeemers.org/forum

[Mika]

What are the steps that are required of us to put this very sensible idea in place?

[Visian]

I am willing to bet the grzzled rally rat wouldn't mind going back to Rhinebeck, Spokane, Redmond, Vermont or West Bend to name a few.

:thumb

[kbasa]

I agree. There are sites that have worked very well and we'd be foolish not to use them again.

I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this, but by applying some of the lessons we learned the first time around, Charleston might work better if we tried it again. The riding was pretty terrific, the city was reasonably welcoming, the weather was decent.

I'd go back to Redmond, Spokane, West Bend and Essex Junction in a heartbeat.

Now we need a site in the southwest, one in the Rockies (or other central region) and one in the southeast and we're set.

Help us find them, folks. We've put the rally site selection checklist right up there on the front page of the main site.

[Sue]

What are the steps that are required of us to put this very sensible idea in place?

Trust that your board of directors and also your rally site selection committee are reading these posts. Also, this idea has been discussed at board level in the past (as Rob noted)

[chasman]

There is no Board or MOA policy stating that we cannot revisit past rally sites. We've been to both Missoula, MT and Oshkosh, WI twice. We have also out grown many past sites including Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca, Missoula, and DuQuoin. Some previous sites will be used again in the future.


Chuck Manley
Rally Site Search Team

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Killington. Yes huge place. Could easily support a National if there was no camping, however per person cost would be at least $75 per day before any rally expense or food. If you start start using Rutland state fairground we are back into a fragmented rally.

In Vermont there is only one site which is the Champlain Valley Expo. We were just there two years ago and yes it was one of the best sites of the last 10 for camping, vendors *and* roads.

Only one site in all of Vermont??? Surely you jest.

I believe the Vermont State Fair facility in Rutland could easily host the MOA Rally. Has anyone spoken with them? I believe they have even hosted the MOA or RA previously.

There are hotels within walking distance, RV and camping facilities on site. Expo buildings, a grandstand, etc. And, there are mountains, scenic valleys and wonderful roads everywhere you look. Offsite there are more campgrounds and hotels as you get closer to Killington. Plus, I know Rutland would be the kind of town that would work hard with the MOA committe to make the Rally a success.

If a place like the Vermont State Fairgrounds in Rutland get rejected off-hand, I must have a completely wrong-headed idea about this whole topic.

[kenk]

Only one site in all of Vermont??? Surely you jest.

I believe the Vermont State Fair facility in Rutland could easily host the MOA Rally. Has anyone spoken with them? I believe they have even hosted the MOA or RA previously.

There are hotels within walking distance, RV and camping facilities on site. Expo buildings, a grandstand, etc. And, there are mountains, scenic valleys and wonderful roads everywhere you look. Offsite there are more campgrounds and hotels as you get closer to Killington. Plus, I know Rutland would be the kind of town that would work hard with the MOA committe to make the Rally a success.

If a place like the Vermont State Fairgrounds in Rutland get rejected off-hand, I must have a completely wrong-headed idea about this whole topic.

Just about any state fairgrounds exceeds the needs of MOA. West Bend was held at the Washington COUNTY Fairgrounds. It was a very nice facility. However, its not unique since many farm counties in the Midwest have equal or greater county facilities. South Dakota has a half dozen country fairgrounds; Rapid City, Aberdeen, Sioux Falls, Watertown, Mitchel along with a state fairgounds at Huron that meet the needs of MOA. However, other than Central State Fairgrounds at Rapid City, they all fail to provide the scenic venue with attractions that will encourage members to attend.

While passing through Kansas City today, I stopped at the BMW dealer (Engle Motors). While at Engles, I asked BMW owners that were there if they planned on attending Gillette? I gave no opinion of my own until after they answered the question. Every one of the BMW owners stated the same thing. No...because the location provides no scenic venue. One guy stated his son really wanted to go, but plans on taking him to the Colorado Rockies instead. These were all folks that were at a BMW dealership on a Wednesday afternoon. Most were retirees or had a flexible enough schedule to attend a rally.

I think BMWMOA has a real problem with Gillette. If we need to draw 5,000 folks to break even, you can't do that by only attracting our members that will attend no matter where you hold the rally. At West Bend, over 1800 BMWMOA members from Wisconsin attended the rally. However, only seven BMWMOA members at West Bend marked Wyoming as their home state. There will be a very small local draw. At West Bend, only 62% of the rally goers were BMWMOA members. Many of the attendees were locals riding other brands from Milwaukee or other large cities. I wouldn't predict a 38% draw of non-members at Gillette simply based on it's geographical locations and small population.

We all know that Gillette is a done deal for 2008. However, future site selection needs to ALWAY consider the 88% of our members that didn't attend West Bend. There are MANY Of US that have attended rallies in the past and enjoyed them, but decide each year based on the location. We have choices. Unlike the folks that always attend the rallies based on what occurs on the rally site, many of us like to browse the vendors, take a great scenic ride, and return for some entertainment. For us, we will wait until 2009 hoping for a more scenic venue.

Look folks...were all passionate about this because we are proud to be members and want BMWMOA to succeed. If we are looking at trying to attract 25% or 10,000 members, our rally site will have to consider the external draw before the internal requirement. This means sometimes you have to put the square peg in the round hole and compromise on internal requirements. The important items like shower and johns can be contracted anywhere.

The bottom line is the big draw is ALWAYS THE LOCATION. You would have very little complaining if the rally in 2008 was at Estes Park or the Grand Tetons.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

You would have very little complaining if the rally in 2008 was at Estes Park or the Grand Tetons.

If either of these locations had been picked, I'd be a happy camper -- even if I was there just last year!!!

[knary]

If either of these locations had been picked, I'd be a happy camper -- even if I was there just last year!!!

Can you find a site there that would work for the MOA? Even if you tweak those requirements? :ear

Please. Make it happen.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Can you find a site there that would work for the MOA? Even if you tweak those requirements? :ear

I won't hold my breath.

I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?

[knary]

I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?

I'm not on the selection team.

If you can find a place in Jackson Hole that we can use, please let us all know. Please tell those on the selection committee.

[Rob Nye]

I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?


Well exactly where in Jackson Hole are you suggesting?

Come on man, step up and deliver some results. The people who have run rallies and served on the site selection team are familiar with Jackson, what did we miss?

Be specific. Become part of the solution instead of a back bench whiner.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Well exactly where in Jackson Hole are you suggesting?

Come on man, step up and deliver some results. The people who have run rallies and served on the site selection team are familiar with Jackson, what did we miss?

Be specific. Become part of the solution instead of a back bench whiner.

This approach has worked for you before -- calling people names and then demanding they "deliver some results"? I'm not your pledge, and the MOA is not your personal frat house -- beer tent notwithstanding?

Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Can I de-pledge?

[DarrylRi]

If you're not going to help out, then you're just whining about what you don't like.

You've been to places you think would make a great rally venue. Look around, where will 5,000 people camp and 2,500 people stay in a motel? This is NOT GWRRA, the majority of people camp at the rally.

While Charleston may not have been the perfectly controlled experiment, it's clear that people don't want to camp far away from the center of activities. If you have an idea on how that can be reasonably accomplished, suggest it!

Even though you seem to feel that you're running into a great deal of negativity, what you're really running into is 35 years of experience at putting on a big camping rally. The selection criteria didn't materialize out of thin air, it's the result of experience at doing this.

[Rob Nye]

Ok I am sorry I called you a back bench whiner.

Now back to the topic at hand, you have dismissed the work and expertise of the Rally Site Selection committee, past rally chairs and former officers of the MOA who have visited Jackson Hole.

So again what did everyone miss?

[Beemerdons]

Dear Chuck,

Thanks for responding with the information that there is no Board or MOA policy stating that we can’t revisit past rally sites. That’s indeed great news and I was happy to hear it.

You did raise a red flag in my mind when you stated that we had outgrown Flagstaff as a Rally site, especially in light of the fact that Harley Owners Group alternates between Flagstaff and Tucson for the Arizona State Hog Rally and they have 15,000 riders there!

Everyone has given good advice so far, regarding putting your effort where your mouth is at, in terms of suggesting useful input for upcoming BMWMOA International Rallies.

I’m Metro Mechanical, Inc’s Senior Project Manager for the Pipefitting Division here in Phoenix and I’m salaried, which means that I get to work 80 hours a week for 40 hours pay; but it also means that I can set up my own schedule. As soon as I saw your post on my morning break at work, I figured what the heck, I’m overdue calling on my Flagstaff clients anyways in selling our pipefitting, heating, air conditioning and fire protection services; so I drove up to Flag and spent the night. In addition to calling on my clients - I spent my afternoon, evening and this morning (staying at Inn of America) checking it out.

I called on Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce, Northern Arizona University, Coconino Parks and Recreation, Arizona State Parks Department and National Parks Department.

I picked up hard copy information from everybody that I visited, but it is easier to view information on the internet so I have printed up a website resources list at the end of this.

Flagstaff would work perfect with one huge caveat, no beer tents are allowed anywhere.

I find myself wondering if our possessing the beer tent as our sacred ox, that cannot be gored, is preventing us from returning to Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca, Missoula, DuQuoin and other fine locations for a rally with really great scenic riding in the region.

If the beer tent is the Tail that’s wagging our BMWMOA Dog then you’re right in your statement that we’ve “outgrown” Flagstaff, and a whole lot of other possible rally venues.

When I mentioned the word beer tent to all of the parties above I just got the old fisheye!

Perhaps it’s time that we sacrificed the Sacred Beer Tent Cow in order to select rally sites, like Flagstaff, with outstanding BMW motorcycling riding opportunities in the immediate area. I’m as Irish as Paddy’s pig, and dearly love my Guinness and Harp after a work day or in the saddle; but riding my Beemers takes precedence over quaffing suds!

Yours truly, Don

www.flagstaff.az.gov www.flagstaffchamber.com www.go-arizona.com/Flagstaff www.flagstaff.cc/Flagstaff_Arizona http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff2%C_Arizona

[tourunigo]

I hope that sometime Calgary, just after the Stampede, will be able to host the rally. The Stampede can be the 'warm up act' for us. Then, just think of all the great riding slightly west of the city. Oh yes, it too is in America.:brow -Bob

[gulfcoastbeemer]

If you're not going to help out, then you're just whining about what you don't like.

You've been to places you think would make a great rally venue. Look around, where will 5,000 people camp and 2,500 people stay in a motel? This is NOT GWRRA, the majority of people camp at the rally.

While Charleston may not have been the perfectly controlled experiment, it's clear that people don't want to camp far away from the center of activities. If you have an idea on how that can be reasonably accomplished, suggest it!

Even though you seem to feel that you're running into a great deal of negativity, what you're really running into is 35 years of experience at putting on a big camping rally. The selection criteria didn't materialize out of thin air, it's the result of experience at doing this.

How can anyone help, if any suggestion of change is met with a condescending lecture and restatement of the absolute infalibility of the site selection process?

Before you have site selection criteria, you have an objective or purpose for the rally.

What is the objective of the MOA Rally? Gather the faithful? Make money? Promote the MOA? Continue a tradition?

How is the success of an MOA Rally measured? Attendance? Revenue? Member Statisfaction?

Are the following hallmarks of an MOA Rally essential to its continuance? The sale of inexpensive beer to attendees by and for the benefit of the MOA; On-site camping sufficient for two-thirds of the attendees; Single unified rally campus, including permanant structures to house vendors and seminars, and a grandstand for those requiring such a thing.

To an MOA Rally neophyte, it would appear some of what frustrates many is not 35 years of experience; but rather a convergence of the physical limitations of the real world with the inflexible ideological dogma of the MOA Rally Selection Process.

I would be fascinated to learn what sites were under consideration for the '08 Rally and why each was rejected. Wouldn't that put things in perspective?

[Rapid_Roy]

When I mentioned the word beer tent to all of the parties above I just got the old fisheye!

Perhaps it’s time that we sacrificed the Sacred Beer Tent Cow in order to select rally sites, like Flagstaff, with outstanding BMW motorcycling riding opportunities in the immediate area. I’m as Irish as Paddy’s pig, and dearly love my Guinness and Harp after a work day or in the saddle; but riding my Beemers takes precedence over quaffing suds!

Yours truly, Don

www.flagstaff.az.gov www.flagstaffchamber.com www.go-arizona.com/Flagstaff www.flagstaff.cc/Flagstaff_Arizona http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff2%C_Arizona

Well said. However, if 51% of our members want a beer tent (I dont know that, it's a w.a.g.), then the BMWMOA would not be meeting the needs of what the majority want , would they? It seems a vote on the beer tent vs great local riding roads (which I have found in most every state I have been in) is needed.

[knary]

Well said. However, if 51% of our members want a beer tent (I dont know that, it's a w.a.g.), then the BMWMOA would not be meeting the needs of what the majority want , would they? It seems a vote on the beer tent vs great local riding roads (which I have found in most every state I have been in) is needed.

That's an artificial choice that skews the discussion. The beer tent has become the lightning rod, but is no more of a deal breaker than some other criteria such as sufficient camping space.

[kenk]

Can you find a site there that would work for the MOA? Even if you tweak those requirements? :ear

Please. Make it happen.

Knary...that's the problem. The current criteria that rates Gillette as acceptable, may rate a location like Estes Park unacceptable for reasons that no longer represent the desires of our club. For many of you, the most important criteria is a beer tent. You should be thinking what location will draw the most participation. Participation will increase revenues far beyond a rally with half the participation with a beer tent.

Just in Colorado, BMWMOA should consider Estes Park, Durango Granby, Breckenridge, Castle Rock, Loveland, Longmont or Boulder, Colorado Springs or even Denver. Most is not all have the facilities to match the county fairgrounds at West Bend.

[knary]

Knary...that's the problem. The current criteria that rates Gillette as acceptable, may rate a location like Estes Park unacceptable for reasons that no longer represent the desires of our club. For many of you, the most important criteria is a beer tent. You should be thinking what location will draw the most participation. Participation will increase revenues far beyond a rally with half the participation with a beer tent.

Just in Colorado, BMWMOA should consider Estes Park, Durango Granby, Breckenridge, Castle Rock, Loveland, Longmont or Boulder, Colorado Springs or even Denver. Most is not all have the facilities to match the county fairgrounds at West Bend.

Do you know that or do they just seem like they'd work? :dunno

You are misrepresenting what has been said about the beer tent. It is one criteria of many. Most places don't offer enough camping space. But it's more fun to talk about beer.

[kenk]

Do you know that or do they just seem like they'd work? :dunno

You are misrepresenting what has been said about the beer tent. It is one criteria of many. Most places don't offer enough camping space. But it's more fun to talk about beer.

If you ask the members whether they would like a beer tent at a rally, I like many others would be in the 51% that answers yes. I love my beer and really enjoyed the beer tent at West Bend.

However, if you ask members if they preferred a beer tent in Gillette over a scenic tourist location with plenty of attraction, I believe the vast majority would vote against a beer tent. All members can BYOB.

I don't think I'm misrepresenting the beer tent issue at all. Recall Rob Nye's comment stating no beer tent - no rally. That implies a beer tent is the most important criteria from a former rally chair. :scratch :scratch

[Rapid_Roy]

That's an artificial choice that skews the discussion. The beer tent has become the lightning rod, but is no more of a deal breaker than some other criteria such as sufficient camping space.

Sorry, I didn't want to skew the discussion.
I am one of the "drunken idiots" that enjoys the rally wherever it is.
I like camping at the Nat'l, it's all part of the experience.
I could have lived without the Glockenspiel tho'. :stick :laugh

[wanderer]

What SPECIFIC site have you found that meets all our needs or all our needs except beer? Who did you contact? You have my attention, you have an audience, what SPECIFIC site?

:lurk

[cruise_carter]

The beer tent seems to be a HUGE deal in the rally selection.

With discounted beer, does the MOA make a boatload of profit?

As far as not having people get juiced and then ride their bikes, we are all adults who have to live with the decisions we take...make the registration form have a disclaimer absolving the MOA for any criminal acts you indulge in.

Why not select a site that has camping, hotels, vendor locales but something close to some 'watering holes' that would give us a proper discount, ie; show your wrist band and get discounted booze and food? Most watering holes would absolutely enjoy having several thousand potential customers, even with discounts they would rake in the cash. Have a site where the watering holes are within close walking distance and no one gets pinched for impaired driving.

Find a watering hole(s) that have entertainment each night and you have a solution.

Just my spin on this..
Dale

[kenk]

What SPECIFIC site have you found that meets all our needs or all our needs except beer? Who did you contact? You have my attention, you have an audience, what SPECIFIC site?

:lurk

I didn't contact anyone in Estes Park. I didn't need to. It's a fact Estes Park had a successful WingDing in Estes Park, with LARGER attendance, with plenty of camping space (have you seen their extra large trailers), with plenty of vendor and seminar space. Go ask GWWRRA how they did it. They obviously can think outside the box. Like our motorcycles manufacturer, our members tend to anal-retentive. We must follow the checklist! Change isn't always bad.

[Rob Nye]

If you ask the members whether they would like a beer tent at a rally, I like many others would be in the 51% that answers yes. I love my beer and really enjoyed the beer tent at West Bend.

However, if you ask members if they preferred a beer tent in Gillette over a scenic tourist location with plenty of attraction, I believe the vast majority would vote against a beer tent. All members can BYOB.

I don't think I'm misrepresenting the beer tent issue at all. Recall Rob Nye's comment stating no beer tent - no rally. That implies a beer tent is the most important criteria from a former rally chair. :scratch :scratch

It actually implies you will grab straws to support your arguement and that at the end of the day you have no clue.

[wanderer]

"Didn't contact anyone, Didn't need to"

As I expected. :brow

I can suggest a simple solution for you, join the "Wingdingers."

I don't need to contact the Wingdingers, I have no issues with the site selection committee and the job they are doing.

Anyone else have a qualified site?? :bikes

[kbasa]

I didn't contact anyone in Estes Park. I didn't need to. It's a fact Estes Park had a successful WingDing in Estes Park, with LARGER attendance, with plenty of camping space (have you seen their extra large trailers), with plenty of vendor and seminar space. Go ask GWWRRA how they did it. They obviously can think outside the box. Like our motorcycles manufacturer, our members tend to anal-retentive. We must follow the checklist! Change isn't always bad.

The GWRRA is a hotel rally, so all they need are hotels. We need a space to build a secure, fairly self contained village. If there's a spot in Estes Park or anywhere in CO that will meet what are immutable physical requirements, I want to go there.

Like I've said a half dozen times already, take the rally site selection form and visit the site or call them, if you think it will work. Like I've also said a half dozen times already, we want to know about viable sites.

We want to know about new spots, and we want to know about great spots, but the majority of our attendees are going to camp. The GWRRA does not camp.

I'm all for change. If you look at what the board has accomplished and the way this organization has changed in the last few years, you'll see that change is being wholeheartedly embraced by the organization.

But change has to result in a "product" that's better than the current offering. Eliminating beer or camping from a rally is not a better result than what we have now for the majority of our attendees.

Jeez. I've really got to stop responding to these threads. They hear, but they choose not to listen. :bluduh

[Braddog]

...there is some good discussion.

I'm addressing this to those that think the criteria used to select Gillette may not have provided the best site for a BMW MOA National Rally:

- Which current criteria needs updating? For example, as others have stated, this thread has made the beer tent somewhat of a lightning rod. OK, fine, so, in your opinion then, should the beer tent become a "nice to have" as opposed to a "must have"? BYOB would work for most, but are there sites out there that really want no alcohol on their premises at all?

- Another major requirement is a large amount of camping space. I don't mean to skew this discussion, and I'll give the disclaimer that it's been a long time since I reviewed the actual site criteria, BUT...could the criteria for the required number of camping spaces be lowered a bit? I have read some posts where it seems that more and more, people are hoteling it, maybe because of the age of the membership. If this number is lowered, would that open some doors?

- And, I'll take a shot at this one, is there a need to add a site selection criteria that would say something like: "Good riding roads within an hour of the rally site" or somesuch. By the way, who determines what a good riding road is? Is it a mountain twisty? Long, easy sweepers that have a historic site every 8-10 miles? A donut shop every 15 minutes? I've seen a lot of discussion about how Gillette doesn't have good riding within close proximity to the site, but what's the definition of "good riding", and how many motorcycle riders would agree on that definition?

By the way, even though I'm no kid, and a long time rider, I've only been to one national rally. For me personally, I really liked the West Bend site. It seemed to work very well.

[Hodag]

I've spent a few minutes lookin at/for rally sites in the past. Suggested a few, always recieved a response which was nice.
Found one today in brighton, co nice looking fairgrounds, close to denver, BUT beer concessions handled by others.

I would have paid more for that spot for beer and the rally

[bikerfish1100]

What SPECIFIC site have you found that meets all our needs or all our needs except beer? Who did you contact? You have my attention, you have an audience, what SPECIFIC site?

:lurk

Budweiser Events Center/The Ranch. That's the Larimer County Fairgrounds in Loveland. Qualifies on all but the beer sales- and even in that, beer is available on-site, but we would not "own" the distribution rights. And I was told in this forum that it was the beer sales issue that put the cancellation on that site.

[kbasa]

Budweiser Events Center/The Ranch. That's the Larimer County Fairgrounds in Loveland. Qualifies on all but the beer sales- and even in that, beer is available on-site, but we would not "own" the distribution rights. And I was told in this forum that it was the beer sales issue that put the cancellation on that site.

Please forward it to Visian. I'm sure he'd like to talk with them.

Thanks.

And thank you, lest I be rude.

[rkasal]

I still think we should consider Canada for maybe 2010. Wouldn't it be fun, not to mention cooler, to hook up with the Canadian BMW club? Don't want to divert from the current discussion but just but a bug in your heads for the future.

Regards,


Randy Kasal

[Sue]

Hi Randy

We went to Trenton, Ontario in 2002. Those of us who went had a perfectly MARVELOUS time. Spending time with those Scots in the Beer Garden after they did a rousing Bag Pipe performance was without any doubt one of my all-time favorite rally memories.

But the issues with crossing the border and the hassles for our regular vendors was a problem. Despite the wonderful rally and beautiful location, we had a fairly small member turnout. There were a number of behind-the-scenes issues that made planning that Rally a true challenge. :banghead

Hats off to Don Faichney (the Kiltmeister) and the BMW MOA staff work jumping through all of those hoops to make it the great party that it was!

On the other hand, I am not sure that the BMW MOA would try it again.

[widebmw]

There was a BMWMOA international rally in Trenton, Ontario in 2002.
We went and had a good time but overall I think that attendance was down.
As I remember there was a problem with what vendors could attend and what they could bring with them and tax and customs problems.

[cruisincruzan]

There is some benefit to anything that generates discussion, (although even with this "hot" topic only a very small % of members are involved). Through the rhetoric and blustering the overall impression I get is that our rallies have been by and large a great success. There doesn't seem to be something that requires a massive fix because it isn't broken, but could probably stand a bit of "tweaking". I like the idea of using particularly successful venues on a rotating basis (and would be very happy at returning to Essex Junction). I do not believe that our elected representatives have done anything but been open about the process when questions have been asked, encouraged ideas, and they have not presented their views in a way that makes me fell they are not open to new ideas. Perhaps a vote tied in with elections about choosing the repeating venues. A committee could be formed to pick a few choices from each region that we could vote on (assuming that is the way we go). As for the regions that were mentioned that we are still looking for places we can see how a rally goes in that area and then decide if it is a place that we want to rotate to. Even with a rotation system I think it would be possible to explore a new venue on occasion. My bottom line our rallies seem to be working well, can you get a rally that doesn't appeal to you, absolutely, but that doesn't mean a major fix is needed. More likely it is the odds catching up with you that this one isn't your cup of tea. No biggy, next year will offer something different.

[bikerfish1100]

I still think we should consider Canada for maybe 2010. Wouldn't it be fun, not to mention cooler, to hook up with the Canadian BMW club? Don't want to divert from the current discussion but just but a bug in your heads for the future.

Regards,


Randy Kasal

sure, we could go BACK there. (Trenton Ontario, 2002). It was a fabulous site- posssibly the best camping location we've had in last 10 years. However, the vendor participation was VERY weak, due to border issues. Many of those that did get through the border would not return (or so they told me). [sorry for the repetitive nature of this post- you other folks are faster than me].

[kbasa]

There is some benefit to anything that generates discussion, (although even with this "hot" topic only a very small % of members are involved). Through the rhetoric and blustering the overall impression I get is that our rallies have been by and large a great success. There doesn't seem to be something that requires a massive fix because it isn't broken, but could probably stand a bit of "tweaking". I like the idea of using particularly successful venues on a rotating basis (and would be very happy at returning to Essex Junction). I do not believe that our elected representatives have done anything but been open about the process when questions have been asked, encouraged ideas, and they have not presented their views in a way that makes me fell they are not open to new ideas. Perhaps a vote tied in with elections about choosing the repeating venues. A committee could be formed to pick a few choices from each region that we could vote on (assuming that is the way we go). As for the regions that were mentioned that we are still looking for places we can see how a rally goes in that area and then decide if it is a place that we want to rotate to. Even with a rotation system I think it would be possible to explore a new venue on occasion. My bottom line our rallies seem to be working well, can you get a rally that doesn't appeal to you, absolutely, but that doesn't mean a major fix is needed. More likely it is the odds catching up with you that this one isn't your cup of tea. No biggy, next year will offer something different.

The voice of reason.

[wanderer]

The Larimer County fairgrounds is indeed an excellent suggestion. All kinds of mountain rides close at hand. BMW of Ft. Collins is almost within bike pushing distance. Central to both Denver and the entire Front Range. Easy access from I70, I 80, and right on I 25. Lots to see and do in Ft. Collins, Loveland, and just up the hill to Rocky Mountain Nat. Park and lots of other stuff. I don't kow if it would be a fit for the MOA or not, but at first blush, an excellent venue to be explored. :thumb

[DarrylRi]

So, I went to the Larimer County Fairgrounds/The Ranch web site (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/theranch/) -- something that a lot of people here seem to have a hard time doing.

The Ranch has a ton of indoor space. No problems there!

There didn't seem to be any specifics about camping other that it says "limited RV hookups" and "ample dry camping", whatever that means. The site plan (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/theRanch/images/site_plan_590.jpg) does show some RV space. But it was hard to tell how much camping space was available.

So, I went to Google maps... and using a ruler against my screen, estimated that the entire area is about 130 acres, which should be quite sufficient, if we can camp there.

But then, there was the first hitch. I switched to the "hybrid" mode, and this is what The Ranch looks like: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.444661,-104.987025&spn=0.01277,0.014334&t=h&z=16&om=1

Maybe they've done some landscaping, but the entire grounds appear to be dirt.

Then, I found this under the FAQs listing:

What type of catering is available?

All catering and concessions is done in-house through Ovations. No outside food vendors, beverage vendors, concessions or caterers allowed. For more information and details, call Ovations at 970-619-4055.

Do you allow alcohol?

In accordance with the rules and regulations of the State of Colorado, it is against the law for a tenant, exhibitor or patron to bring alcoholic beverages into the building for any purpose. All arrangements for alcoholic beverages must be made through The Ranch and Ovations.

This is a little iffy, they're talking about the various exhibition buildings here. Will it be possible for individuals to BYOB into the camping areas? I can't tell from the web site.

I certainly agree that having a rally on CO's front range would be really excellent, and I personally wouldn't care if I had to pay $8 more for the rally and $5 for Bud (which I wouldn't buy). If I wasn't allowed to BMOB onto the fairgrounds, I might be somewhat disgruntled, but it wouldn't keep me away. (Surely they'll never find that flask of Maker's in my gear pack! ;)) But I'm not ready to camp in the dirt....

[rkasal]

Hi Randy

We went to Trenton, Ontario in 2002. Those of us who went had a perfectly MARVELOUS time. Spending time with those Scots in the Beer Garden after they did a rousing Bag Pipe performance was without any doubt one of my all-time favorite rally memories.

But the issues with crossing the border and the hassles for our regular vendors was a problem. Despite the wonderful rally and beautiful location, we had a fairly small member turnout. There were a number of behind-the-scenes issues that made planning that Rally a true challenge. :banghead

Hats off to Don Faichney (the Kiltmeister) and the BMW MOA staff work jumping through all of those hoops to make it the great party that it was!

On the other hand, I am not sure that the BMW MOA would try it again.


So Mexico would be out of the question? :)

Regards,


Randy Kasal

[Coloradoclc]

I know there are not paid positions...we rely on volunteers to support the rally functions. However, I thought a local BMW club provided a portion of the "labor"and is a prerequisite to choosing a site? I don't think there is a BMW club in WY?? I think the nearest one is Sturgis?

How does this work? I've only been a member a bit over 3yrs.

[PGlaves]

I am going to repeat something I posted earlier on one of these threads and be just a bit more pointed. Fairgrounds sometimes are great facilities. And some fairgrounds are not. I have presented from 3 to 6 seminars at every rally for the past 10 or 11 years or so.

My days spent trying to present seminars in dusty cattle or sheep sheds, in 95 or 100 degree heat, trying to talk over the din of roaring livestock cooling fans - or trying to talk in competition with the adjacent oom pah pah band or other entertainment - are numbered, and the number is getting pretty small.

Whether seminars are important to you or not, I get the impression that they are important to a lot of rally goers. Otherwise I wouldn't spend anywhere from 5 to 10 hours of my time doing them. And neither would a whole lot of other volunteer presenters.

Site suggesters, site selection folks, and rally planners need to pay a lot of attention to seminar spaces - adequate size, suitable temperature, reasonably quiet, and neither dusty nor muddy.

Only one of lots of considerations, but just because a fairgrounds is enough acres and enough roof doesn't make it a good site from a seminars perspective.

[osbornk]

I still think we should consider Canada for maybe 2010. Wouldn't it be fun, not to mention cooler, to hook up with the Canadian BMW club? Don't want to divert from the current discussion but just but a bug in your heads for the future.

Regards,


Randy Kasal

With all the problems with border crossings in 2002, the new passport requirements and homeland security precautions would make it much harder in the future. Many of us don't need a passport and this requirement would add $100 (or whatever) to our expenses and be an aggravation. The passport requiement would also diminish attendance of spur of the moment members and us procrastinators.

[manicmechanic]

re: Trenton 2002. I absolutely loved the place. However, with all the noise I'm hearing about Gillette, does anybody care to remember all the complaints about going across the border, and what can I take, and what about my rights, etc. I go to the National to go to someplace I probably haven't been before. It's not all about the site, but the trip there and back, and the people at the rally and along the way. If you don't or won't or are planning on not liking the place without ever having been there, fine. Don't go. But I plan on being there, serving beer as usual, and doing whatever else comes to mind at the time. I plan on enjoying not only the rally, but the trip. For those who are planning on being there, I look forward to seeing you there. For those who want to be there but can't, we'll miss you and have a cold one in your honor. For the whiners, it'll be your loss.

[cruisincruzan]

This summer my wife and I visited a friend about 30 miles from where 81 goes into Canada and when we were going back into NY we were on line so long that I had to shut down by RT and crab walk it to the passport officer to prevent it from overheating.

[Rapid_Roy]

Hang on, it will be fine.

Spoilsport! You just showed everybody all the curves in Wyoming (well, the east part anyway) :laugh

[Beemerdons]

Saludos y Buenos Dias,

I like what rkasal said, let's start planning a BMWMOA Rally for Northern Mexico in 2010. Many MOA members and participants on this Forum have attended the Mexico BMW National Rally and the Mexican BMW riders have always shown us a great party; it think it's time we reciprocated. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America.

A perfect location, if we can agree to allow the Rally to be in the summer fringe months of May or September, would be Ciudad Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico.

We Zonies and Calis refer to this beautiful Sea of Cortez fishing village as Rocky Point. It is 250 miles south of Phoenix and 200 miles southwest of Tucson.

Rocky Point is just 60 miles south of the International Border Crossing which is inside of Organ Pipe Cactus Park. Puerto Penasco certainly has everything that we need, as once again Harley Owners Group has used this town for their HOG Rallies and they bring 15,000 people to these events. I can guarantee that a beer tent would no problemo! We would enjoy camping and fishing on a beach.

The advantage to Puerto Penasco is it's in a Mexican "free zone"; which means no Vehicle Import Permit and No Tourist Permit required for less than 7 days duration.

The border crossing is quick and easy! You'll need Mexican insurance for the bike; we in AZ Beemers usually use www.mexpro.com in Flagstaff for our bike insurance.

Go to www.puerto-penasco.com and www.penasco.com and look at Rocky Point.

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.

My Spanish is good, I'll contact BMW MOA Ambassador Ruben Tenorio in Xochimilco, Oaxaca and ask for his thoughts on having a International Rally in Rocky Point.

Recuerdos,

Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"

aka Don Stanley MOA #24810
beemerdons@aol.com www.azbeemers.org

[kenk]

Saludos y Buenos Dias,

I like what rkasal said, let's start planning a BMWMOA Rally for Northern Mexico in 2010. Many MOA members and participants on this Forum have attended the Mexico BMW National Rally and the Mexican BMW riders have always shown us a great party; it think it's time we reciprocated. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America.

A perfect location, if we can agree to allow the Rally to be in the summer fringe months of May or September, would be Ciudad Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico.

We Zonies and Calis refer to this beautiful Sea of Cortez fishing village as Rocky Point. It is 250 miles south of Phoenix and 200 miles southwest of Tucson.

Rocky Point is just 60 miles south of the International Border Crossing which is inside of Organ Pipe Cactus Park. Puerto Penasco certainly has everything that we need, as once again Harley Owners Group has used this town for their HOG Rallies and they bring 15,000 people to these events. I can guarantee that a beer tent would no problemo! We would enjoy camping and fishing on a beach.

The advantage to Puerto Penasco is it's in a Mexican "free zone"; which means no Vehicle Import Permit and No Tourist Permit required for less than 7 days duration.

The border crossing is quick and easy! You'll need Mexican insurance for the bike; we in AZ Beemers usually use www.mexpro.com in Flagstaff for our bike insurance.

Go to www.puerto-penasco.com and www.penasco.com and look at Rocky Point.

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.

My Spanish is good, I'll contact BMW MOA Ambassador Ruben Tenorio in Xochimilco, Oaxaca and ask for his thoughts on having a International Rally in Rocky Point.

Recuerdos,

Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"

aka Don Stanley MOA #24810
beemerdons@aol.com www.azbeemers.org

Why not host a local rally first, so member can attend your rally, gain your enthusiasm, and help you sell it in the future. If nothing else, your helping the club be more of an international organization.

[kenk]

How about the Larimer County Fairgrounds near Loveland, Colorado. This place looks great.

http://www.larimer.org/theranch/about.cfm

Check out the photos. Plenty of grass and very close to a great BMW dealer. This looks almost too good to be true.

Thoughts.

[DarrylRi]

How about the Larimer County Fairgrounds near Loveland, Colorado. This place looks great.

http://www.larimer.org/theranch/about.cfm

Check out the photos. Plenty of grass and very close to a great BMW dealer. This looks almost too good to be true.

Thoughts.

Here's the reply I made yesterday to your suggestion:

So, I went to the Larimer County Fairgrounds/The Ranch web site (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/theranch/) -- something that a lot of people here seem to have a hard time doing.

The Ranch has a ton of indoor space. No problems there!

There didn't seem to be any specifics about camping other that it says "limited RV hookups" and "ample dry camping", whatever that means. The site plan (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/theRanch/images/site_plan_590.jpg) does show some RV space. But it was hard to tell how much camping space was available.

So, I went to Google maps... and using a ruler against my screen, estimated that the entire area is about 130 acres, which should be quite sufficient, if we can camp there.

But then, there was the first hitch. I switched to the "hybrid" mode, and this is what The Ranch looks like: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.444661,-104.987025&spn=0.01277,0.014334&t=h&z=16&om=1

Maybe they've done some landscaping, but the entire grounds appear to be dirt.

Then, I found this under the FAQs listing:
What type of catering is available?

All catering and concessions is done in-house through Ovations. No outside food vendors, beverage vendors, concessions or caterers allowed. For more information and details, call Ovations at 970-619-4055.

Do you allow alcohol?

In accordance with the rules and regulations of the State of Colorado, it is against the law for a tenant, exhibitor or patron to bring alcoholic beverages into the building for any purpose. All arrangements for alcoholic beverages must be made through The Ranch and Ovations.
This is a little iffy, they're talking about the various exhibition buildings here. Will it be possible for individuals to BYOB into the camping areas? I can't tell from the web site.

I certainly agree that having a rally on CO's front range would be really excellent, and I personally wouldn't care if I had to pay $8 more for the rally and $5 for Bud (which I wouldn't buy). If I wasn't allowed to BMOB onto the fairgrounds, I might be somewhat disgruntled, but it wouldn't keep me away. (Surely they'll never find that flask of Maker's in my gear pack! ;)) But I'm not ready to camp in the dirt....

[rkasal]

Saludos y Buenos Dias,

I like what rkasal said, let's start planning a BMWMOA Rally for Northern Mexico in 2010. Many MOA members and participants on this Forum have attended the Mexico BMW National Rally and the Mexican BMW riders have always shown us a great party; it think it's time we reciprocated. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America.

A perfect location, if we can agree to allow the Rally to be in the summer fringe months of May or September, would be Ciudad Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico.

We Zonies and Calis refer to this beautiful Sea of Cortez fishing village as Rocky Point. It is 250 miles south of Phoenix and 200 miles southwest of Tucson.

Rocky Point is just 60 miles south of the International Border Crossing which is inside of Organ Pipe Cactus Park. Puerto Penasco certainly has everything that we need, as once again Harley Owners Group has used this town for their HOG Rallies and they bring 15,000 people to these events. I can guarantee that a beer tent would no problemo! We would enjoy camping and fishing on a beach.

The advantage to Puerto Penasco is it's in a Mexican "free zone"; which means no Vehicle Import Permit and No Tourist Permit required for less than 7 days duration.

The border crossing is quick and easy! You'll need Mexican insurance for the bike; we in AZ Beemers usually use www.mexpro.com in Flagstaff for our bike insurance.

Go to www.puerto-penasco.com and www.penasco.com and look at Rocky Point.

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.

My Spanish is good, I'll contact BMW MOA Ambassador Ruben Tenorio in Xochimilco, Oaxaca and ask for his thoughts on having a International Rally in Rocky Point.

Recuerdos,

Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"

aka Don Stanley MOA #24810
beemerdons@aol.com www.azbeemers.org


That sounds great! I'm in. Even if they don't have a rally there, I'm in. We can just do it.

[kenk]

Here's the reply I made yesterday to your suggestion:

I think we need a local of check this out and determine how we can make it work. A lot of folks would volunteer to camp at other locations like Estes Park, so the camping is not a huge issue. The photos do show a ton of grass.

I would pass $5 a beer to be up against the rookies, riding Bike Thompson canyon and Poudre canyon.

[rkasal]

Saludos y Buenos Dias,

I like what rkasal said, let's start planning a BMWMOA Rally for Northern Mexico in 2010. Many MOA members and participants on this Forum have attended the Mexico BMW National Rally and the Mexican BMW riders have always shown us a great party; it think it's time we reciprocated. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America.

A perfect location, if we can agree to allow the Rally to be in the summer fringe months of May or September, would be Ciudad Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico.

We Zonies and Calis refer to this beautiful Sea of Cortez fishing village as Rocky Point. It is 250 miles south of Phoenix and 200 miles southwest of Tucson.

Rocky Point is just 60 miles south of the International Border Crossing which is inside of Organ Pipe Cactus Park. Puerto Penasco certainly has everything that we need, as once again Harley Owners Group has used this town for their HOG Rallies and they bring 15,000 people to these events. I can guarantee that a beer tent would no problemo! We would enjoy camping and fishing on a beach.

The advantage to Puerto Penasco is it's in a Mexican "free zone"; which means no Vehicle Import Permit and No Tourist Permit required for less than 7 days duration.

The border crossing is quick and easy! You'll need Mexican insurance for the bike; we in AZ Beemers usually use www.mexpro.com in Flagstaff for our bike insurance.

Go to www.puerto-penasco.com and www.penasco.com and look at Rocky Point.

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.

My Spanish is good, I'll contact BMW MOA Ambassador Ruben Tenorio in Xochimilco, Oaxaca and ask for his thoughts on having a International Rally in Rocky Point.

Recuerdos,

Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"

aka Don Stanley MOA #24810
beemerdons@aol.com www.azbeemers.org

Hola amigo,

Mándeme por favor información acerca de la reunión de México.

Gracias,


Randy Kasal

[Beemerdons]

Dear Randy and kenk,

If your schedules will allow it, please consider joining AZ Beemers on our quarterly ride to Mexico. For the last 13 years, every 3 months like clockwork, I've been leading AZ Beemers on foreign adventures. Usually we ride to Mexico or Canada, but we went to the Alps in October of 2004; Andalucia, Spain in February of 2006; Alps again in May of 2007; and we're going to Barcelona, Spain in May-June of 2008 to ride the Pyrenees, Andorra, Costa Brava and Asturas.

I see that you both come from snow country, so you'd be welcome to bring your Beemers down on trailers and please feel free to park your rigs in my driveway.

I just have a two bedroom home, but you guys would be welcome to them, and I would sleep on the couch the night before and the night after this Mexico trip.

If you can spend a fifth day's riding on this trip, we would divert from the group on Mexico Route 15 at Santa Ana, go through Caborca, and spend the night in Rocky Point. I would like your honest opinions on Puerto Penasco for a rally site!

Sincerely yours, Don



"We AZ Beemers Ride to beautiful Bahia Kino; Sonora, Mexico; February 15-18, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senor Chuy Medina loves riding in Mexico with AZ Beemers amigos y amigas! I've just returned from a week's ride to Mexico's awesome Copper Canyon, Barrancas del Cobre, and I have already planned our next adventure South of the Border! Over February 15-18, 2008 - AZ Beemers will be riding to Bahia Kino in the Mexican State of Sonora; February 18th is the Martin Luther King Holiday.

We will be staying at the Hotel Posada del Mar, located across the road from the beach on beautiful grounds, walkways, swimming pools and covered patios. You can even park your bike in the hotel lobby. Phone is 624-2-01-55 and the Fax is 242-2-01-55.

Please check out Bahia Kino yourself by looking up: www.tourbymexico.com/sonora/kino/kino.htm or www.gotosonora.com/kino-bay-sonora.htm

Nice thing about riding to Bahia Kino is the ease of obtaining the new "Sonora Only Permit"; which requires only a fifteen minute stop in Nogales.

Do you need any more information on this trip? Please private message Senor Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina" aka Don Stanley at beemerdons@aol.com or call me at mi casa at 480-917-3863."

[wackettrw]

Saludos y Buenos Dias,

I like what rkasal said, let's start planning a BMWMOA Rally for Northern Mexico in 2010. Many MOA members and participants on this Forum have attended the Mexico BMW National Rally and the Mexican BMW riders have always shown us a great party; it think it's time we reciprocated. BMW Motorcycle Owners of America.

A perfect location, if we can agree to allow the Rally to be in the summer fringe months of May or September, would be Ciudad Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico.

We Zonies and Calis refer to this beautiful Sea of Cortez fishing village as Rocky Point. It is 250 miles south of Phoenix and 200 miles southwest of Tucson.

Rocky Point is just 60 miles south of the International Border Crossing which is inside of Organ Pipe Cactus Park. Puerto Penasco certainly has everything that we need, as once again Harley Owners Group has used this town for their HOG Rallies and they bring 15,000 people to these events. I can guarantee that a beer tent would no problemo! We would enjoy camping and fishing on a beach.

The advantage to Puerto Penasco is it's in a Mexican "free zone"; which means no Vehicle Import Permit and No Tourist Permit required for less than 7 days duration.

The border crossing is quick and easy! You'll need Mexican insurance for the bike; we in AZ Beemers usually use www.mexpro.com in Flagstaff for our bike insurance.

Go to www.puerto-penasco.com and www.penasco.com and look at Rocky Point.

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.

My Spanish is good, I'll contact BMW MOA Ambassador Ruben Tenorio in Xochimilco, Oaxaca and ask for his thoughts on having a International Rally in Rocky Point.

Recuerdos,

Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"

aka Don Stanley MOA #24810
beemerdons@aol.com www.azbeemers.org

Other than for the heat in July, I would love to attend a BMWMOA rally in Mexico.

[wackettrw]

How about the Larimer County Fairgrounds near Loveland, Colorado. This place looks great.

http://www.larimer.org/theranch/about.cfm

Check out the photos. Plenty of grass and very close to a great BMW dealer. This looks almost too good to be true.

Thoughts.

Looks good to me. Love Colorado!

[rkasal]

Dear Randy and kenk,

If your schedules will allow it, please consider joining AZ Beemers on our quarterly ride to Mexico. For the last 13 years, every 3 months like clockwork, I've been leading AZ Beemers on foreign adventures. Usually we ride to Mexico or Canada, but we went to the Alps in October of 2004; Andalucia, Spain in February of 2006; Alps again in May of 2007; and we're going to Barcelona, Spain in May-June of 2008 to ride the Pyrenees, Andorra, Costa Brava and Asturas.

I see that you both come from snow country, so you'd be welcome to bring your Beemers down on trailers and please feel free to park your rigs in my driveway.

I just have a two bedroom home, but you guys would be welcome to them, and I would sleep on the couch the night before and the night after this Mexico trip.

If you can spend a fifth day's riding on this trip, we would divert from the group on Mexico Route 15 at Santa Ana, go through Caborca, and spend the night in Rocky Point. I would like your honest opinions on Puerto Penasco for a rally site!

Sincerely yours, Don



"We AZ Beemers Ride to beautiful Bahia Kino; Sonora, Mexico; February 15-18, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senor Chuy Medina loves riding in Mexico with AZ Beemers amigos y amigas! I've just returned from a week's ride to Mexico's awesome Copper Canyon, Barrancas del Cobre, and I have already planned our next adventure South of the Border! Over February 15-18, 2008 - AZ Beemers will be riding to Bahia Kino in the Mexican State of Sonora; February 18th is the Martin Luther King Holiday.

We will be staying at the Hotel Posada del Mar, located across the road from the beach on beautiful grounds, walkways, swimming pools and covered patios. You can even park your bike in the hotel lobby. Phone is 624-2-01-55 and the Fax is 242-2-01-55.

Please check out Bahia Kino yourself by looking up: www.tourbymexico.com/sonora/kino/kino.htm or www.gotosonora.com/kino-bay-sonora.htm

Nice thing about riding to Bahia Kino is the ease of obtaining the new "Sonora Only Permit"; which requires only a fifteen minute stop in Nogales.

Do you need any more information on this trip? Please private message Senor Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina" aka Don Stanley at beemerdons@aol.com or call me at mi casa at 480-917-3863."

I had planned on skiing then but I'll see what I can do. That certainly sounds fun. Let me ask you, is the trip all paved or are there some "adventure" off-road portions? I think the best thing to do for me is to rent a bike there before I cross the border. Who around there rents BMW's?

And thanks for your hospitality.


Randy Kasal

[KGT1200]

How about the Larimer County Fairgrounds near Loveland, Colorado. This place looks great.

http://www.larimer.org/theranch/about.cfm

Check out the photos. Plenty of grass and very close to a great BMW dealer. This looks almost too good to be true.

Thoughts.

Good God we finally agree on somthing!

The beer situation is true, Bud came to town a few years back and BOUGHT the town (no new jobs but that drought stricken area now has a piss brewery)

However Kenk, you are on the right track. Larimer County is big, has infrastructure, and I'm not so sure the brew thing couldn't be worked on with the greedy little county commissioners; Bud may not have it as wrapped as it seems...


My back yard for over 40 years, and I agree, the riding is great, the area would support what BMW has to offer. But so would Greeley, so would Cheyenne, so would Estes Park. Just got to market BMWMOA, spend some time, and this area might produce what you and I are looking for...

Meanwhile I will enjoy the heck out of Gillette!:thumb

[bikerfish1100]

thanx for mentioning Greeley, CO. how about here.. http://www.greeleygov.com/Parks/islandgrove_facilities.aspx
Its a gorgeous complex, lots of green lawn (a rarity in this part of CO), new buildings, etc etc.
It's 25 miles to I-25 and Loveland/Ft Collins, about 60 miles outside of Denver, 60 miles to RMNP and the Front Range mountains. Greeley does tend to be "warmer" than Loveland area, as its really the last big town on the Great Plains, but certainly no worse than Gillette, or anywhere else we're likely to end up in mid-July (unless we can find something on the ocean or in the mountains).

[Beemerdons]

Hola Randy,

All of the roads AZ Beemers will be riding on the Bahia Kino trip will be paved. The rider mounts are broken down accordingly: Third on RT's of various years, third on GS's of various years and a third of K bikes of various years. I just may be riding my Yamaha FJR 1300, since I no longer trust BMW final drives when I get to 400+ miles south of the Border; which is the same reason I now ride my FJR to Alaska!

We are luckily blessed with two outstanding BMW dealers here in the State of Arizona: BMW Motorcycles of Scottsdale and Iron Horse Motorcycles in Tucson.

I'll check with Josh and David Slepak, owners of Scottsdale BMW and really good guys, and see if they know of any BMW rentals that you can take into Mexico.

I would like for you to contact John Cartwright, owner of Iron Horse, and see what he knows of this. sales@ironhorsemotorcycles.com John's a great guy too!

Recuerdos, Chuy

BMW MOA #24810
www.azbeemers.org
beemerdons@aol.com
Home: 480-917-3863

[Mike M]

Don't write off Gillette just yet! Last July I went on a trip from Denver through eastern Wyoming into Sundance and then through South Dakota's Black Hills. It was a great time with some excellent riding.

At the upcoming National I'm going to take Rharrod's suggested ride from Gillette to Red Lodge, MT, Beartooth Pass, Cody and back to Gillette since I just did the Black Hills last year, but for those who haven't...

Heading north in eastern Wyoming...
http://blackgs12.smugmug.com/photos/175801407-M.jpg

Rolling toward Devils Tower (you can see it in the distance, if you look hard)
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801553-M.jpg

My previous rig in front of the Tower...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801587-M.jpg

At the Trading Post...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801595-M.jpg

Nice walking trail around the base of the Tower...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801635-M.jpg

There was an antique car gathering that weekend in Sundance...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801796-M.jpg

Typical Black Hill riding...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175802096-M.jpg

The Town of Keystone, the gateway to Mount Rushmore...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801894-M.jpg

Ten minutes up the road from Keystone...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175801976-M.jpg

Quite a spectacle as you approach...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175802001-M.jpg

At dawn, heading out of town and going home...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175802156-M.jpg

Lots of this, heading south through eastern Wyoming...
http://BlackGS12.smugmug.com/photos/175802031-M.jpg

[Visian]

If the Rally Selection Committee wants to pursue an International Rally in Northern Mexico further, we in AZ Beemers, MOA Club #89 would be glad to do legwork and research; and I am sure that Deryle and Wanda Mehrten over at South East Arizona Touring Riders #213 would also would be willing to lend a hand.


don - while i can't speak officially for the RSST, my thought is to first research the tax and import/export situation for the vendors.

the rally in trenton, ontario was fantastic, but the logistics relative to these issues were very painful for the vendors and it's safe to assume that they would not attend another outside-the-country rally.

that said, i personally would love a rally in mexico. i went to cuernavaca in 2003 (http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1368) and let me tell you, our mexican friends really know how to stage a rally.

ian

[Beemerdons]

Saludos Ian,

If your schedule will allow you to fly into Phoenix the evening before 2/15 and back home after 2/18, please consider joining our trip to Bahia Kino, Sonora, MEX.

I'll pick you up at PHX aeropuerto and you would be welcome to stay in my son Seth's room. You would be welcome to ride my Kawasaki KLR 650 along with we AZ Beemers to Bahia Kino and enjoy three nights on the beautiful Sea of Cortez.

Details on this trip here: http://www.azbeemers.org/forum/index.php?topic=653.0

Many of we AZ Beemers already do extensive business in the Mexican State of Sonora. I am the Senior Project Manager of the Pipefitting Division of Metro Mechanical, Inc. and we work in the Ford Motor Company Assembly Plant in Hermosillo. Hermosillo is the Sonoran State Capitol and we have many contacts.

One of the most active members of AZ Beemers is Senor Martin Osete, born and raised in Nogales, Mexico; Mechanical Engineering Degree from the University of Guadalajara and attended the International Culinary Institute in Madrid, Espana.

www.micatering.com is the well known Scottsdale catering business of Martin's.

Martin's childhood friends, who're now successful businessmen in Hermosillo, may be staying at la playa with us. We'll discuss the tax and import/export situation with them. Sonora and Arizona now have mutual business exchange programs.

Debe venir a visitarnos! Me escribira? beemerdons@aol.com Cuanto tiempo va a quedarse? If the BMWMOA RSST sees the Sea of Cortez they'll be sold on Sonora!

Recuerdos, Chuy

[amiles]

I don't care what anyone says, I plan to be at the rally and have a good time. Hot weather, cold weather dust or rain I will be there and I will have a wonderful time!
I have great confidence in the rally chairs and everyone who will spend their precious time making their best attempts to see that I enjoy myself.

I have attended only 6 nationals in my time, the only disappointments were Rutland 1978, which all in all probably wasn't all that bad. and Charleston Wv 2003 which was a bit frustrating, but I wouldn't have missed for anything.

I wish that those being critical would "lighten up" attend and enjoy the positives. I hope to see all of you there and share a guilty smile of enjoyment with you.

I hope to see Karol and Deb and give them my warmest thanks for their untiring efforts to allow me to have a wonderful time.