new BMW MOA site services & features

[knary]

For the last year your web team along with the office staff have been working on introducing new features and services on the BMW MOA website.

One of the leading issues raised has been the lack of any security on our website, especially for rally registration. Last year we identified ways to upgrade our site to support secure transactions. By upgrading our member database software and securely connecting it to the website, members would be able to renew, register for events (such as the International Rally) and make country store purchases. Visitors would be able to join on-line and register for the rally.

We are pleased to introduce a new area of the BMW MOA website, the secure services area. Here you can renew your membership, update your member information including address and your listing in the 'MOA Owners Anonymous book. You can also pre-register for the International Rally (opens April 1) and make purchases at the Country Store. Verisign secures the credit card transactions and as always the BMW MOA does not and will never share your information with any outside party.

We have also updated the infrastructure behind the website and the BMW MOA Forum. Front Page is no longer utilized and the pages as well as the available images are being optimized for improved performance. The navigation has been updated as part of the groundwork for a complete upgrade as part of Phase II.

Going forward we will be concentrating on upgrades to the interface of the Country Store as well is improving the navigation of the site. As our use of the secure area increases we will also be working closely with the Editor of the Owners News on expanding content for members only.

We invite you to take a look around at the site and give us your feedback, especially any issues with links, formatting errors or other aggravations you encounter. On every page there is a link on the bottom; webmaster@bmwmoa.org.

Feel free to provide feedback, trouble reports or general comments. It would be helpful if you could include (cut and paste) the URL or title of the page. If you were in the secure commerce area a brief description of the events that led to the problem would also be very helpful.

Thank you for visiting the BMW MOA website.

The BMW MOA Web Team

[oldcarkook]

Scott: there's been some chatter here about the desire by many for the online side of the MOA to setup a swap meet section on the website. Can you tell us if there's any progress on that?

[robnye]

Greetings,

At this time there are no plans to put the flea market on-line. It is a topic of discussion among the board. The issue is how to use the Owners News and the website together when it comes to member advertising.

As always comments and suggestions are welcome.

Best,

Rob Nye
Secretary, BMWMOA

[eljeffe]

Put BMW ON online for registered members.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Rob Nye
At this time there are no plans to put the flea market on-line. It is a topic of discussion among the board. The issue is how to use the Owners News and the website together when it comes to member advertising.

Is that because the Fleamarket is in the top ten reasons people subscribe to MOA and they do not want to upset the offline members?

I would support a website like the IBMWR classifieds.

MarkF

[YB in IN]

Originally posted by MarkF
Is that because the Fleamarket is in the top ten reasons people subscribe to MOA and they do not want to upset the offline members?

I would support a website like the IBMWR classifieds.

MarkF

Why not just use the IBMWR classifieds then?

[MarkF]

Originally posted by YB in IN
Why not just use the IBMWR classifieds then?

I do! As well as the OTL classifieds and the ON Fleamarket. That does not mean I cannot support another on-line marketplace. Does it? Not everyone in the MOA uses the IBMWR website. (http://www.ibmwr.org)

MarkF

[basketcase]

That is,

- Add an online classifieds section, as opposed to --

- Leave online classifieds to other providers.

Personally, I don't have much of a preference one way or the other.

The last three motorcycles I sold, I sold in different ways. The K100 was sold to a (sober) house painter who heard about it word of mouth. The K75 was sold to a rider in Tennessee who read about in the Tennessean (state paper). And the Gold Wing was sold via the GWRRA online classifieds to a buyer in Tennessee.

- Print ads and consignment at a dealership failed me with the K100.

- A print ad sold the K75.

- An online ad sold the GL.

What works one time may add up to "hunting oil in a dry hole" the next time.

Next, this debate seems to be something of an ongoing undercurrent. To put it politely, one primay task faced by the organizational leadership is "balancing" the sometimes competing demands of varied interest groups within the larger body. God love'em, they have my best wishes ...

Meanwhile, if I am serious about selling, I will personally find a way to do it. For example, refusing to pay the local newspaper $35 to advertise a set of matched side mount tool boxes off my truck, I made up a flyer on the computer, had it laminated at Kinkos, and stuck it on the tail gate of my truck -- all for the grand total of $4.00. The boxes will eventually sell, and I will be $31 better off for taking the homegrown route.

My point is this: Instead of trying to restructure the entire organization around a desire to sell one motorcycle, why not just find a way to do it with what is available?

Swap Meets: I think the MOA leadership and Forum leadership are all trying to look to the long term best interest of the organization at large. May their tribe increase.

However, swap meets are a long time tradition among various motorcycling groups, and it would further seem that a member (or club) wanting to put on a swap does not need permission of the powers that be. So just post a notice and do it. If my tool boxes have not sold, I'll bring them along ... :brow

IMHO ... with apologies for what appears to be a hijacking of the original intent of the thread, and with a word of gratitude to the various volunteers whose efforts contribute to this remaining a fine establishment.

[KBasa]

Let me ask a purely hypothetical question:

Just for kicks, let's say there was a forum for advertising, but you needed to be a member to post there. If you weren't a member, would it encourage you to become one? You could include pictures, hang as many ads up as you wanted (no commercial operations) and could administer the ads yourself.

Would you see this as an important benefit of your membership? Ads would be open to anyone to view, but only members could post responses to the ads.

Please don't construe this as an attempt to get online classifieds started. I'm trying to follow up a couple of the comments to see how important it might be.

[basketcase]

Personally, my membership or non-membership is not dependent on the classifieds issue.

That said, would it be useful to be able to post pictures of a motorcycle for sale? Certainly. And the same could be said for any number of other items.

However, I don't sale a lot of stuff. And I buy very little "pre-owned" stuff. So to see an added fee tacked onto the existing fee just to ad classifieds would be a wasted expenditure for me.

[YB in IN]

Originally posted by MarkF
I do! As well as the OTL classifieds and the ON Fleamarket. That does not mean I cannot support another on-line marketplace. Does it? Not everyone in the MOA uses the IBMWR website. (http://www.ibmwr.org)

MarkF

Hey thats cool man. I wasn't trying to make a discouraging comment, I'm not Eric Blume. :D

[basketcase]

Wait, wait!

I understood it would all be a "membership fee." But whether is were all promoted as one membership fee, or membership + a classified fee, the end result would be the same. Namely, more dollars out of my pocket.

Either way, I would not want to see the annual fee raised just to provide classifieds.

[knary]

Originally posted by RickM
Wait, wait!

I understood it would all be a "membership fee." But whether is were all promoted as one membership fee, or membership + a classified fee, the end result would be the same. Namely, more dollars out of my pocket.

Either way, I would not want to see the annual fee raised just to provide classifieds.

No talk of raising the fee that I know of, just a growth of the services the MOA already offers the membership. Sorta like how this forum was set up without raising the membership fee.

[KBasa]

Originally posted by RickM
Wait, wait!

I understood it would all be a "membership fee." But whether is were all promoted as one membership fee, or membership + a classified fee, the end result would be the same. Namely, more dollars out of my pocket.

Either way, I would not want to see the annual fee raised just to provide classifieds.

Nope. That's not what I was proposing. I was trying to determine whether non members might be encouraged to become MOA members if we could offer advertising via an interface similar to this one. I wouldn't envision an upcharge for folks that are already members, I was trying to determine whether on line advertising would be viewed as a useful recruiting tool for the organization.

What I'm really looking at is whether web services are viewed as a value add by the membership.

[basketcase]

It all depends.

In the larger scheme of things, the addition of classifieds would certainly be a nice value add. Particularly if pictures could be posted the same as what we presently do on the forums. Personally, I do browse the classifieds on several sites just for the sake of information.

"Would it enhance member recruitement?" I expect it would. The online world -- including e-commerce, is here to stay, and forward thinking organizations are alert to it.

Now, a question from my "shopper's" perspective. "Would the site be equipped to utilize -- say, PayPal?" That would really make the addition of classifieds a benefit not just on par with, but ahead of what is available most places.

Either way, I'm happy.

So, when do they go live? :D

[KBasa]

Originally posted by RickM

So, when do they go live? :D

Check Rob's comment. It's a topic of board discussion at this time.

Thanks for your comments, Rick. Really.

[JimVonBaden1]

I like the way BMW Sport Touring. com (http://www.bmwsporttouring.com) does it on their forum. They just have a separate part of their forum called "Classifieds" for the use of sale items.

It is for use by members of the web site, and has listings that are for personal use only. The individual just posts an item, and when it's sold, they place a new post on their thread that says item sold. Eventually a moderator will come along and remove the post.

I use it a lot for browsing and information.

I also believe it is one of the reasons that their web site has far more activity than this one. Not that I dislike this one in any way.

Just my 0.02 and IMHO.

Jim :brow

[MarkF]

that the reason to add a feature is not soley to break new ground or compete with others. You might want to consider the prospect of being left behind. If this forum had never started and if the newsletter had stayed B&W any other organization could have easily upstaged the MOA with a beautiful color magazine and on-line forum. The next big leap might be an on-line magazine or newspage. On-line classifieds are already the norm and we are being left behind. At the very least the MOA should provide a location to display pics of items sold in the ON Fleamarket. But, if they're gonna do that they might as well just add a classifieds forum to this website. At this point it seems less like a problem of adding a service and more like a decision to prevent it from happening!

MarkF

[basketcase]

Long term, I don't think the addition of classifieds to this site would hurt the paper ads in the ON. I am also a member of GWRRA. The (members only) online classifieds hover between 75 to 100 posts per week, and the print classifieds in the back of Wing World are always substantial.

To my way of thinking, (and from an organizational leadership/business perspective), the real issue is not so much one of membership usage of one or the other, but a strategic plan that effectively utilizes both.

Next, I see a key question as, "How could such a plan be positioned to attract more paid advertisers to the print publication?"

IMO, if you can answer both those questions in a way that creates a win/win for the two advertising groups (members & vendors), then you have a great opportunity for growing the membership, fostering forum participation, increasing ON distribution, and expanding the vendor base.

Yikes! It's work time. Bye.

[robnye]

Thanks for all the good ideas.

As you may know we have been putting in a huge investment into the website as well as back end systems in the office.

In a few days members and guests will for the first time be able to securely register for our International Rally. People are already using the secure section of the site to join and renew memberships as well as make purchases from the Country Store.

The completion of the build up to have real security is what we have been calling Phase 1 of Project E! This has been in progress for just over a year.

The primary goal of Phase 1 is to provide a secure connection to the member database at the 'MOA office to allow E-services on the website. There is a wealth of information available that we can not post on a public site, this connection will enable us to divide the site between members and guests. We anticipate member benefits to include access to some archives of the Owners News including tech features and product reviews. Some of our content will be enhanced and expanded when we can be assured that it is only for the benefit of our members.

Phase II will incorporate many of the ideas discussed here as well as a visual update of the site. Part of this update will to incorporate a complementary look between print and web.

At this time 1,841 registered users of a membership of close to 38,000. The Owners News reaches each member and it is our flagship publication as well as the official record of the 'MOA. We must be very careful in making sure we do not devalue any of the benefits of the Owners News. We are looking at ways for the site and magazine to work together. An excellent example of this is the R12GS scoop on line followed by a review in the Owners News. In the future it is possible that additional material available on the website would be referenced in print. As the number of registered users increases it will be easier to justify more services.

Regarding the specifics of flea market ads I think we all agree that there will be a time when members will be able to utilize the website for advertising. What I find very interesting is that many people use the on-line form for submitting ads to the magazine and when this form does not work it is a big problem. There are issues such as timing (do we hold on-line ads until the magazine is mailed) and if it is a static board (cycle trader, IBMWR) or forum based. Another un-resolved question is should the ads be visible to the public but only posted by members, or just member to member.

Because everything with the website is still new ground your board is being very cautious. Things like this forum and the new E-Commerce are benefits that have a real cost and will need to maintained by volunteers and some contractors. We need to make sure we take all of these issues as well as any impact on policy before introducing new services.

As always we appreciate your comments. I would like to close with the observation that I have not met anyone on the board who is against anything that we can show will be a benefit to our members so long as the cost and effort are realistic. Because of the size of the organization we need to be very careful so there will be situations when we will take extra time.

Best,

[BradfordBenn]

It would be helpful if there was a link page for each ON Issue. Not a link that takes you to the issue, but a page that holds the links talked about in the issue, including advertisers. Yes, this could be in a members only section.

Something that would make me leave the site is the use of advertisements to the level that some sites use them. A nice balance I think is the AMA (http://www.ama-cycle.org/) there are advertisement links on the "public" area but not in the "members" area. Seems a fair balance.

[eljeffe]

Originally posted by Rob Nye
At this time 1,841 registered users of a membership of close to 38,000. The Owners News reaches each member and it is our flagship publication as well as the official record of the 'MOA. We must be very careful in making sure we do not devalue any of the benefits of the Owners News. We are looking at ways for the site and magazine to work together. An excellent example of this is the R12GS scoop on line followed by a review in the Owners News. In the future it is possible that additional material available on the website would be referenced in print. As the number of registered users increases it will be easier to justify more services.

If you have an area where MEMBERS ONLY can access the issues in PDF format, that would be great. I just don't get a lot of value from the hardcopy and would prefer the electronic format - saving the organization on shipping and printing costs, and maybe saving a tree or two in the process.

[lorazepam]

Are there any plans for a live forum where you can communicate instantly? I would assume that would be an expensive proposition. Just curious.

[robnye]

Originally posted by lorazepam
Are there any plans for a live forum where you can communicate instantly? I would assume that would be an expensive proposition. Just curious.

It has not been considered. Just because it has not been considered does not mean it is a bad idea. If you would like to persue it for us try a google search on chat services and see if you can come up with some figures.

We are in the process of preparing the site for the future. As we firm up the foundation of the site we appreciate all feedback and ideas on things that would benefit our members. For any idea If we felt enough members would utilize the service and it had a reasonble cost to provide I can't see why we would not try to offer it.

Best,

[MarkF]

Originally posted by lorazepam
Are there any plans for a live forum where you can communicate instantly? I would assume that would be an expensive proposition. Just curious.

Originally posted by Rob Nye
It has not been considered. Just because it has not been considered does not mean it is a bad idea.

For any idea If we felt enough members would utilize the service and it had a reasonble cost to provide I can't see why we would not try to offer it.

I've been on other forums, message boards, etc. that also had chat rooms. I've found that other than teenagers and porn there is not much desire for chat.

MarkF

[lorazepam]

I doubt there are a lot of teens on this site who would chat . I think it would be great to be able to set up a quick ride, or possibly be able to help someone with a bike problem live.

[JimVonBaden1]

Originally posted by lorazepam
I doubt there are a lot of teens on this site who would chat . I think it would be great to be able to set up a quick ride, or possibly be able to help someone with a bike problem live.

I agree! Sometimes just posting on a forum is just too slow.

Jim :brow

[BradfordBenn]

Originally posted by lorazepam
Are there any plans for a live forum where you can communicate instantly? I would assume that would be an expensive proposition. Just curious.

There are lots of solutions available for this already. I guess the first thing is to have people who actually want to get together and chat instantly.

I use MSN Messenger, feel free to take a guess of my user name :p

Also when the board is really flying with activity it becomes pretty close to instant.:bliss

[MarkF]

There are already spots on your profile to enter your:

ICQ Number:
AOL Instant Messenger Handle:
Yahoo Instant Messenger Handle:

Which is fine if you know who you want to chat with.

As far as setting up a ride or get-together maybe numerous regional email lists would work better. Use just for rides, no exceptions. I think it would require a lot of additional resources.

Besides there are already numerous things just like it, at least in the northeast, so why duplicate efforts?

MarkF

[lorazepam]

Don't know my ICQ number
dong have AOL or Yahoo.
I will deal with it I guess.

[YB in IN]

There is also the private message feature that isn't too bad to use. :)

[BradfordBenn]

Originally posted by lorazepam
Don't know my ICQ number
dong have AOL or Yahoo.
I will deal with it I guess.

You can sign up for Yahoo messenger at www.yahoo.com,you just need to create a user profile. I use MSN messenger, same idea. Mainly cause it is integrated with LiveMeeting I use for work. Same idea. To use MSN messenger, you just need a hotmail account.

[ian408]

You can sign up with Yahoo! or AOL to get the benefit of
IM.

Personally, I think of the forums and ON are and should
remain complimentary.

Something I think would help draw others to MOA is to feature
each month's ON similar look and feel but instead of providing
the entire article, include a snippet. Perhaps the entire
contents page as well.

It's a lot of work to tie the web site and magazine together
in such a way that a member wants to visit one or the other.

Ian

[BradfordBenn]

So I was out messing around with the online stuff a while back and thought :idea I'll change some of the stuff in my profile.

Never thought much of it until today when I was unpacking from the most recent plane trip. I was taking out of the breifcase the BMWON and the mailing label saidMR. BRADFORD BENN, SUPER GENIUS :clap :rofl:stick

So the stuff really does work.:bliss :brow

I am not conceited, although I have every right to be.:p

[ehmannd]

I would like to see an online flea market. I would not be influenced to join up or not by this service but I think raising fees shouid not happen. If it can't be done within the fee structur as is - leave it alone. If I wasn't using this service I am not sure I would want to pay more for it. However, I suppose I am paying for a few things I don't use now and it isn't killing me.

I say fire the thing up.

[KBasa]

That makes two of us, homes.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by ehmannd
I would like to see an online flea market.

As I understand it the execs believe that any on-line classifieds would take away from the classifieds in the back of the ON. The ON goes to everyone in the MOA while only a small percent of the members use this forum (even though most of the members are on line). The execs do not want to do anything to lessen the ON's success.

So just use the IBMWR classifieds - BMW Motorcycle Marketplace (http://www.ibmwr.org/market/)

MarkF

[JimVonBaden1]

So just use the IBMWR classifieds - BMW Motorcycle Marketplace

That's what I do, and it is a great place to find whatever you want!

Jim:brow

[BradfordBenn]

One of the magazines I receive at work has a pretty sensible way for doing electronic and postal distribution. They mail a copy to their office. When the receive the postal copy, the electronic version is published. To them the inequity of people who live farther away not getting the classifieds before all the good stuff was bought up.