Hand Salute!

[PAULBACH]

From one of my military brothers:

Will David
Southern Mississippi

WASHINGTON, D.C. - August 8, 2007. U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) today praised
the passage by unanimous consent of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow
veterans and servicemen not in uniform to salute the flag.

Current law (US Code Title 4, Chapter 1) states that veterans and
servicemen not in uniform should place their hand over their heart without
clarifying whether they can or should salute the flag.

"The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one's
military service," Senator Inhofe said. "Veterans and service members continue
representing the military services even when not in uniform.

"Unfortunately, current U.S. law leaves confusion as to whether veterans
and service members out of uniform can or should salute the flag. My legislation
will clarify this regulation, allowing veterans and servicemen alike to salute the
flag, whether they are in uniform or not.

"I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at
baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an appropriate way
to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the United States who have
served in the military and remain as role models to other citizens. Those who are
currently serving or have served in the military have earned this right, and their
recognition will be an inspiration to others."

[Motor31]

I prefer the "present arms" and "order arms". Hand salute sounds so amaturish and awkward.
:dunno

In any case, :usa

[hlothery]

Except that now I will be really confused.......now I take off my hat and hold it over my heart. When a military member renders a salute, the hat stays on. What should I do......what should I do?:dunno

[r11rs94]

Thanks for the heads up. I will pass this along to other vets. :usa

[GSTom]

Many years ago as a Boy Scout, I remember learning that proper flag etiquette was that when not wearing a uniform (either Boy Scout or Military) the proper flag salute was removal of the hat if worn, and placing the right hand over the heart.

This was also what I re-learned while serving in the armed forces as I recall. I don't know where or when the tradition of saluting the flag by veterans in civilian clothing began. I do seem to recall that during veteran's events in which a VFW or American Legion hat is worn in lieu of a uniform, it is correct to salute, but not under other circumstances.

Can anyone clarify this?

[hlothery]

I believe the Uniform Code of Military Justice stipulates not rendering a salute unless in uniform, but I am not certain. I guess this bill, if signed into law, will change that. IMHO, a stetson held over the heart is a substantial salute to the flag. I guess what I will do is that, if I happen to be wearing one. If I am hatless, and the bill is signed into law, I'll be happy to render a salute. :usa

[Motor31]

Except that now I will be really confused.......now I take off my hat and hold it over my heart. When a military member renders a salute, the hat stays on. What should I do......what should I do?:dunno


I suppose you could either leave the hat on or take it off and hold it at your side with the left hand and salute bareheaded

[PAULBACH]

I think the correct protocol will be to salute with cover on regardless of cover.

The uniform item that is most often worn incorrectly is that the union of stars should face forward.

All military uniforms have the etiquette correct. Always dismayed to see how many civilian uniforms with the flag sewed on have the flag facing the wrong direction.

[bigdelta]

I think the correct protocol will be to salute with cover on regardless of cover.

The uniform item that is most often worn incorrectly is that the union of stars should face forward.

All military uniforms have the etiquette correct. Always dismayed to see how many civilian uniforms with the flag sewed on have the flag facing the wrong direction.

a law that makes sense for us vets.

[sgtboring]

You are at a ball game or a public event and knuckleheads are talking sitting and will not remover their hats? :banghead

I would take my hat off and salute unless the hat was tasteful or a issue item. :thumb

Perhaps I am a sap, but I teared up when I heard the American National Anthem when I graduated Basic in 89 and still do in 07. I have seen with my own eyes what others have sacrificed for this nation. I have always felt that the red in the flag stood for the millions of Vets that bled for our freedom. :usa

[PAULBACH]

Different services have different traditions for certain.

In Navy cannot render hand salute unless covered - complete uniform necessary. Covers are removed immediately upon entering a building so no saluting inside buildings unless you are at colors.

If I remove cover will place it over heart as usual. But now if the cover is "tasteful" can render salute. Makes the vets stand out which I think was purpose of legislation.

:usa

[bigdelta]

You are at a ball game or a public event and knuckleheads are talking sitting and will not remover their hats? :banghead

I would take my hat off and salute unless the hat was tasteful or a issue item. :thumb

Perhaps I am a sap, but I teared up when I heard the American National Anthem when I graduated Basic in 89 and still do in 07. I have seen with my own eyes what others have sacrificed for this nation. I have always felt that the red in the flag stood for the millions of Vets that bled for our freedom. :usa

until the life drains out of them!Or maybe that same legislator could pass a law to have them deported to a country where pride in your country didn't mean squat.
'89 from Basic?Whew,I'm old.Feb '71 from Ft Jackson.:usa

[cwoflyboy]

I was a shallow water sailor for a little over 30 years. I'm not too concerned if the salute is not exactly "regulation". I look at saluting like I do praying, it's that you want to show respect and what you feel inside that counts.
Take care

Dale Moore

[PAULBACH]

Can't argue with that.

Carry On.

[Jamming]

You are at a ball game or a public event and knuckleheads are talking sitting and will not remover their hats? :banghead

. :usa


Sarge, I put on my best Icy stare, look directly at them and tell them
" stand up, shut up, remove your hat and show some respect for your flag.
A lot of men and women have died so that you can be here.

I'm a Vet and WILL salute the flag now, EVERY time I can.

Rog

[hondarider]

I'm an Army vet working for the Navy these days...they rolled this news out on Friday...I'm pretty excited about it...I haven't had the oppurtunity to salute the flag in a long long time...I'm in favor of any measure that draws attention to the flag and what it stands for...assuming that I'm not wearing any sort of military cover, I imagine I'll remove my hat with my left and salute with my right...proudly.

[gfspencer]

Different services have different traditions for certain.

In Navy cannot render hand salute unless covered - complete uniform necessary. Covers are removed immediately upon entering a building so no saluting inside buildings unless you are at colors.

It's the same in the Army.


I'm a vet . . . retired Army Chaplain with 31+ years of service! But I guess I am going to be the odd man out because I don't think that this new law does anything but muddy the waters. I saw two folks the other day doing salutes and they obviously had no prior service (two young girls). So now - with this new law – when vets in civilian cloths salute, other civilians are just going to be confused? Folks are going to see vets - in civilian cloths - rendering a hand salute and they're going to think that it is all right for them to do it as well.

It's like flying The Flag at half-staff when someone dies. That tradition has gotten all messed up lately. Only the President can authorize that but a local volunteer fireman died the other day on the way to a fire and the county (county. . . not Country) is flying The Flag at half-staff. They are not supposed to do that . . . as sad as the loss of a fire fighter may be.

Flag protocol . . . salute protocol . . . was established for a purpose. Why change it?

I'm going to continue to put my hand over my heart.

And I salute every single one of your who are veterans. Thank you for your service!

[PHMarvin]

It's the same in the Army.
And I salute every single one of your who are veterans. Thank you for your service!

Hi, GF Spencer,
You're welcome!:usa
Phil Marvin (ex) QM2(SS)
USS Nathan Hale SSB(N)623(G)

[Motor31]

gfspencer,

I don't mind a bit if a civilian salutes the flag same as a Veteran. I'd rather have them doing that than sitting on their butts during the National Anthem or simply ignoring the flag as it passed by in review.


Rendered honors is still honorable as long as the motivation is sincere. We aren't honoring the flag anyhow, just what it symbolizes and it can be important to someone who never put on the green suit just as it is to a Veteran.
:usa

[gfspencer]

gfspencer,

I don't mind a bit if a civilian salutes the flag same as a Veteran. I'd rather have them doing that than sitting on their butts during the National Anthem or simply ignoring the flag as it passed by in review.

Excellent point.

[The_Veg]

This was also what I re-learned while serving in the armed forces as I recall. I don't know where or when the tradition of saluting the flag by veterans in civilian clothing began. I do seem to recall that during veteran's events in which a VFW or American Legion hat is worn in lieu of a uniform, it is correct to salute, but not under other circumstances.
Can anyone clarify this?
Probably just another way in which our culture tends to drift toward the militaristic.

[The_Veg]

Rendered honors is still honorable as long as the motivation is sincere.
Exactly. I personally will stand for the anthem, but if someone chooses not to, that is their freedom. Freedom is the operative word here. Period.

[RandallIsland]

In Navy cannot render hand salute unless covered - complete uniform necessary. Covers are removed immediately upon entering a building so no saluting inside buildings unless you are at colors.

True gentlemen respect traditions, ceremony and protocols, so much so, I believe they are are even more keenly observant when amidst foreign ones. I'm sure the honor is all mine to understand the intricacies of customs I never knew existed.
Thanks Paul.

Flag protocol . . . salute protocol . . . was established for a purpose. Why change it?

I'm going to continue to put my hand over my heart.

I've never worn a service uniform, no doubt never will I, so God be with you who care to fight or have fought for my freedom to be kissing Ladies when everyone else is staring up into the sky. When my hand is over their heart, I'll be thanking you, from the bottom of mine.
Otherwise, mine is covered, out of gratitude for not having to kill someone in that day. And praying for all those who have to live with the tragedy of war for the rest of their life.

[Pat Carol]

Proper salute with cover is just at the curvature of the hat brim right hand with finger tip touching. Your hand should also be slanted and not showing the palm of your hand.
I strongly feel that all veterans should salute when the National Anthem is played at an event. I also feel that Military Veterans deserve to be honored more. There are more Hollywood types that get honors for passing gas.
Every time a famous person passes away, someone always has to make a coin, write a song. Look at the waste of time spent on that Anna Nicole Smith. She was nothing good for society. She never served her country. She was nothing but an ugly boozin' drug addict.
We have men and women dying everyday for our country. The surviving family members get taxed 250k life insurance. It is not that hard to honor your flag and country. Sure a majority of us do not agree with the direction of our country but, we live in the greatest country in the world.

PC

[Richr8]

Nice perk for the Vets. I alway's felt dishonored by not being able to salute once I left the military. Great news. Now, I guess it just has to make it through congress and be signed into law. How long should that take?

[Brownie]

Nice thread, great posts!!!!!:usa

Shep Brown, USMC Retired

[Motor31]

Probably just another way in which our culture tends to drift toward the militaristic.


Why are you so afraid of the military? I don't agree with your premise that the country is heading that way at all.

[RandallIsland]

Probably just another way in which our culture tends to drift toward the militaristic.Why are you so afraid of the military? I don't agree with your premise that the country is heading that way at all.

Motor, you're joking ... right?
We're past the brink of the breach of our constitutional rights with the Patriot Act.
Everyone is suspect so everyone waves a flag and hopes they don't get singled out. We're exporting our American propaganda of international corporate sanitary happiness to the other 2nd world nations while the rest of the 1st world just watches us desecrate the 3rd for all their resources to maximize profits for the wealth-growing yet group-size shrinking echelons of highly mobile and multi-national elites.
Remember? Just like Germany.
Except our rape and torture happens in the Philippines and Cuba, like old Poland, where no one has the human rights violations quite so in-their-face.
The 'Stans and Russia, and this is just one example, are blatantly exporting women for prostitution (through Turkey alone at a rate so corruptly fast as to not be measured accurately) to service (any) soldiers overseas. Just like Japan did fighting China, yet then in Korea mostly, during WWII.

But really, it's not bad at all, is it?
I mean, our economy is stable as a rock, we have oodles of natural resources ...water, oil ... The Real Criminals Are Already Caught: 2nd Paragraph on the page, and yes, China is approx. 5x our size BTW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_prison_population) so everything is going to work out just dandy and fine as long as everyone stays happy and waves their little flag.

$.02 :violin Just consider it practice for school in a week

[Motor31]

Randall,

First off please specify which "we" you are talking about. Please do not include me in your paranoia and concerns about suspects.

Secondly I don't believe I addressed the question to you, nor do I believe the scope of it really delves all that far as into Poland et al.

[RandallIsland]

Randall,

First off please specify which "we" you are talking about. Please do not include me in your paranoia and concerns about suspects.

Secondly I don't believe I addressed the question to you, nor do I believe the scope of it really delves all that far as into Poland et al.

My bad! :wave

[The_Veg]

Why are you so afraid of the military?
Did I say that I was? Would you like me to be?