Valve Stem Failure

[DrPaul]

Returned Sunday from a 4400 mile trip to West Coast (California). Road CA-1 from San Luis Obispo to Ft. Bragg then meandered back to NE Oklahoma through Yosemite, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and Kansas. Eleven great days on my '02 R1150RT with only two problems .... BOTH valve stems failed within three days of each other! I put new Metzler ME 880's on the bike last November and asked that the stems be replaced as well but only ASS-U-ME that was done. Here is the interesting part: both stems leaked air between the brass tube and the surrounding rubber plug part. There was no leakage from the valve core itself or where the stem fits through the wheel. The failures were sudden rather than gradual as I check tire pressure every morning. Fortunately, I was with three other riders who could help get the wheels off and to a bike shop where repairs could be performed. Many thanks to Foothills Motorcycles in Plymouth, CA and the Yamaha shop in Gunnison, CO!!! Here are some lessons learned:

1) Replace rubber valve stems every time you change tires and VERIFY they are of good quality and appropriate for your style of wheel. I will probably go with an all-metal stem next time; I've never had one of them fail.

2) Always carry wheel removal tools and a small air compressor! If you are REALLY in the boonies, carry tire irons, bead breaking tools and spare stems.

3) Plastic zip-ties (2 small ones) can be placed around a valve stem that failed as mine did and snugged up enough to hold 35 lbs of air for 10 miles!

4) Praise those great bike shops that will stop what they're doing, fix your problem and get you back on the road!

Dr. Paul

[jingdog]

Fix a flat would have had you back on the road again.

[deilenberger]

Fix a flat would have had you back on the road again.Actually - that's questionable. The fix-a-flat sort of stuff gets thrown away from the valve stems by centrifugal force of the wheel rotating. I run "RideOn" in my rear wheel (after an unpleasant rear tire deflation at speed) - and on removal of the tire, there is none on the rim (or near the stem) - it's all concentrated in a band about 3" wide on the inside of the tire - dead center.

BTW - RideOn works, and doesn't seem to change wheel balance (the claims of it improving wheel balance have yet to be proven IMHO..) and it doesn't make a mess of the rims (a big plus..)

[deilenberger]

Returned Sunday from a 4400 mile trip to West Coast (California). Road CA-1 from San Luis Obispo to Ft. Bragg then meandered back to NE Oklahoma through Yosemite, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and Kansas. Eleven great days on my '02 R1150RT with only two problems .... BOTH valve stems failed within three days of each other! I put new Metzler ME 880's on the bike last November and asked that the stems be replaced as well but only ASS-U-ME that was done. Here is the interesting part: both stems leaked air between the brass tube and the surrounding rubber plug part. There was no leakage from the valve core itself or where the stem fits through the wheel. The failures were sudden rather than gradual as I check tire pressure every morning. Fortunately, I was with three other riders who could help get the wheels off and to a bike shop where repairs could be performed. Many thanks to Foothills Motorcycles in Plymouth, CA and the Yamaha shop in Gunnison, CO!!! Here are some lessons learned:

1) Replace rubber valve stems every time you change tires and VERIFY they are of good quality and appropriate for your style of wheel. I will probably go with an all-metal stem next time; I've never had one of them fail.

2) Always carry wheel removal tools and a small air compressor! If you are REALLY in the boonies, carry tire irons, bead breaking tools and spare stems.

3) Plastic zip-ties (2 small ones) can be placed around a valve stem that failed as mine did and snugged up enough to hold 35 lbs of air for 10 miles!

4) Praise those great bike shops that will stop what they're doing, fix your problem and get you back on the road!

Dr. Paul

Dr. Paul - Paul Glaves covered exactly the same thing happening to Voni's bike when they were on a trip - with both cores failing the same way (center coming unbonded from the rubber).. so your words are ones to take seriously..

CHANGE YOUR VALVE STEM with EVERY tire change.. it's cheap and easy to do then. If they deflate at speed - it could be very unpleasant..

[j-budimlya]

having personally experienced a pre-mature valve stem failure....real pain...

and being a chemist with experience in rubber to metal adhesives and such stuff...

I am convinced that there has been a significant reduction in the quality of the valve stem parts that we are getting over the last few years.....

Older valve stems would last for many years and could be reused many times over....and they never separated.....at the rubber to metal interface.....

I have seen the recent stems get large "bubbles" in the rubber....too..

these two failure modes are signs of poor rubber to metal adhesion....and poor quality rubber...or poor curring of the rubber...or both....

I wish I had a fix for this problem.....I have started carrying an extra stem on my bike....its an unusual size and not easily found at the local auto parts store....

It sure is a shame that this continues to happen and the dealers act like it is normal....and to be expected.......it should not be happening.....IMHO

[Belquar]

My rear stem failed the same way recently. Rescue taped it back together. 60+ miles to the repair. Rescue tape will always be in my bags. So many uses.

[j-budimlya]

My rear stem failed the same way recently. Rescue taped it back together. 60+ miles to the repair. Rescue tape will always be in my bags. So many uses.

What is rescue tape?? you don't mean duct tape....

I would do an emergency repair with 5 min. epoxy(don't get this on the wheel or spokes, it would be tough to remove).....and only expect it to last long enough to get to a tire change place so a new valve stem can be installed...it is not simple to pull and insert a new valve stem.....I have recently changed my own tires....by hand....and one of the toughest parts is changing the valve stem.....it would be tough on the side of the road.....

[Belquar]

What is rescue tape?? you don't mean duct tape....

I would do an emergency repair with 5 min. epoxy(don't get this on the wheel or spokes, it would be tough to remove).....and only expect it to last long enough to get to a tire change place so a new valve stem can be installed...it is not simple to pull and insert a new valve stem.....I have recently changed my own tires....by hand....and one of the toughest parts is changing the valve stem.....it would be tough on the side of the road.....

http://www.rescuetape.com/

I bought some at the BIG GIG last January. Great stuff. Not sticky but fuses to itself in seconds. You can't pull it apart once it fuses. You have to cut it off. It currently holds my right front turn signal on securely after a cage hit me earlier this year. And it held the seal and stem in place when it rotted on me a while back as well. GOOD STUFF.

[PGlaves]

After my "both stems beside the road" episode - BMW ON "Benchwrenching" August, 2007 - I am going to metal stems on our bikes. As I change tires I am replacing the existing rubber stems with metal ones.

[JimVonBaden1]

After my "both stems beside the road" episode - BMW ON "Benchwrenching" August, 2007 - I am going to metal stems on our bikes. As I change tires I am replacing the existing rubber stems with metal ones.

I recently installed these on my 38K mile R1200GS "Sport".

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/P9204702.jpg

I had to slightly trim the sides on the front wheel, no need on the rear, and they work perfectly on GS wheels.

www.motorcycleanchor.com

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/tire_valves/cutaway_mcacom_345x224.jpg

Very nice, no exposed rubber to become damaged, and they make it much easier to check my tires.

I have 1600 miles on them so far, at speeds up to super-extra legal, and they perform perfectly. My friend Kermit has 30K on his with no issues.

Next tire change I am installing the Smartire system like I did in Tina's R1200ST last weekend.

Jim :brow

PS expect a How-too in my next video.:thumb

[DrPaul]

I recently installed these on my 38K mile R1200GS "Sport".

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/P9204702.jpg

I had to slightly trim the sides on the front wheel, no need on the rear, and they work perfectly on GS wheels.

www.motorcycleanchor.com

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/tire_valves/cutaway_mcacom_345x224.jpg

Very nice, no exposed rubber to become damaged, and they make it much easier to check my tires.

I have 1600 miles on them so far, at speeds up to super-extra legal, and they perform perfectly. My friend Kermit has 30K on his with no issues.

Next tire change I am installing the Smartire system like I did in Tina's R1200ST last weekend.

Jim :brow

PS expect a How-too in my next video.:thumb
Jim,
This looks terrific! I think I'll check them out. Thanks.

Paul

[Rebgen]

This might be a dumb question.........

do the metal stem replacements ever need to be replaced?

BTW, thanks for this thread. I'm changing my stems next tire change for sure.

[PGlaves]

This might be a dumb question.........

do the metal stem replacements ever need to be replaced?

BTW, thanks for this thread. I'm changing my stems next tire change for sure.

I don't know for sure. I had metal stems on my K75T for 19 years and 370,000 miles. I did change the little O rings once if I recall correctly.

[Rebgen]

Thanks Paul. And a belated thanks for the on scene advice on a potential tranny seal leak I was dealing with at the MOA. You helped me at the oil change area during the last day of the rally. I was riding the Maroon 98 R12C and you were helping the woman who was riding from San Francisco to Kentucky on a yellow K bike.

You help was much appreciated!

[PGlaves]

Thanks Paul. And a belated thanks for the on scene advice on a potential tranny seal leak I was dealing with at the MOA. You helped me at the oil change area during the last day of the rally. I was riding the Maroon 98 R12C and you were helping the woman who was riding from San Francisco to Kentucky on a yellow K bike.

You help was much appreciated!

You're welcome.

[JimVonBaden1]

This might be a dumb question.........

do the metal stem replacements ever need to be replaced?

BTW, thanks for this thread. I'm changing my stems next tire change for sure.

I would say that NEVER is not realistic, but since the rubber seals on these stems are not exposed to ozone, solvents or UV, they should last a long long time.

Jim :brow

[41107]

with all the junk that iis made in china and going into a bmw (wheel bearings for instants) it's to no suprise that a valve stem gives out.something that did not need replacement with every tire change years ago.just my 2 cents:scratch

[JimVonBaden1]

with all the junk that iis made in china and going into a bmw (wheel bearings for instants) it's to no suprise that a valve stem gives out.something that did not need replacement with every tire change years ago.just my 2 cents:scratch

Have you pulled one off a BMW yet? They are German made.

But rubber will eventually fail. Every time you replace car tires you should replace the valve stems, why not bikes every so often?

No one is saying you should replace them with every tire change. I had them on my R1100RS for 70K miles, still held air, on my R1100GS for 50K miles, no problem. But there is no rubber made that is impervious to UV, and all the other chemical hazards that valve stems are subjected to.


Jim :brow

[bricciphoto]

I recently installed these on my 38K mile R1200GS "Sport".

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/JimVonBaden2000/Service%20Video/accessories/P9204702.jpg


I just ordered one of these for my rear wheel. They look well engineered. :wave

[saab93driver]

After my "both stems beside the road" episode - BMW ON "Benchwrenching" August, 2007 - I am going to metal stems on our bikes. As I change tires I am replacing the existing rubber stems with metal ones.

It's been a bad year for me with rubber valve stems, 2 failed on my car just after tire replacement (new stems) and the rear one on my R1150RS swelled up like a little balloon on my way to Chicken Rally. Fortunately I caught it before it started to leak. HD of Gainesville, FL was able to change that out with another rubber one in under 30 minutes after I handed them the rim (long story but they seemed amazed I could pull the rear tire off in under 10 minutes, but they really got me out of a jamb and it was much appreciated).

Anyway, what size metal stems is everyone using and where do you get them?

[PETDOC]

I replaced my valve stems on my '04 GS with ones that appear very similar if not identical to those advertised by MotorcycleAnchor.com from Wunderlich through Santa Cruz BMW. If I remember correctly they were about $17 each.

[nrhodes1971]

Well, Guys, you sold me:

I'm way too fat and old to be tumbling down the road in the loving arms of a R 1150 RT, so I am replacing my valve stems with these metal versions at my next tire change, which should be Oct. 12.

I logged into the site and placed my order for a set of "black" stems, which comes to $32.95 USDollars and includes shipping and handling. Maybe a little pricey for valve stems, but the "insurence value" of not being "stranded" or "injured" seems worth it.

I bought my "pre-owned" R 1150 RT from Engle Motors, Kansas City in Sept. 2006 with about 28K miles on it and "relatively-new" Metzler Roadtech Z6's on it. I just finished a 2742-mile road trip to Montana and I'm sitting at roughly 41K now so I got about 13K out the Metzlers(no problems yet with tires or stems) and intend to go back to the same tires again.

The only wierd thing about the Metzler(s) is they take a lot of air. The Max-Cap is 44 lbs/psi and I've been running 41 in the front and 42 in the back. A Harley Mechanic in Belgrade, Montana told me that I was gettng some "cupping" on the front tire and should look into replaceing them. I'm just hoping the new metal stems can hold up to the pressure.

I will post again if I have any problems/questions about the new metal stems.--rock

[JimVonBaden1]

Well, Guys, you sold me:

I'm way too fat and old to be tumbling down the road in the loving arms of a R 1150 RT, so I am replacing my valve stems with these metal versions at my next tire change, which should be Oct. 12.

I logged into the site and placed my order for a set of "black" stems, which comes to $32.95 USDollars and includes shipping and handling. Maybe a little pricey for valve stems, but the "insurence value" of not being "stranded" or "injured" seems worth it.

I bought my "pre-owned" R 1150 RT from Engle Motors, Kansas City in Sept. 2006 with about 28K miles on it and "relatively-new" Metzler Roadtech Z6's on it. I just finished a 2742-mile road trip to Montana and I'm sitting at roughly 41K now so I got about 13K out the Metzlers(no problems yet with tires or stems) and intend to go back to the same tires again.

The only wierd thing about the Metzler(s) is they take a lot of air. The Max-Cap is 44 lbs/psi and I've been running 41 in the front and 42 in the back. A Harley Mechanic in Belgrade, Montana told me that I was gettng some "cupping" on the front tire and should look into replaceing them. I'm just hoping the new metal stems can hold up to the pressure.

I will post again if I have any problems/questions about the new metal stems.--rock


You wont have any trouble with them holding that pressure, they can hold much more.

Jim :brow

[bricciphoto]

I replaced my valve stems on my '04 GS with ones that appear very similar if not identical to those advertised by MotorcycleAnchor.com from Wunderlich through Santa Cruz BMW. If I remember correctly they were about $17 each.

The MotorcycleAnchor stems are sold in pairs, hence the $32.95 price. So I think there are comparable in terms of cost. I just got mine yesterday and they are nicely made. I plan to install them tonight when I swap my tires. :wave

[nrhodes1971]

Nope, couldn't get them to work

....or at least, I couldn't get them to work the "easy way" by handing them to my mechanic and saying, "here, install these when you put on the new tires..."

First there was the question about the size. We checked those against a naked, R1150 RT rim and they did appear to fit properly.

The deal-breaker came due to, for lack of a better term, a "forgery" line that runs between the spokes and too close to the valve stem opening. This line is probably a remaining scar from the wheel coming out of the forge, or somehow left over from the manufacturing process. It is not dis-similar from the picture above of the GS wheel, but smaller and rougher in shape. The line comes just close enough to prevent a good air seal with the metal stems, so the shop went back on with the regular rubber stems and I am the proud new owner of a pair of Metal Valve stems that I cannot use.

Of course, there is the "dark side." Authorized BMW dealership not wanting to take on the liabliity of installing non-BMW parts, etc. etc. etc. I won't delve into that, since I will never get a straight answer anyway...

Oh Yes, they can be MADE to work, but be prepared to grind down the wheel, or basically work for a "fitment" that will hold air and seal properly (at least if you have stock, R1150RT wheel rims.)

So where is my $32.95-worth of revenge? These beautiful black valve stems just became a christmas present for a buddy of mine who has a R1200 CLC. He will take them back to the same dealership on his next tire change and the exercise will begin all over again.

Bottom line: I am pretty sure they can be made to work, just be prepared for resistance from the tire dealer and you may have to work on the "fitment" yourself. -- rock

[DrPaul]

The deal-breaker came due to, for lack of a better term, a "forgery" line that runs between the spokes and too close to the valve stem opening. This line is probably a remaining scar from the wheel coming out of the forge, or somehow left over from the manufacturing process. It is not dis-similar from the picture above of the GS wheel, but smaller and rougher in shape. The line comes just close enough to prevent a good air seal with the metal stems, so the shop went back on with the regular rubber stems and I am the proud new owner of a pair of Metal Valve stems that I cannot use.

In the photo submitted by Jim Von Baden, it appears the shoulders of the device might have been shaved down a bit to fit between those ridges on the rims. Alternatively, I suppose one could remove a few mms of these ridges to permit the stem to sit flatly on the rim. Honestly, I'm just a little hesitant to do either unless someone has experience with one of these modifications. Anyone?

Dr. Paul

[JK]

BMW Motorrad takes time to address potential valve failure and sudden tire deflation in their Rider's Manual.

To Quote BMW's Note of Caution, "At high road speeds, the valves have a tendency to open as a result of centrifugal force. To avoid sudden loss of tire pressurem use a metal valve cap with rubber sealing ring on the rear wheel and tighten it securely."

My concerns and questions:

1) Why only identify the rear wheel?

2) Is the failure temporary (function of high speed) and valve re-seats/re-seals itself when speed reduced?

3) Or, is the failure permanent and stem needs immediate replacement once it happens (tight metal cap and rubber sealing ring are the only things preventing tire deflation)?

4) Or, is it a progressive weakening of the valve's ability to remain sealed, at speed?

Finally,

5) Are stems/valves speed rated, like tires, where some are better than others, when coping with higher centrifugal forces?


J.K.

[DrPaul]

BMW Motorrad takes time to address potential valve failure and sudden tire deflation in their Rider's Manual.

To Quote BMW's Note of Caution, "At high road speeds, the valves have a tendency to open as a result of centrifugal force. To avoid sudden loss of tire pressurem use a metal valve cap with rubber sealing ring on the rear wheel and tighten it securely."

My concerns and questions:

1) Why only identify the rear wheel?

2) Is the failure temporary (function of high speed) and valve re-seats/re-seals itself when speed reduced?

3) Or, is the failure permanent and stem needs immediate replacement once it happens (tight metal cap and rubber sealing ring are the only things preventing tire deflation)?

4) Or, is it a progressive weakening of the valve's ability to remain sealed, at speed?

Finally,

5) Are stems/valves speed rated, like tires, where some are better than others, when coping with higher centrifugal forces?


J.K.

My thoughts:

1) No idea! The front wheel spins at virtually the same RPM and the radii of the wheels are both 17" so centrifugal forces should be nearly equivalent. BTW, my valve stems did NOT fail in the valve core but between the rubber and the central brass tube. I can tell you from experience, the thrill factor is much higher when the front tire goes flat!

2) Again, don't know. If this theoretical loss of valve action caused by centrifugal force is real, it should only occur at very high speeds.

3) Any valve stem that fails on MY bike gets the boot!

4) Again, dunno.

5) No, unless there are super-secret high-speed valve stems I've never heard of!

Paul