PURE Digital subscription -VS- Print.

[Kutcher]

I KNOW this has been brought up before. But with more and more people visiting the website, does it not seem like a logical progressive movement to offer a Digital ONLY subscription...?

Reasons I bring this up:

1.) Thumbing through the mags I still have gathering dust in my reading basket. I'd venture a quick estimate that I'm missing (now this means I (DID NOT) receive at all) ~1 out of 7 mags...Never in the mailbox, not seen, MIA...Someone, somewhere is enjoying a few copies that must of interested them...? Or maybe the wife tossed them before I saw them!? Either way, "I ain't got 'Em".

2.) Of the ones I do have, most arrive dogeared. Not that I need a crisp clean magazine to enjoy the internals, but it is supposedly a new mag...

3.) I am in no way a "Tree hugger". But I've learned that there is no way I can keep every mag that enters my office or home. I rip out what interests me/ what may in the future - and toss the rest. So why get it in print form to begin with when a high % will get tossed? I do not mean that in a bad way, please reread item 3...

4.) I'm not talking digital like those PDF files on the home page. I'm talking the interactive magazines that are put out every month in some of the trade journals that I get. Most are produced using "idigital". http://www.idigitaledition.com/
Here is a brief description:

"An iDigital Edition digital magazine is an enhanced electronic magazine replica presented in an on-screen flip-page format . This online "print magazine layout" format digital magazine can be viewed by anyone, anywhere, anytime over the Internet. Our digital magazine solution provides new readership, advertiser, publication brand, and profitability growth opportunities for publishers.

The iDigital Edition digital magazine versions do not require your digital edition subscribers or guests to download and install additional client reader software to their PC. Users access your digital magazine versions through their current Internet browser and the standard flash plugin already present in most every Internet enabled computer today!"

I actually like these when I get them at work. I'm able to print out what I want and not worry about the rest. Its even got live links to other sites referenced.

Now is it a financially wise choice to say; "OK, you want digital only? that'll be $xx less per year than a traditional membership..."

Where would that leave yah'? Let me play the bad guy in this scenario...

Possibly when you start seeing more drop the paper, the cost of printing less mags would more than likely go up...
So would the $$ difference of a lower cost Digital membership only -vs- the possible rise in costs involved with a lower rate of traditional paperback subscriptions...Be advantageous? Who knows, maybe yah' might perk the interest of a more younger computer savvy crowd thats just waiting to be a part of BMW Motorrad -their way and at a cost more in line with their current income level.
Remember how BMW is trying to push what others have already been doing? "Cradle to grave sales...Options for those of all ages".

I don't know. But I do know that I'm missing a handful of mags that I've seen sitting at the dealer over the years. And I'd be quite happy being able to print out and view the mag when I want (probably sooner than I'd get it in the mail) and save -only that which I wanted to.

Food for thought.

[Visian]

zinio (http://www.zinio.com/) is another good supplier for this. there's a plug in, but....

ian

[Motor31]

Having a database of the articles from the magazine, particularly the technical or maintenance ones would be nice. It would save on space in the house so you wouldn't need to maintain several years worth of magazines to keep interesting articles.

This is the 21'st century, time to catch up to the 20th century.
:nyah

[userw5]

1.) Thumbing through the mags I still have gathering dust in my reading basket. I'd venture a quick estimate that I'm missing (now this means I (DID NOT) receive at all) ~1 out of 7 mags...Never in the mailbox, not seen, MIA...Someone, somewhere is enjoying a few copies that must of interested them...? Or maybe the wife tossed them before I saw them!? Either way, "I ain't got 'Em".


I believe if you send a note to the HQ they will replace a copy you have not received.

[vincewinkel]

That is great food for thought. Kutcher. We've discussed these options some the past 2 years and we will continue to do so.

Digital options are very attractive, and somewhere down that road it could happen.

Feel free to call me directly if you like to discuss this more, or email me at vince@bmwmoa.org

Thanks for the post! Good stuff.

Vince
Media Editor, BMW MOA
Editor, BMW ON

[OfficerImpersonator]

All my copies of "ON" end up in the "library".

Luckily, paper copies of ON won't electrocute you if they get wet! I get why an electronic copy would work for many. I think it should be an option. I don't like killing trees to produce "ON" or any of the myriad other magazines I receive each month.

But it has to be transportable and "library" proof. "ON" on a laptop simply won't cut it.

[jdmetzger]

I'm all for this ideas as well (I actually supported it in my unsuccessful run for MOA president), although personally, I'd probably keep getting the dead-tree edition so I could pass it along to a prospective member.

I still support charging the same amount for "electronic only", with the exception of charging the "standard in-USA rate" for people who are out of country and pay extra for postage. You can argue about paying less because you're not using trees or postage, but you ARE still using MOA bandwidth for reading the magazine. If there is a search function, that's even worth a few dollars, as well.

[Rapid_Roy]

All my copies of "ON" end up in the "library".

.....
Wouldn't Toilet paper be cheaper?:stick (kidding)

[wuli959]

Great thing about a electronic only version is that it could be e-mailed to everyone and anyone. :brow

Sure would cut down on all those posers that are only BMWMOA paying members so they can receive the magazine. :D



:whistle

[r11rs94]

I still support charging the same amount for "electronic only", with the exception of charging the "standard in-USA rate" for people who are out of country and pay extra for postage. You can argue about paying less because you're not using trees or postage, but you ARE still using MOA bandwidth for reading the magazine. If there is a search function, that's even worth a few dollars, as well.[/QUOTE]

My local club www.oceanstatebmwriders.com went completely paperless this year. We slowly phased the paper newsletter out. We first started by asking members who did not want paper, to op-out of receiving it. In the first year over half of the 100 members were receiving the newletter by e-mail only. This was about two years ago. We did have 3 members drop out because of this, but mailing out three hard copies was not cost effective, and we did offer alternate options. The savings to the clubs treasury has been dramatic. Postage just keeps just going up and getting people to volunteer to mail out a 100+ newsletters a month was getting harder to do. With that said I pesonaly do like to recieve the ON as well as the OTL Rags. :gerg

[sjbmw]

An Adobe version would make reading it in work easier :)

[jdmetzger]

Great thing about a electronic only version is that it could be e-mailed to everyone and anyone. :brow

Sure would cut down on all those posers that are only BMWMOA paying members so they can receive the magazine. :D



:whistle

There are certain ways to "secure" an online document, although they would likely stop people from being able to print things out, as well. I have even seen software that makes it impossible to take a screenshot of anything; although the latter requires web browser plug-ins that people may not want to install. Then again, if they DON'T want to install them, they can still get the paper version, eh? :)

[Kutcher]

I believe if you send a note to the HQ they will replace a copy you have not received.

Thanks for the reminder Jeff.
But I try and keep up when I drop in at MAXs every know and again...

Kutch

[bobh41]

Who knows, maybe yah' might perk the interest of a more younger computer savvy crowd thats just waiting to be a part of BMW Motorrad -their way and at a cost more in line with their current income level.

I don't mean to be simply contentious, but "a more younger computer savvy crowd" is a pretty worn out concept, especially among the evidently highly literate, upscale and financially well off constituency of this forum.

Mainstream electronic communication has existed for half a century in this country. The PC became immediately popular in 1981, behind USENET. You could easily use the same phrasing in regard to the telephone, with equal veracity.

There does appear to be an age related difference in printed literature in that older people enjoy reading books much more than younger people. It affects not only book and magazine distribution - but also literacy rates, both of which are declining at this time.

With that off my chest, I agree a digital version of ON is desirable, but not an EXCLUSIVELY digital version.

In my opinion the ON magazine constitutes an art form as well as an information medium. I happen to think it is artfully done, and I appreciate the work and the thought that goes into it; it is a part of the pleasure I derive from reading it. Turning the pages just does something for me that the PAGE DOWN key never does.

I can toss ON into my back pack much more easily than I can my laptop and haul it on any road trip. It's also a little handier in the "library" than a laptop or a Blackberry.

The "batteries" never fail, and if someone steals it, I'm not out a couple $K.

Several of my magazines have arrived in the mail in a USPS plastic bag containing only the cover with a note: "Your magazine was damaged in shipment. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you..." This hasn't happened with ON - the others I can always go to Border's to read.

I do read a LOT of digital information, but please don't take away the beautifully done ON hard copy magazine. I like it, plus, I can carry it around with the nice cover showing and feel just as proud of the attention as if I had LOUD MUFFLERS. :clap

[vincewinkel]

... please don't take away the beautifully done ON hard copy magazine. I like it, plus, I can carry it around with the nice cover showing and feel just as proud of the attention as if I had LOUD MUFFLERS. :clap

I assure you the hard copy is safe and sound. When we have discussed digital distribution in the past, is has always been as something done in addition to the printed magazine. The hard copy remains safe.

And I'd like to add that while we have discussed new formats, the staff and Board have by no means come close to deciding to move forward with these other types of distribution options.

Thanks,
Vince Winkel
Media Editor, BMW MOA

[Mika]

Where’s the content?

The only thing preventing an electronic BMW MOA publication from being put out on a daily basis is ourselves.

The discussion so far has been around how to deliver the content and the advantages and disadvantages of the electronic and print versions. There has been no discussion of the content.

ON did not spring forth from the pulp mills in bound four color print. The original print version was crude and developed into the high gloss high class version we love now. An electronic version will begin the same way.

Members provide the content for ON. The forum is a crude electronic mimeograph with which we may publish content. Yet there is little content being generated. We are the ones that produce the content; the delivery method will grow as our production and taste for it does.

[Motor31]

John,

IIRC one of the main objections has been a copyright issue. The authors agreement didn't specify reprints in electronic or other media.

Another objection to electronic communication is that it is assumed that many members do not live in the 21'st century and therefore do not play well with computers. :snore :rolleyes :stick

[Mika]

The point I am trying to make is not how we publish the current print magazine online. To simply move ON from a print magazine to an electronic one may have merit but is not my point.

Rather the goal I am arguing for is an electronic presence that augments what is done in print. There is nothing stopping that from happening beyond members being willing to see value in publishing a work online rather than print. It can happen now. It does not take an expenditure of capital, addition of staff or board approval to start. It does take effort on our part to start.

[sjbmw]

Why not archive past issues in PDF files? Even the ads? For members only of course.

[Mika]

PDF files have been posted on the home page. Here is the current headliner.

http://www.bmwmoa.org/features/silkroad.htm

Why not produce more on our own.

[Greenwald]

I assure you the hard copy is safe and sound. When we have discussed digital distribution in the past, is has always been as something done in addition to the printed magazine. The hard copy remains safe.

And I'd like to add that while we have discussed new formats, the staff and Board have by no means come close to deciding to move forward with these other types of distribution options.

Thanks,
Vince Winkel
Media Editor, BMW MOA

Thanks Vince - I for one am glad to hear we are staying with a printed medium. No computer terminal in my bathroom at this time - TV would come first!

Seriously, I often choose to display the ON at my classes (teach MSF curriculum), take with me when I travel, display to friends (both of them!), use as an MOA recruiting tool or just curl up with in my easy chair late at night to relax with current or older issues.

If I have to print them out to be mobile, am I not still killing a tree, somewhere on the planet?!

Some of us are less electronically dependant than others, and neither own a lap top nor even visit our desk tops daily. The monthly issue is, in my humble and I suspect lonely opinion, superior to internet grazing, and would prefer it to remain the MOA's vanguard method of communication.

We already have the Forum, with too much sqauking, finger-pointing and "my way or the highway" rhetoric - of the two mediums, guess which one I could live without if such a choice had to be made?!

[BradfordBenn]

One of the things to think about, and I am a electronic person, is that there are also challenges of the "electronic" age that will suprise you. So here are my opinions:

1) The amount of "I can not figure out how to work this thing" calls and e-mails will go up. The solution would need to be supported on multiple operating systems, hardware, and software packages. I know from just supporting electronic distribution of stuff at work, that just because it works unders Windows XP Pro running Internet Explorer 7 - does not mean that it runs under Mac OS X running Safari which also does not insure it will run under Firefox on either machine.

I have very rarely seen people have trouble getting the magazine out of the mailbox and opening it. Of course the magazine can be delayed or damaged but the same thing can happen electronically.

2) As M1ka alluded to, we, the members, need to provide content for the magazine and for the electronic version. That is a whole lot more content. Also for that information to be reviewed and editted would require more resources.

3) There is also the question of what happens with copyrights and advertisements

Would I like to see an online searchable database of articles, yes. Would I like to receive only an electronic copy of the magazine, no. For me they do not work. I spend enough time staring at computers for work and the like that I like having the printed page. Also with the amount of time I spend on airplanes I never have to worry about turning off the magazine or it running out of batteries.

I have tried electronic copies and for me, I prefer the magazine.

[Kutcher]

The program I referred to in the opening post actually points to the fact of how secure and easy it is for many types of systems to open and view the contents.

And maybe I should have thought twice before mentioning "PURE" digital in the opening comment.

I really did not imply that the paperbacks be removed completely from production, simply, there should be an alternative (which "could" be easier) for a great many of us to use.

And what about all the worldly travelers out and about? They'd be able to keep up with the latest and greatest copies where ever they went.
"I've heard that some of these MOA types are on the road for more than a month at a time!:nod :rolleyes "


Heck, look how many of you are responding to this thread...digitally...:blush
Kutch

[Kutcher]

For instance...

This is a notice I just got....
Left hand side has "guide info" to navigating the magazines...


http://redigitaleditions.com/activemagazine/welcome/rdn/rdn071008.asp

[bobh41]

With digital copy you can always read it on your Blackberry while cruising down the highway on your luxo-tourer. :whistle

[donbmw]

I would like to see and archive of back issues on CD or in this Fourm. I donot keep any oil copies of ON. I have been scanning what I wanted to keep. It would be nice to be able to see back issue sometime.

Don

[BobMielke]

I've been a computer & internet geek since they were made available to the public. I work for Intel Corp making computer chips. I would be thrilled to support and technology that saves our environment more damage. I also feel the electronic medium would drastically reduce the cost of production as well as expidite it's delivery. I doubt the content for this magazine is received primarily through snail mail.

Count me as +1 vote for an internet based BMWON magazine.

[wmubrown]

I don't believe print material will go the way of the dodo anytime soon, there is something satisfying about flipping pages and having the left side grow larger as the right side diminishes, indicating progress - especially when reading a LARGE book. A digital format would be a great addition though... I can't count how many times I've gone flipping through a stack of ON's (and other mags) looking for a particular article, or portion of. It would be great to be able to do a word search on-line and either pull up the article, or at least get the issue information and pull out the correct magazine.

[GlobalRider]

I can't count how many times I've gone flipping through a stack of ON's (and other mags) looking for a particular article, or portion of.

BTW, is there an updated directory of articles somewhere?

[Motor31]

I would be happy with a dual style issue. A print version just as we have now. An electronic version available to members through the web site as well as an archive of previous issues with all of the technical material in them.

That way everyone would get the best of both worlds. For those who are still in the 19th century (non computer literate) they still have the paper. For those who are computer literate you have access if you want it and especially the data base of all of the previous issues. The actual cost to the club is minimal. The web site already exists and electronic storage is pretty darn cheap (cheaper than storing boxed stacks of old magazines). I imagine the magazine is in digital format to go to the printers so it should be pretty darn simple.

:thumb