final drive leak?

[stevenlyerly]

I just came in from about a 100 mile ride and when I parked my R1150RT I noticed a pretty goof leak coming from the final drive. It's dripping a good sized drop of oil about evey 3 seconds. I looked all around the tire and found no sign of oil, which I find odd. It looks like it is coming from behind where the wheel bolts to the hub. As soon as the exaust cools off I'll pull the wheel and see just where it is leaking.

What do you who know think I am in for? $$$$ I bet:sick

The bike only has 30K miles. I just last month returned from a 5300 mile trip out west. I'm glad it did not happen then.

Any advise would be grand.

Cheers,
Steven

[PGlaves]

Let us know specifically where it is leaking and we can provide a pretty good diagnosis.

[jingdog]

A new seal under the area where the wheel bolts on is only like $10. You might try removing the wheel and probing the area around the seal with the pointy end of a small zip tie. There might be dirt in there. But it sounds to me like the seal is blowm. Possibly the bearings are shot causing the seal to leak.

[Kwazimoto]

That`s how I found my first final drive blown. The pieces of bearing rolling around in there ruined the seal.I repaired mine myself, but stealership shouldn`t be more than $4-500.

[r1150gsadvrider]

Welcome to the club! Don't risk a failure on a ride. $400.00 or less will buy you a new crown bearing and seal, properly installed by a trained BMW service tech.

[stevenlyerly]

I took off the wheel today and looked around the seal. It does appear that is where the leak is coming from. The seal did not look in bad shape, or dirty. I placed a towel down to try and catch the oil that has dripped out over the past two days. The oil looked in good shape and I could find no metal fragments, that I could see, just some break dust. I took some pictures of the area and will post them later today.

I guess the next step would be ti remove the cover on the final drive and take a look inside? Any tips on doing this?

Thanks
Steven

[stevenlyerly]

Let's see if this works

[stevenlyerly]

Again

[stevenlyerly]

Another

[stevenlyerly]

a little closer, the pooling oil looks like the seal is distorted, but it is not, at least to my eye it looks even all around the hub. You can see that the outside of the hub is a little rusty, not as bad as the center, I'm wondering if this has worn the seal out?

Is there anything I need to know about opening this unit up to further investigate and or replace the seal?

Thanks
Steven

[PGlaves]

The big question is whether the bearing failed which has damaged the seal, or if it is just a seal failure. Most cases I've heard of on this type final drive, unfortunately, have been a bearing failure.

The first thing I'd do is drain the oil into a clean container - then examine the magnet and the oil for signs of metal debris. If there are no signs of debris and no play in the hub/crownwheel then a seal replacement would take care of it. Check the oil carefully.

When you remove the cover the big bearing and the crownwheel/ring gear come with it. Careful - it is heavy - don't drop it.

To remove the cover you need to apply a little heat with a heat gun around the perimeter of the cover. Then remove the bolts holding it to the case. These are an unusual size - take a 7mm allen instead of a 6 or 8.

The cover, bearings and crownwheel all come out of the casetogether. Then a little additional heating around just outside the seal area will allow you to lift the cover off the bearing outer race. Expect to find shims between the bearing and the cover - don't lose or damage them. Once the cover is off the crownwheel you will be able to see, examine, and turn the big ball bearing.

[jingdog]

a little closer, the pooling oil looks like the seal is distorted, but it is not, at least to my eye it looks even all around the hub. You can see that the outside of the hub is a little rusty, not as bad as the center, I'm wondering if this has worn the seal out?

Is there anything I need to know about opening this unit up to further investigate and or replace the seal?

Thanks
Steven

I saw the same thing when I got my 96 GS when it was 11 years old. I removed the rear wheel and first thing I did was clean up the hub where to wheel goes on. What a mess!. I would think that you do have a bearing failure to make it leak but if not I would suspect the dirty area around the seal.

[stevenlyerly]

Ok, I removed the drain plug today and was amazed at all the metal shavings! The oil that drained out also had a lot of flakes in it, and was a much darker color than the oil that was leaking by the seal? I'm guessing the darker color is a result of the metal, and they had all sunk to the bottom of the case.

Looks like i'm in for the worst. I'm not happy that this thing has failed at only 30K miles. Is this a comon problem with BMW? I guess I'll know that tomarrow when I call the dealer. If they have the parts in stock, the answer is yes.

[PHMarvin]

Hi, Stephen,
I would think again about calling your dealer for this problem. How many of these have they ever done? Will they do it right, e.g., check the shimming and make sure it is correct, or will they just replace the bearing and "know" the shimming was correct from the factory? Were it me, I would call the pros - Tom Cutter, Anton Largiader, Ted Porter, Oak, someone like that. If one of them does it, you can be sure it was done correctly. Of course, this is my opinion and the advice is free, so you know what it's worth.
Ride Safe,

[chrisZ]

Its not too difficult to do it yourself. I've done mine a week ago. Just removed the cover with the crown bearing and replaced the big bearing, seal and the large O ring. Didn't touch anything else, and hence used the existing shim. End result is that I saved $600. (The dealer quoted me $800 plus taxes if I bring in the FD for them to do the work!) There is a large volume of info on various sites on how to do this rework, but a manual will also be of value.

Before replacing the bearing, my FD fluid was very dark with many metal flakes in the oil. (Also the bike had an odd vibration, which went away with the new bearing.)

[stevenlyerly]

Hi chrisZ

How many miles were on your bike when it failed?

[chrisZ]

Hi chrisZ

How many miles were on your bike when it failed?

Approximately 95K km.

[stevenlyerly]

If I had that many miles/km on my bike I might be more understanding. I still would not like it but I understand that things wear out. I just think that 30K miles is not a lot of miles for this thing to fail. Of course it is a year out of warranty.

[chrisZ]

Steven, I completely concur.

These things should last the life of the bike or in this day and age, at least 100K Miles (160K km) and not fail as the bike has just been 'broken in'. Do the work yourself if you can and from then on replace the FD fluid with every oil change. This will keep you abreast of the bearing condition (ie, when looking at the colour of fluid and metal flakes).

[swarthy1]

Steven:

Just a quick heads up on this subject. I recently experienced a rear "big bearing" failure on my '99 R1100S with just under 26K miles. I ordered replacement parts including the bearing, shims, and o-ring for about $150 from Chicago BMW on 09/04/07 and the parts still have not been received at the dealer. It seems that there has been a run on these parts this year and the supply system is not keeping up with the demand, unless the parts are already in stock at the dealer. BMW NA has had to request the parts from Germany and thus the extended delay.

My advice is to check around and see who has the parts in stock and go with them. I committed to Chicago BMW this time around but not necessarily again in the future. And for whatever good it will do I plan to write to BMW Motorcycles NA and let them know again about the bearing failure and the failure of their parts supply system to keep up with these failures.

Mike in Melbourne, FL

'99 R1100S
'00 K1200RS

[chrisZ]

See:

http://www.rightspin.com/mc/misc/mpfs/mpfs.htm

from here

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/443693/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

[AntonLargiader]

I ordered replacement parts including the bearing, shims, and o-ring for about $150 from Chicago BMW on 09/04/07 and the parts still have not been received at the dealer.

I stock these bearings and shims for repairs, and when I reorder I always have them within days. Chicago is notorious for long delays in parts shipment. It's not NA's fault; there are plenty of them available.

[BubbaZanetti]

I stock these bearings and shims for repairs, and when I reorder I always have them within days. Chicago is notorious for long delays in parts shipment. It's not NA's fault; there are plenty of them available.

yup, max may be a bit more expensive, but after one negative experience with chicago, my business goes exclusively to max now.

and you get a free bag of m&m's :bow

[stevenlyerly]

:thumb Well I have an up-date on the final drive issue.

I called my dealer, Carolina BMW last week telling them of the issue. They said the replacement of the final drive unit was going to be a 1,000 before labor, another 200.

The service manager, Richard, gave me the 800 number to BMW NA, told me to call them and tell them what's up, and that he thought they would most likely help me out with some of the cost of the parts maybe half if I was lucky. After all, the bike only has 30K miles on it eventhough it is a year over the warranty time.

I called BMW NA. Talked with a nice guy named Casy. I told him of my problem, how I thought it was wrong that the final drive should fail so soon. That this was my 4th BMW, that I've only owned BMW's.

He took the VIN number and my info and said he would look into it. He said the first thing I had to do was get the bike to a dealer, there was nothing he could do over the phone without a tech looking at the bike.

I took the bike to Carolina BMW today. Before I got there, Casy had called Richard and they went over my service history, for this bike as well as my previous bikes. Eveything had been done by the book. They saw that I was a loyal customer and all that.

So, BMW NA is picking up the cost of the parts! I do have to pay the labor, about 170 they say.

I think it is very good that BMW is standing behind this issue. I think a lot of it has to do with the dealership. I feel they really went to bat for me. I feel they are first rate, I've never had an issue with their service. And, when the time comes for me to buy another motorcycle, it will be a BMW, and I will buy that BMW from Carolina. :)

I hope to have the bike back in about 10 days. I can't wait, the weather is starting to get cool. The leaves are starting to change. It's time for a trip on the BRP! I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Cheers!

[chrisZ]

:jawdrop

Very nice. Sounds like good folks. Congrats!

[blake]

i find myself with a leak just like the one pictured. does anyone happen to have the bearing and seal part numbers?
i'm looking at the fiche but would like to be sure before ordering.
if i'm going to be in there i figure i may as well replace the bearing. the bike's got about 80k on it.

[BubbaZanetti]

i find myself with a leak just like the one pictured. does anyone happen to have the bearing and seal part numbers?
i'm looking at the fiche but would like to be sure before ordering.
if i'm going to be in there i figure i may as well replace the bearing. the bike's got about 80k on it.

if your bearing isn't bad, i don't think i'd replace it as a "while i'm in there" type measure. truth be told, you don't even have to open up the final drive to replace that particular seal.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

i find myself with a leak just like the one pictured. does anyone happen to have the bearing and seal part numbers?
i'm looking at the fiche but would like to be sure before ordering.
if i'm going to be in there i figure i may as well replace the bearing. the bike's got about 80k on it.

If your bearing has lasted that long, the preload must have been right on the money!! Just measure the width of the old bearing and compare it to the new one. The shims in the FD and the old bearing have a certain width measurement combined (preload), make sure that the new bearing, with those shims, will add up to the same number and you should be fine. I hope I made sense here..:scratch

[blake]

if the seal that is leaking is the one i can do without pulling things apart i think i'll go that route.
time for more fiche digging.

[Troutluck]

To remove the cover you need to apply a little heat with a heat gun around the perimeter of the cover.
Don't know about the 1150, but on the 1100 the screws require a LOT of heat and are made of butter to begin with. My dealer has a bag of these in the shop for DIYers like me who strip them out. Otherwise, looks like an easy job. I never found out.

[jfduclos]

Its not too difficult to do it yourself. I've done mine a week ago. Just removed the cover with the crown bearing and replaced the big bearing, seal and the large O ring. Didn't touch anything else, and hence used the existing shim. End result is that I saved $600. (The dealer quoted me $800 plus taxes if I bring in the FD for them to do the work!) There is a large volume of info on various sites on how to do this rework, but a manual will also be of value.

Before replacing the bearing, my FD fluid was very dark with many metal flakes in the oil. (Also the bike had an odd vibration, which went away with the new bearing.)

After a short ride yesterday, I got off my R850R (46,000 mi) to find the rear wheel absolutely soaked with final drive fluid. There is no play in the wheel, but when turned it sounds and feels like bearing failure.There also was quite a bit of metal flakes in the drained fluid. I searched all the threads in this forum on the subject, but still have questions:
1) Where do I find this"large volume of info" on the job?
2) Paul Glaves said when the final drive cover is removed to be careful not to drop it. Does this mean that the work can be done without removing the FD from the bike?

3) I try to do all my own wrenching, and I'm sure that I could replace the large bearing and seal, but Anton has me worried that the shim installed at the factory may be the wrong thickness, and I don't have the specialized tools to do the real repair job. Is it wrong thinking that I can afford to do this myself four or five times for the price of the local dealer doing it. Also I don't have the patience to wait for the local dealer to work me in to his heavy schedule. What do I do?

[knary]

:bluduh

[GrafikFeat]

After a short ride yesterday, I got off my R850R (46,000 mi) to find the rear wheel absolutely soaked with final drive fluid. There is no play in the wheel, but when turned it sounds and feels like bearing failure.There also was quite a bit of metal flakes in the drained fluid. I searched all the threads in this forum on the subject, but still have questions:

Make sure you go HERE! (http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/index.html) This is a registry for blown Final Drives to show BMW the scope of the problem! :deal

[jfduclos]

I've decided to take on the job of replacing the one bearing, the seal, and the large O ring, utilizing the old shim. When I removed the rear brake disc, the seal behind had obviously been pushed outward from within. It was very easy to prise it out the rest of the way. What I found was ugly!
I heated and removed the eight bolts that secure the Cover, but I'm having trouble pulling the thing out, how much force should I expect it to take?

[blake]

i finally got around to tearing into my final drive. unfortunately i ordered the wrong parts, so i have to do more fiche hunting to get the correct seal.

the bearings on mine are fine, but once i removed the seal i could see a bit of rusty looking area on the metal surface. whats the best way to go about removing this and getting things happy again. as it sits i think a new seal is just going to get eaten up like the current one. this bike sat for 2yrs before i got it. it apparently didn't like that much.

here's the area i'm talking about.
is the part i need the "grooved ball bearing" 33121242210? i thought it was a much cheaper.

http://fallingunderstatic.com/moto/r1100rs/RS_finaldrive/DSC04468.jpg