Drive line Spline Lube

[bluwing]

I was told by the Service Department at the dealer that my bike (2002 R1150GS) should have the drive line splines inspected and lubed. 5 hours of labor. The bike only has 49,000 miles on it and I don't see this in any service manual as required or even suggested. Anyone know what he's referring to? I don't mind paying for value...but if BMW doesn't require it is it needed?
Jeff

[twins4life]

:lurk

Good question. But which splines? Clutch or FD?

I got all worried about my R and removed the tranny. Big waste of time (or so I was told), the splines are hardened and dont need lube (as I was told), but anything will wear longer if lubed AND the lube stays grit free. I have seen cases where lube attracted dirt and the part wore faster then an unlubed part.

So I'll just :lurk

[JimVonBaden1]

There apears to be issues with some bikes, 2002 seems to be worse than others, and the splines wear prematurely.

No matter what, dry splines WILL wear, but there is little indication whether or not the splines are dry other than poor downshifting from 3-2 and 2-1.

If I owned a 2002, and my bike shifted silky smooth, I would likely forgo the spline lube unless you are uncomfortable with not knowing.

The same goes for all Oilheads, though the 1150s seem more suceptible.

Jim :brow

[JimFNH]

Hi I have an 02 R1150RT and I ocasionally have issues down shifting into 2nd. I sometimes have to release the clutch and try again. It usually slides right in the second time. Should I be scared??
Thanks,
Jim

[86755]

This is a much discussed, and hotly debated, topic. You will find more information than you can handle if you search throughout the "oilheads" forum. If your bike is downshifting hard, look into the spline lube. I'm assuming you have a hydrolic clutch so no adjustment is likely needed. Popular opinion suggests that a lube is necessary. I believe Paul Glaves has stated (on this forum and in BMWON)he lubes ALL of his motorcycles at around 40k intervals. Just something to consider.

The only reason I tell you this is because I asked a similar question 4 months ago and received a flurry of responses about spline/clutch lubes. I am experiencing difficulty downshifting on my 2000 R11R and most folks who wrote in response to my post suggested a spline lube (although, only if a clutch cable adjustment didn't fix the problem first). If you aren't having shifting problems, don't worry too much. If it isn't broke, don't fix it, right?

Also, as far as I know, BMW does NOT suggest spline lubes as part of a regular maintainence program (at least on later models).

Good luck.

[PGlaves]

Anybody who is experiencing difficulty downshifting which is cured by clutching and blipping the throttle ought to seriously consider lubricating the clutch hub splines. If in the process you remove the transmission and find nice greasy splines then you ought to think about looking inside the transmission - but, if, like in nearly all cases you find dry, rusty splines then examine them closely to make sure they are not worn too badly. If not, lubricate them with a good moly (molybdenum disulfide) paste and put them back together.

As noted in this thread above I do recommend approximate 40K mile intervals for this service.

The photo below is of a K75 input shaft with 320,000 miles on it - lubricated at +- 40K intervals. This is what they ought to look like. Most don't because most get neglected.

[bluwing]

Thanks for all the response. I don't have any problems shifting down, but I do want to take care of the bike. I'll get it done if the $350 is worth the long term good.
b

[JimFNH]

Thanks very much! I will add this to the "winter list". One thing I did ont add was that the down shifting problem was usually at a stop and I was droipping back into 1st to get ready to go. Is this significant? Thanks again I really apreciate your help. - Jim

[bikerfish1100]

Jim- a little clarification will help us help you.
In your first post, you said it was a problem shifting into 2nd. In your second post, you said the issue was getting into 1st at a stop. Those are 2 very different scenarios, each pointing to a different problem, and therefore a different solution.
what choo got?

[nrpetersen]

Does it work on the 1150s to remove the starter & look inside the clutch housing with a small light for wear debris? My 1100RT was pristine, and all the pictures of bad ones show crap inside from spline wear debris.

The picture above was obviously well aligned when it was manufactured. I wish they all could be like that.

[JimFNH]

Hi, sorry for the confusion. I actually usually have a problem with second gear when downshifting and more often than not it is at a stop and I am dropping down into first. Thanks again for the help!

[bikerfish1100]

Kinda thought that was the case. Is common/typical.
If already stopped- roll bike slightly while downshifting (steady presure on shifter- don't punch at it). Or rev engine slightly and downshift. Or put pressure on shifter while barely easing out clutch, and downshift will happen. That's a case of "they all do that". Just one of the BMW quirks you eventually learn.

[peterbulgar]

When I took my '04 R1150RA in (to the BMW dealer) for the 48k service, I asked about a spline lube. I was told that BMW does not have a service interval for spline lubes, and that unless there is a problem downshifting I shouldn't bother. Since it's a four-hour job at $105/hour I took their advice (a two-year/24k service with ABS brake flush is expensive enough!). I suspect that by the time downshifting becomes a problem the damage has already been done, and you are looking at a new input shaft and clutch hub. I have an extended warranty that is good for another couple of years and that also influenced my decision.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[Andy VH]

Now, my 94 R1100RS is the older style driveshaft and splines setup, so I DO believe in periodic lubing of the clutch and tranny splines. My bike has 125,000+ miles on it and it shifts as well now as it ever has, which is a "relative" term for an Oilhead of that vintage.

But, I have no troubles at all getting into neutral from 1st, and little trouble if any getting from 2nd into neutral. My clutch action is very smooth and actually fairly broad at the lever.

So, I'm a lubed spline believer. I expect my original clutch splines and tranny output splines to look just as good as the picture in Paul Glaves response, well past 200,000 miles.

[bluwing]

So they pulled the splines to lube and discovered my clutch slave cylinder is leaking onto the clutch and would have trashed the clutch soon. So I guess it was a good idea.

However, I am extremely disappointed with BMW's quality. I could understand expensive replacement maintenance at 75,000 or higher.
It's not the money so much as the wondering what next and where will it happen?
I was going to sell this bike to buy the new 1200GS Adventure but I don't think I want another BMW product.
Why can't we expect the same reliability in a motorcycle as we get with our cars?
Or do I have to ride a Honda to get that?

[grossjohann]

Alright, what about up-shifting… Since my 2004 R1150RSA was delivered, I’ve had occasional trouble with shifting 1 to 2 (through neutral), and from 4 to 5 (sometimes gets “stuck” between and them slams back down to 4 – and happens mostly when 2-up). Every time, the shifter is all the way in the “up” position, but I’m still between gears. The only way I know it’s happening is when I roll on the throttle, and the engine revs. It’s much nicer when I miss 2nd because it’s simply in neutral; missing 5th is more abrupt because I often drop down into 4th with a jolt. Either time, it has always worked on the second try…

I reported it to the dealer at the 600 mile service, but when I asked them to check it out, they basically said, “all guys who go from Japanese motorcycles to BMW motorcycles have the same troubles.”

I’ve given it about 12K now (took delivery in August 06) and I’m getting ready to take it in for service again. Admittedly, I do not have as much trouble now as I did then, but it still happens, and I don’t feel comfortable with it…

I also look like an idiot when I “miss 2nd gear”…

[JimVonBaden1]

So they pulled the splines to lube and discovered my clutch slave cylinder is leaking onto the clutch and would have trashed the clutch soon. So I guess it was a good idea.

However, I am extremely disappointed with BMW's quality. I could understand expensive replacement maintenance at 75,000 or higher.
It's not the money so much as the wondering what next and where will it happen?
I was going to sell this bike to buy the new 1200GS Adventure but I don't think I want another BMW product.
Why can't we expect the same reliability in a motorcycle as we get with our cars?
Or do I have to ride a Honda to get that?

Sorry about your issues, I understand your dissapointment.

However, you cannot expect the same reliability out of a motorcycle that you get from a car, that is apples and oranges.

But, if it makes you feel better, a Honda probably is a good idea, CIVICs are nice!:D

Jim :brow

[bluwing]

Sorry about your issues, I understand your dissapointment.

However, you cannot expect the same reliability out of a motorcycle that you get from a car, that is apples and oranges.

But, if it makes you feel better, a Honda probably is a good idea, CIVICs are nice!:D

Jim :brow

I have a Civic and a Element. I want a Transalp!!!

[PGlaves]

Alright, what about up-shifting… Since my 2004 R1150RSA was delivered, I’ve had occasional trouble with shifting 1 to 2 (through neutral), and from 4 to 5 (sometimes gets “stuck” between and them slams back down to 4 – and happens mostly when 2-up). Every time, the shifter is all the way in the “up” position, but I’m still between gears. The only way I know it’s happening is when I roll on the throttle, and the engine revs. It’s much nicer when I miss 2nd because it’s simply in neutral; missing 5th is more abrupt because I often drop down into 4th with a jolt. Either time, it has always worked on the second try…

I reported it to the dealer at the 600 mile service, but when I asked them to check it out, they basically said, “all guys who go from Japanese motorcycles to BMW motorcycles have the same troubles.”

I’ve given it about 12K now (took delivery in August 06) and I’m getting ready to take it in for service again. Admittedly, I do not have as much trouble now as I did then, but it still happens, and I don’t feel comfortable with it…

I also look like an idiot when I “miss 2nd gear”…

It is possible that you are not fully moving the shifter as the dealer asserts. However, other than your body position and the position of your foot I don't know how the bike knows whether you are two-up or not.

If that were my bike I would restate the problem to the dealer every time I took the bike in for service. I'd want a good written record that the problem has been there since the bike was new. I suspect that sooner or later that transmission will need to be repaired or replaced - hopefully while still under warranty.

[grossjohann]

It is possible that you are not fully moving the shifter as the dealer asserts. However, other than your body position and the position of your foot I don't know how the bike knows whether you are two-up or not.

If that were my bike I would restate the problem to the dealer every time I took the bike in for service. I'd want a good written record that the problem has been there since the bike was new. I suspect that sooner or later that transmission will need to be repaired or replaced - hopefully while still under warranty.

Thanks, Paul.

I will continue to talk with them about it. Good point on the written documentation to support the future claim if needed.

If it is me, then I could be acting differently when there is more weight on the bike, or perhaps I’m simply more aggressive when riding alone (I am more aggressive while riding alone).

The shifter adjustment was nearly all the way in the down position, so I adjusted it up higher to see if there was a difference in my shifting. No problems today, but it seems to hit in waves. If I miss second, then it may happen again the next time I shift through neutral, but then not another time until several days/weeks later.

Thanks again,
Alex

[PGlaves]

Thanks, Paul.

I will continue to talk with them about it. Good point on the written documentation to support the future claim if needed.

If it is me, then I could be acting differently when there is more weight on the bike, or perhaps I’m simply more aggressive when riding alone (I am more aggressive while riding alone).

The shifter adjustment was nearly all the way in the down position, so I adjusted it up higher to see if there was a difference in my shifting. No problems today, but it seems to hit in waves. If I miss second, then it may happen again the next time I shift through neutral, but then not another time until several days/weeks later.

Thanks again,
Alex

One reason I'm suspicious of the foot action: I bought a bike from a dealer a few years ago - cheap. The owners were on a trip, two-up and he stopped at the dealership complaining that he was missing shifts and it was popping out of gear. They said they could get on it in the morning but he traded it on a newer similar bike and went on his way.

Even before it was in the shop I wandered in and bought it. I had a transmission that would fit it at home and figured I'd just use it. I did notice that the shift lever had been bent inward in a tipover, so I went back in and got a new (used - parts bin) shifter. It was about 50 miles to my house from the dealership. I did everything but wheelies and stoppies trying to miss a shift or get it to pop out of gear. It didn't, and hasn't in the last 20K miles or so.

He simply wasn't pulling that bent shifter up far enough to complete some shifts. His toe (like mine) would have had to go in under at a strange angle.

If in riding two-up you are scooted as little as an inch further forward it can alter your leg and ankle positions. Just an idea, but I'm suspicious.

[grossjohann]

One reason I'm suspicious of the foot action: I bought a bike from a dealer a few years ago - cheap. The owners were on a trip, two-up and he stopped at the dealership complaining that he was missing shifts and it was popping out of gear. They said they could get on it in the morning but he traded it on a newer similar bike and went on his way.

Even before it was in the shop I wandered in and bought it. I had a transmission that would fit it at home and figured I'd just use it. I did notice that the shift lever had been bent inward in a tipover, so I went back in and got a new (used - parts bin) shifter. It was about 50 miles to my house from the dealership. I did everything but wheelies and stoppies trying to miss a shift or get it to pop out of gear. It didn't, and hasn't in the last 20K miles or so.

He simply wasn't pulling that bent shifter up far enough to complete some shifts. His toe (like mine) would have had to go in under at a strange angle.

If in riding two-up you are scooted as little as an inch further forward it can alter your leg and ankle positions. Just an idea, but I'm suspicious.

You have a good point, Paul. I don't want to fault the machine until it's absolutely clear that I'm not the culprit.

I have gone from “cruiser” to “sport tourer” with this bike, and the RS’s seating position was very new to me last year. Since the problem is less severe now that I’ve had more time on the bike, there is a good chance that you are correct.

I’ll monitor my shifting with the shift lever in this new position…

It’s just that I can usually tell when a machine is even the slightest bit out of adjustment. A little low on air, a phantom sound, or uneven motion and I will normally pick it up immediately. I swear the clutch lever is all the way in the up position when it misses… In fact, I have expected a miss on several shifts only to be surprised when it landed in gear…

Thanks again for the help.

-Alex

[Andy VH]

Especially with BMW Oilheads which have the 5-speed tranny, you cannot be a winpy shifter. I suspect a lot of riders simply "tap" at the shift lever, which leads to a lot of missed shifts and poor shifting action. I still do it on occassion.

Shifting at higher rpms helps, like above 4000 rpm. But it also helps to have your foot in position under the shifter, and lightly "preload" the shifter. Then when you make the shift, make sure you lift the shift lever until you actually feel the resistance of the end of the shifter travel on top of your boot.

Also, "relaxed" slow shifting action doesn't help either. Make your shifts quick and crisp, with no more than 1/2 travel of the clutch lever necessary.

On my 94 R1100RS, I added NAPA Posi-Differential Viscosity Modifier lube in my tranny. It does seem to shift slightly better with that additive. To add it you would have to drain some of the tranny fluid out to make sure you have the correct fluid level.

[dhgeyer]

I had a '91 K75SA for a couple of years. I believed in doing everything. The service manual did call for clutch spline lubes at 20,000 mile intervals on that bike. So, I took it to the dealership and paid them to do it. About $400.00 as I recall. A couple of months later I took it to a local independent shop where the guy let me watch him work. On a hunch, he pulled the transmission and showed me 10 years worth of dried out gunk on the clutch splines, and no fresh lube. So, the dealership took my money and didn't do the job. I suppose the dealership knew perfectly well that it wasn't really needed. The small shop guy went ahead and did the job. I never had a problem of any kind with the clutch before or after.

Most people I talk to don't do that job, and never have a problem. Most of them aren't even aware that there is such a thing to be done.

The '96 R850R doesn't show it as an item to be done. Let's see. If I don't pay $400.00 every 40,000 miles, by the time I (maybe) have a problem with the output shaft I could probably pay for the fix with the money I saved. Not to mention the fact that, by that time, I'll probably have gotten bored with the bike and sold it!

[PGlaves]

The '96 R850R doesn't show it as an item to be done. Let's see. If I don't pay $400.00 every 40,000 miles, by the time I (maybe) have a problem with the output shaft I could probably pay for the fix with the money I saved. Not to mention the fact that, by that time, I'll probably have gotten bored with the bike and sold it!

And the next unsuspecting owner gets to buy your neglect?

[dhgeyer]

And the next unsuspecting owner gets to buy your neglect?

Since when does not doing extra maintenance, that the factory does not call for or recommend, constitute neglect? I have seen no conclusive evidence whatsoever that this item is beneficial in any way on my year and model of motorcycle. And since when is BMW hesitant to require any maintenance procedure that they think even might be beneficial? Neglect indeed!!! Are you always this rude to newcomers?

[BigAlibew24]

just had a new clutch cable and spline lube at 59000 on my 01R100RT. wasn't to late but should have done it sooner. it does help. it's not a joke. But i do wonder why BMW doesn't put a grease fitting in for it and the spline on the drive shaft, my old PC800 had it.

[PGlaves]

Since when does not doing extra maintenance, that the factory does not call for or recommend, constitute neglect? I have seen no conclusive evidence whatsoever that this item is beneficial in any way on my year and model of motorcycle. And since when is BMW hesitant to require any maintenance procedure that they think even might be beneficial? Neglect indeed!!! Are you always this rude to newcomers?

I didn't mean to be rude and if it came across that way, I apologize. My problem is that I've taken apart too many Oilhead bikes that had damaged clutch hubs and damaged transmission input shafts to believe that this is maintenance that doesn't need to be done. It varies some from bike to bike, depending on how well the spline was lubed at the factory. 40K is usually a safe number on Oilheads. 65K can be too late. By too late I mean no sign of lube left, red powdery debris, metal grindings, and the shaft worn enough to need to be replaced - in addition to replacing the clutch parts. Some 2002 bikes seemed to have an alignment problem and these fail early. I'm talking about bikes where the clutch and shaft will go 150K or 200K or 300K without wearing out when lubed every 40 or 50K - but won't get past 65K or 70K without periodic lubrication.

That may be sad news, but just because BMW didn't include it in the maintenance schedule doesn't mean that in the real world it doesn't need to be done. They don't schedule replacement of spark plug wires, or cleaning fuel injectors either, but every now and then that stuff has to be done too.

There are usually early warning signs - typically difficult downshifts 4th to 3rd, or 3rd to 2nd. That is very often the sign of a dry spline. Sometimes the symptoms appear early enough that if the spline is cleaned and lubed not too much wear has happened. But sometimes when it is taken apart, even right away, the shaft is damaged enough that a new clutch hub will wear quickly on the damaged shaft. At that point the cost to repair ranges upwards of $1,500.

I was saying I wouldn't want to unknowingly buy a bike in that condition.

[bluwing]

That may be sad news, but just because BMW didn't include it in the maintenance schedule doesn't mean that in the real world it doesn't need to be done. They don't schedule replacement of spark plug wires, or cleaning fuel injectors either, but every now and then that stuff has to be done too.


It paid off for me because they caught the slave cylinder issue which would have wrecked my clutch, and as an aside the bike does shift a whole lot smoother.
Thanks for the wisdom Paul.
B

[dhgeyer]

I only have experience with 2 BMW motorcycles. The K75SA had about 30,000 on it when I had the clutch spline lube done, (and paid for twice). Before it was done the clutch worked as smooth as butter, and the bike shifted as well or better than any I have owned. Lubing the clutch splines did not improve it, but then it didn't need improving. Chris, the tech who did the job right, showed me where the clutch shaft, the female part that the output shaft goes into, had just started to have some wear, not longitudinal, but the splines on the output shaft had started to dig into the corresponding surfaces in the clutch shaft. The wear was very minor, and at that rate it would have been a long time before there was enough of a problem to fix. And, to be honest, I'm not sure lubrication would have helped much given that the wear seemed to have been caused by parts applying torque to each other, and not by friction.

The clutch on the '96 R850R also works like butter, and there is no difficulty shifting up or down from/to any gear. It also has 30,000 miles on it. With the bike on the center stand this morning, I put it in first and rocked the rear wheel forward and backward to see how much total lash there is in the drive train. I did the same thing with my 2006 Concours, which has 9000 miles on it. The Connie actually has more lash than the BMW. I realize that this is comparing apples to oranges, but the salient point to me is that neither bike has what I would call excessive drive train lash.

I guess you pays your money and takes your chances. All parts are going to fail sooner or later. Four hundred bucks is a lot to spend on the chance, even if it's a very good chance, that lubrication will stave off that failure. If you get 160,000 miles without ever doing a clutch spline lube, and that does happen, then you're money ahead for not doing it, assuming that the eventual failure fix figure of $1,500 is correct.

Of course, if for any reason the transmission needed to be removed at any time, having the clutch splines lubed at that point would be a no-brainer, since most of the cost of the job is getting to the clutch. Cleaning the old gunk off and putting on some new lube is trivial by comparison.

I have a similar philosophy toward my $500.00 German wind up clock movement with chime and strike, for which I built the case. The experts say that it should be cleaned and lubed every couple of years - some even say every year. I know from my clock collecting and observation, that if I never do any maintenance, the clock will need major service in about 20 years. Given what they charge to do the service, what a new movement costs, or what the major service will cost to fix the damage, it just makes more sense to run it till it drops and then pay to fix it or replace it.

As far as selling the bike to someone: I keep a meticulous service record of everything I do and when I do it (or have it done). I happily share this with any prospective buyer. This will obviously tell them what has, and what has not been done. If they are one of the comparatively few people who even know that there are such things as clutch splines on a BMW motorcycle, and if they feel that it's an issue, they can pass on the bike. Most people I've ever talked to don't know that they're there at all, don't ever pay any attention to them, and never have a problem as a result of it.

[PGlaves]

I guess you pays your money and takes your chances. All parts are going to fail sooner or later. Four hundred bucks is a lot to spend on the chance, even if it's a very good chance, that lubrication will stave off that failure. If you get 160,000 miles without ever doing a clutch spline lube, and that does happen, then you're money ahead for not doing it, assuming that the eventual failure fix figure of $1,500 is correct.

Thanks for introducing yourself. We come at this issue from two different perspectives. Some of the folks on this list know me - if not from technical posts on this forum then from my fairly regular Benchwrenching column in the Owners News or technical seminars I do at rallies. My background with BMW's covers 26 of them which my wife and I have ridden just over 1.4 million miles since 1977. And except for some very specialized work using special tools, I've done all of the maintenance on those bikes. This is not put here to brag - but to give some perspective as to the source of my opinions. I am a strong advocate of preventive maintenance.

To me a spline lube is sound preventive maintenance. To you it is $400 you don't want to hand a dealer. Frankly, if I had to pay a dealer for all of the routine and preventive maintenance our current BMW's need every year we couldn't afford to ride nearly as much as we do.

But since riding, wrenching, and writing are all three key parts of motorcycling as a hobby to me, we are able to ride a lot because I am able to wrench a lot.

Different perspectives. Different goals.

[dhgeyer]

Well, Paul, I can understand your point of view completely. It's the same way I am about guns, and have been for over 50 years. I've owned hundreds of them, built a few from the ground up (not kits), fabricating all the working parts by hand. I've never owned one that I didn't take apart and tune to virtual perfection whether there was any practical reason to do so or not.

I don't have that interest or skill set with cars or motorcycles, but I admire those who do. I've done some limited work on some of my bikes. I may get more interested in it with the Oilheads. I intend to own more than one, and could see myself getting hooked on "what makes them tick".

Spending money for car or motorcycle maintenance is not a problem for us, and would never limit my riding. And I would never skimp on an item that should be done. I often find myself in the position of telling a dealer to do an item because the manual says it's due, even when the dealer tells me it doesn't really need it. But I've also been burned a few times. So I'm cautious about the difference between spending money and throwing it away with no reasonable return.

[Dennie]

hello all, just a note on my observations on splines. I was trained as an engineer
(M.E.) and work with airbus aircraft systems.The same type of splines are used in many of the drive systems of the aircraft, and some of the same lubes. These are high torsionally loaded drives and thus show accelerated wear patterns, to wit: these systems are highly susceptible to friction based wear, which is exacerbated by missalignment and excessive clearances. sooooo lubricant (clean) is very important here- A slight missalignment in the spline centerlines introduces a "sliding" component as the assembly rotates, hence friction, wear etc. ad nauseam..... I'm not trying to preach here, just relating some of my experiences

[grossjohann]

hello all, just a note on my observations on splines. I was trained as an engineer
(M.E.) and work with airbus aircraft systems.The same type of splines are used in many of the drive systems of the aircraft, and some of the same lubes. These are high torsionally loaded drives and thus show accelerated wear patterns, to wit: these systems are highly susceptible to friction based wear, which is exacerbated by missalignment and excessive clearances. sooooo lubricant (clean) is very important here- A slight missalignment in the spline centerlines introduces a "sliding" component as the assembly rotates, hence friction, wear etc. ad nauseam..... I'm not trying to preach here, just relating some of my experiences

Welcome!

It is always nice to hear from those with related experience. Thank you for chiming in.

-Alex

[Dennie]

I wish the people at work felt the same way! The term "its out of limits" or "that material does not meet the mfgr spec, you need to order the right stuff" draws death stares and mutterings on a daily basis.:wave

R100gs
K100rt
kz1300
kdx200
tc305

[PGlaves]

hello all, just a note on my observations on splines. I was trained as an engineer
(M.E.) and work with airbus aircraft systems.The same type of splines are used in many of the drive systems of the aircraft, and some of the same lubes. These are high torsionally loaded drives and thus show accelerated wear patterns, to wit: these systems are highly susceptible to friction based wear, which is exacerbated by missalignment and excessive clearances. sooooo lubricant (clean) is very important here- A slight missalignment in the spline centerlines introduces a "sliding" component as the assembly rotates, hence friction, wear etc. ad nauseam..... I'm not trying to preach here, just relating some of my experiences

Very good information. And directly related to our motorcycles. When a new clutch hub is mated to a new input shaft the tolerances are fairly tight and the fit fairly precise. It is, after all those splines that hold the clutch disk centered when the clutch is released. As the parts wear there is slop in this connection. When you pull the clutch the disk is no longer clamped by the pressure plate and clutch cover. If there is slop in the fit on the shaft it can become slightly off-center. Then when you let the clutch out it is reclamped by the pressure plate and clutch cover in this off-center position.

Then every revolution this slight misalignment remains between the hub center and the shaft center until the next time you pull the clutch - when it will upon release realign, for better or for worse. So, wear on splines is not linear over miles. As wear occurs misalignment can get worse, so wear accelerates. This is part of my opinion why periodic lubrication is so important - to minimize wear in the first instance - to delay the point of misalignment and accelerated wear as long as possible.

[BubbaZanetti]

I may get more interested in it with the Oilheads. I intend to own more than one, and could see myself getting hooked on "what makes them tick".


i started riding in May of 2004 on an early 80s airhead, barely knew how to operate a vehicle with a manual transmission at that time, never mind the interior workings of a motorcycle. aside from some prior experience being the oil change boy at a garage one summer and sometimes getting to do the brakes, my mechanical knowledge was next to zero.

let me just say that working on your own bike can be very, very rewarding. in nearly 50,000 miles with my oilhead since the spring of 2005 i have done all the routine work, devised a custom external placement of my fuel filter specific to the S model, replaced the rear main seal(s) and a contaminated clutch (and you bet i lubed the splines while i was in there!) at 29K, changed tires by hand and a whole host of other things that allow me to put on a lot of miles without breaking the bank. given the amount i spent on gear and rallies, i think my girlfriend would have left me if i spent anymore sending it to the dealer to get it worked on!! in fact, since i've owned the bike, it has been to the dealer once, for 5 min, to get an ABS fault code reset (something you can do yourself, but i didn't feel like taking the body work off to get to the proper electrical connector).


good luck!

[rwootan]

Hi I have an 02 R1150RT and I ocasionally have issues down shifting into 2nd. I sometimes have to release the clutch and try again. It usually slides right in the second time. Should I be scared??
Thanks,
Jim

Check that your shift linkage if moving freely. It is very suseptable to dirt and can cause shifting problems (from personal experence!).

[rwootan]

Hi, sorry for the confusion. I actually usually have a problem with second gear when downshifting and more often than not it is at a stop and I am dropping down into first. Thanks again for the help!

Check you gear shift linkage. Easy to clean, if dirty can lead to shifting problem.