Water pump seal

[n1hnr941]

I am changing the water pump seal on my 96 K1100rs. Working with the instructions on the Internet BMW rider site I am seeing something different then the instructions. The tech article talks about "blue goo" but the new seal I have looks like it has a built in blue seal on the outside and a built in white seal on the inside where the shaft is. Am I suppose install this seal wet with blue goo or are these built in seals all there is? Also my seal didn't come with the plastic cover that is removed after installation. It is a part direct from BMW and is the proper part number. Time to update the article again?:bikes

[jdiaz]

You need to use the newer article by Don Forsman, if your seal looks like the one in this pic.

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild2/rebuild-new-seals1.jpg

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild2.shtml

[n1hnr941]

yep, that is the seal I am using and even mine looks different. The blue band around the outside is half the width and looks to extend further from the surface as if a half of a rubber o-ring was affixed to the surface. I got it in the freezer at the moment and I am going to heat up the housing to help with the install. Still not sure if blu-goo is suppose to be used also?

[jdiaz]

yep, that is the seal I am using and even mine looks different. The blue band around the outside is half the width and looks to extend further from the surface as if a half of a rubber o-ring was affixed to the surface. I got it in the freezer at the moment and I am going to heat up the housing to help with the install. Still not sure if blu-goo is suppose to be used also?

I don't think you need to add any extra stuff....the blu-goo that is on there should suffice.

Can I trouble you to take some pics of the new seal and how it fits into the housing while you are reassembling? I'll huddle with the other guys and figure out if we need to change or add to the existing procedures.

Send the pics to jondiaz_34@mac.com. Thank you.

[n1hnr941]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l59/n1hnr94/DSC00002.jpg picture on it's way. I did not remove anything from the seal i.e. plastic install device. Basically going in the same way.

[n1hnr941]

I just heard on the KOG site that with the new seal I have to change the spacer under the impeller. I guess it is thinner. Another change to the procedure or a note?:confused:

[jdiaz]

We will have to add an addendum to the existing piece.

Please send me the part numbers for the latest seal and spacer piece. Maybe we can make a simple matrix showing which parts need to be combined.

[n1hnr941]

Ok. I froze the hell out of the seal and heated the housing to about 140-150 degrees. This made it a little easier to put in but was still a tight fit. I am going to have to order the new spacer to find out if it is the same size, smaller or what. It seems to be a nice fit. The seal has a spring in it and the spacer compresses the seal a slight bit so I think that is the design. But to be sure I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new spacer. I don't know what the old spacer part number is. If someone has both on hand maybe we can get some measurements. Stand by on the new part numbers, I've got to dig through my paperwork.

[wmubrown]

Ok. I froze the hell out of the seal and heated the housing to about 140-150 degrees. This made it a little easier to put in but was still a tight fit. I am going to have to order the new spacer to find out if it is the same size, smaller or what. It seems to be a nice fit. The seal has a spring in it and the spacer compresses the seal a slight bit so I think that is the design. But to be sure I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new spacer. I don't know what the old spacer part number is. If someone has both on hand maybe we can get some measurements. Stand by on the new part numbers, I've got to dig through my paperwork.

Should be no need to do the freezing and heating... I drove mine in place with a large socket. It IS a tight fit. You WILL need a new, shorter, spacer. I'll see if I still have the p/n for the new spacer.

[n1hnr941]

I make it a habit to freeze and heat when working with seals and bushings if I can. There was too many unknown factors to me to proceed any other way. I tried the other way first and I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling:hungover .

[wmubrown]

I make it a habit to freeze and heat when working with seals and bushings if I can. There was too many unknown factors to me to proceed any other way. I tried the other way first and I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling:hungover .

No harm in the freezing part... I grow concerned with the heating part, especially when there is a seal (rubber or not) involved.

[n1hnr941]

That is why I went to only 140-150 degrees. The engine is certainly hotter then that so the oil seal could handle that. :thumb

[AntonLargiader]

If you have a pump with the older rubber/carbon seal, even if it came with a stamped impeller, you have a 14mm spacer and need to buy the 9mm spacer in order to fit the new slipring seal with the visible spring.

[n1hnr941]

This seal must have been changed before. I measured the spacer and it is just a tad over 9mm.:)

[AntonLargiader]

Great! This is certainly a question mark for anyone needing to replace the seals on a bike without a service history, so I thought I'd post the numbers. I've replaced two in the last two weeks. Most people should simply order the spacer along with the seals.

[n1hnr941]

Thanks for the info:brad . I didn't realize they need to be changed together. It even says it in the fiche. Guess I better learn to read. Everyone should make a note of this or add it to the water pump instruction.

[wmubrown]

I have the old one sitting here, and it is 13.85mm - so 9mm should be the correct new spacer. The part numbers for a rebuild are:

Shaft seal: 11 41 1 741 870
Spacer: 11 51 1 464 902
Oil seal: 11 41 1 460 329

At least, that's what I used and everything is working fine :)

[n1hnr941]

Mr. Diaz has discussed addmending the water pump repair instructions so hopefully he is catching this. Thanks for the info. Now I got that warm fuzzy feeling:hungover

[AntonLargiader]

I'll be replacing seals on a pump today so I can send him some pictures.

[wmubrown]

Mr. Diaz has discussed addmending the water pump repair instructions so hopefully he is catching this. Thanks for the info. Now I got that warm fuzzy feeling:hungover

His original procedure is here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild.shtml

The update for the new parts is here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild2.shtml

[jdiaz]

His original procedure is here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild.shtml

The update for the new parts is here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild2.shtml

Thanks John. We'll have to update the rebuild2 document at some point, if at least to add the info about the different spacers.