I Need Quick Help!

[downhillhunter]

My wife has her '94 K75RT at the BMW RA Rally in Asheville, NC, right now.

I'm in Minneapolis.

She says the K75 does not want to idle.

She can over-ride this, by turning the "choke" lever all the way on while idling and then turning the lever off when getting above idle.

She says that when she gets into the mountains, the bike runs fine.

Sounds like it's running lean to me.

Any other ideas?

What can I suggest she do, short of finding a dealer, to help her fix this problem?

She's not mechanically helpless, but like all of us, she does have her mechanical limits.

Anyone have any good ideas?



Thanks,


Downhill Hunter

[jdiaz]

Don Eilenberger should be at the rally today. Sounds like a big 'ol air leak, either from the intake tube between the airbox and the intake plenum, or the emissions tube on the back of the plenum.

[downhillhunter]

Great!

I'm not sure if she can locate him...but she's trying.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Downhill Hunter

[HFbmw]

Could the oil cap be loose or missing? fuel injection vacuum plugs fell off? Black rubber caps on each fuel injector..

tim lindstrom
91 kbike

[PGlaves]

Oil cap
Oil Sight Glass
Crankcase Vent Hose - short, back of engine, right side

[deilenberger]

I met your charming wife today.. and took a listen to the bike.

It's idling - and not terribly - at 900RPM. The chap at the Metzler booth turned up the idle a bit. My thought (and that of Joe Katz who helped out at the K forum) was the high-altitude plug was in (since the bike is new to her..) Unfortunately - it wasn't. Since it's an RT - it wasn't easy to see all the intake plumbing - but there was nothing obvious, and she has good fuel flow looking in the tank.. I had forgotten to check the Z shaped crankcase hose - it's certainly a possibility. If that's what it is - the bike shouldn't have any problem making it home - and I heard nothing that sounds as if it was in imminent danger of failing on the road. The oil sight glass was in place. In talking with her - it sounds as if aside from the idling - it has power once it gets going, so I doubt if there is a massive intake leak, and it rev'd fine with no hesitation.

Small edit: She was concerned a bit with the usual K rattle on the right side of the engine - which I only heard at startup - as soon as the idle settled down it was fine. I had my head down on that side of the engine to listen to it - and while I didn't think to look at the oil fill cap - if it had been missing, I believe even as deaf as I am - I would have noticed the noise (and the oil mist rising from it if it was missing.)

Sorry I couldn't be of more help - but the dust bowl parking lot wasn't an ideal place for troubleshooting it..

Please keep us informed on when she gets home.

[downhillhunter]

Hi Don !


Thank you so much for sharing your busy time with my bride!

Your advice, opinion and reassurance is greatly appreciated by both of us.

You, everyone at the Rally and here on the Forum has been so helpful and kind to us so many times, that it is a little difficult to express our full gratitude.

I look forward to the opportunity to meet each of you at West Bend or wherever our paths cross.

From the bottom of my heart I extend my deepest and hardiest thanks!

I will update this thread upon her return home.

As an aside...my wife (while on her bike) was struck from behind by a car two weeks before the rally. She was stopped for a school bus (with flashing red lights and all) but the dipstick driving the car failed to stop... and hit her.

She was brused and shaken up (thank God for heavy duty protective gear) but okay. Her K75RT was totaled.

To my wife's credit, she started shopping for another K75 two days later, found one in Ohio, and after the road trip to pick it up, left the next week end for Asheville.

Her strength and love of motorcycling is my inspiration!



Thanks, again


Downhill Hunter

[downhillhunter]

Thanks to all of you who helped her along the way. We are very grateful!

Her K75 didn't fair so well. About 150 miles from home it developed a severe engine rattle and oil leak.

It was dark when I picked her up, so we just loaded the bike on the trailer and didn't investigate very much.

Oil seems to be coming from under the suspected altenator. I didn't start it to listen to the rattle, but she described it as being similar to hitting the starter after the engine is already running.

Pass the wrenches, please!

Thanks again, for all of your help and ideas!


Downhill Hunter

[deilenberger]

Thanks to all of you who helped her along the way. We are very grateful!

Her K75 didn't fair so well. About 150 miles from home it developed a severe engine rattle and oil leak.

It was dark when I picked her up, so we just loaded the bike on the trailer and didn't investigate very much.

Oil seems to be coming from under the suspected altenator. I didn't start it to listen to the rattle, but she described it as being similar to hitting the starter after the engine is already running.

Pass the wrenches, please!

Thanks again, for all of your help and ideas!


Downhill Hunter

Let us know what you find.. at the K tech session I mentioned the propensity for the K75 engines to eat the alternator cush drive it the rubber drive parts aren't replaced every 3-4 years. That still shouldn't cause a leak - but it can cause a rattle that can be pretty severe and when they really go bad - it can cause a "brrrrrzzzzzzz" sorta noise.

[downhillhunter]

I'm guessing that the noise is related to the alternator in some fashion. But at this point it's just a guess.

The Oil leak has me mystified. I'll just have to start taking off fairing parts until I can trace the origin of the leak.

Is the alternator belt driven or is it shaft driven. Either way, there has to be a shaft that comes out of the engine and I'm wondering if it could be a seal that's gone bad?

I'll get at it later this week and keep you posted on what I find.

Thanks again,


Downhill Hunter

[deilenberger]

I'm guessing that the noise is related to the alternator in some fashion. But at this point it's just a guess.

The Oil leak has me mystified. I'll just have to start taking off fairing parts until I can trace the origin of the leak.

Is the alternator belt driven or is it shaft driven. Either way, there has to be a shaft that comes out of the engine and I'm wondering if it could be a seal that's gone bad?

I'll get at it later this week and keep you posted on what I find.

Thanks again,


Downhill HunterShaft driven through a two piece cush-drive. There is a seal on the output shaft that drives it... but I've never heard of one being a gusher.. (more weepers..)

[jpdetweiler]

If the noise problem turns out to be due to the alternator, go to a thread that I started in the end of April called "Engine clatter". Mr. Diaz got me going in the right direction and I was able to fix my problem which turned out to be a sheared bolt that holds the alternator drive dog to the engine alternator drive shaft. I believe a more common problem is broken vanes in the alternator drive cup.

[downhillhunter]

I've pulled the alternator and here's what we've found:


The bolt holding the engine side of the cushion drive was loose and the drive
was loose on the spline. The splines appear to still be okay.

The seal and the bearing were completely destroyed. Broken into many little pieces.

We cleaned it up and took out all the loose pieces. The snap ring had galled into the groove, but I was able to remove it, but it was ruined in the process.

The outer bearing housing remains stuck in the bell housing. I am going to look for a tiny seal puller or gear puller, hoping that I can pull the bearing housing out.

Does anyone have any good ideas on how to remove the bearing housing?

The alternator spins free, but I'll have it checked.

It appears that I'll need the drive cushions, snap ring, seal and bearing. Assuming
that I can get the bearing housing out.

Any Advice?


Thanks,


Downhill Hunter

[downhillhunter]

If you've got any ideas about removing that old bearing housing...I'd love to hear 'em!

Thanks,

Downhill Hunter

[downhillhunter]

No one has any ideas on getting out this outer bearing housing?

I need ideas, before I get out the 'blue wrench'!!


Thanks,


Downhill Hunter

[cjack]

No one has any ideas on getting out this outer bearing housing?

I need ideas, before I get out the 'blue wrench'!!
Thanks,
Downhill Hunter

It comes out from the inside of the intermediate housing, right?

[deilenberger]

No one has any ideas on getting out this outer bearing housing?

I need ideas, before I get out the 'blue wrench'!!


Thanks,


Downhill HunterNever done one - but I believe the intermediate housing may have to come off to do it.. I'll check with a friend who has done it and try to let you know. If Jon Diaz picks up on the thread - he'd know since he's rebuilt his K75 engine from the crankshaft up..

[downhillhunter]

Right. It's in the bell housing between the engine and the Trans.

Since the bearing is broken and completely gone, all that's left in the bell housing is the outside ring of the bearing.

Since it's 'back' sits against a shoulder in the bell housing, I don't see any way to even drive it out from the back, with the bell housing removed from the engine.

To make matters worse, it appears to be galled into the bell housing.

Last night I tried a seal puller (reversed claws like on a gear puller). I bought it at Harbor tools. It's made in China and it didn't work.

Tonight I'm stopping by NAPA to look at their "blind hole" bearing puller. I think it's similar to the one I purchased, hopefully of better quality. I can rent it, if I think it will work.


I also thought that maybe I could carefully cut it with a cut off wheel on my Dremel. but there's not enough room to get the wheel in place. I also tried to
cut a couple of grooves into the bearing to better latch the jaws of the puller.

I tried my Dremel tool with a small round Metal cutting tool, but the bearing is harder than the cutting tool.

I had to destroy the snap ring, in order to get it out. There's a small groove in the bearing housing for the ball bearings, but it's rounded and not very deep.

Of course, the tighter I set the jaws of the puller to get a decent purchase, the more I expand the bearing housing and I assume, the tighter I make it in the housing. Sort of a catch 22.

Since the bell housing is Alum. I am afraid to use even the most modest amount of heat.

Do you suppose that a heat gun would provide enough heat to make a difference without risking the alum.?

So if you have any ideas, I would be delighted to entertain them!

Does anyone have a class 'A' explosives license?

Thanks,


Downhill Hunter

[cjack]

Right. It's in the bell housing between the engine and the Trans.

Since the bearing is broken and completely gone, all that's left in the bell housing is the outside ring of the bearing.

Since it's 'back' sits against a shoulder in the bell housing, I don't see any way to even drive it out from the back, with the bell housing removed from the engine.

To make matters worse, it appears to be galled into the bell housing.

Last night I tried a seal puller (reversed claws like on a gear puller). I bought it at Harbor tools. It's made in China and it didn't work.

Tonight I'm stopping by NAPA to look at their "blind hole" bearing puller. I think it's similar to the one I purchased, hopefully of better quality. I can rent it, if I think it will work.


I also thought that maybe I could carefully cut it with a cut off wheel on my Dremel. but there's not enough room to get the wheel in place. I also tried to
cut a couple of grooves into the bearing to better latch the jaws of the puller.

I tried my Dremel tool with a small round Metal cutting tool, but the bearing is harder than the cutting tool.

I had to destroy the snap ring, in order to get it out. There's a small groove in the bearing housing for the ball bearings, but it's rounded and not very deep.

Of course, the tighter I set the jaws of the puller to get a decent purchase, the more I expand the bearing housing and I assume, the tighter I make it in the housing. Sort of a catch 22.

Since the bell housing is Alum. I am afraid to use even the most modest amount of heat.

Do you suppose that a heat gun would provide enough heat to make a difference without risking the alum.?

So if you have any ideas, I would be delighted to entertain them!

Does anyone have a class 'A' explosives license?

Thanks,


Downhill Hunter

So the shoulder on the bell housing is at the engine side. And you have to pull it out from the rear wheel side with the bell housing still in place. Is that it?
Yes you should be using lots of heat. Roughly enough to boil spit. If you don't, you take a chance of cleaning out some aluminum and the new bearing won't be a press fit. Always heat on I think all these bearing removals on BMWs.
One trick I saw in one of the airhead aftermarket repair books for the airhead fork bearing races is to weld a welding rod to both sides of the race and pull it out. I don't think I would do that with the bell housing still attached to the bike. Hard on the computers.

[deilenberger]

This is a case where a good quality internal expanding bearing puller might just save the cost of buying a new intermediate housing.

http://www.reliabilitydirectstore.com/SKF-TMSC-series-Internal-bearing-puller-kits-p/skf-tmsc%2030-60.htm

And as Chuck suggested - heat will be your friend here. Unless you have a really good professional heat gun - your best bet is use of a propane plumbers torch, which you keep moving so you don't burn the aluminum. As Chuck suggested - spit boiling is a good temperature.

As he also mentioned - an old trick is welding a length of rod across the bearing race. If done right - it not only provides a grip to pull from, it tends to shrink the bearing shell as the welds cool.

[downhillhunter]

Right...it needs to be pulled toward the rear wheel.

Thanks for the heat tip...I wasn't too sure about that. I have a heat gun that will get it to boiling without much trouble. I also have butane and propane torches.
I'll start with the head gun and work my way up if I need to.

It turns out that the guy at NAPA had no clue what I was talking about...all they had were large gear pullers. Local Sears didn't stock their blind hole puller either.

I'm going to try the heat with my Chinese puller, over the week end. If that doesn't work, I'll order a good puller on line and try that.

If that doesn't work...last resort will be tacking welding rods to it. I may even try to tack that cheap Chinese puller to it.

Next step would be to remove the bell housing, put it in the freezer over night and then heat up the alum. I'm hoping my problem is solved long before I have to do that!

Keep those ideas and tips coming guys, I can use all the help I can get!

Thanks,

Downhill Hunter

PS Thank god she has a 650GS for a back up. Pray that it doesn't lay down before I get her K75 back on the road!!

[deilenberger]

DownHillHunter..

STOP what you're doing. I finally found confirmation in the K11 BMW manual - that the bearing you're pulling on doesn't come out that way - it is removed from the inside, which requires removing the intermediate housing.

Here are the factory directions (which show clearly the direction
they're removing the bearing..):

Stripping down and re-assembling
intermediate flange

Removing the driver bearing
• Bearing plate (1)
• Cup spring (2)
• Pull out ball bearing (3) with counter-support,
BMW No. 00 8 572, and internal puller 21/2,
BMW No. 00 8 571.
• Seeger circlip (4)
Installing driver bearing
• Heat the intermediate flange at the bearing seat
to 120 °C.
• Press the ball bearing in as far as the Seeger circlip.
4 3 2 1
j 120
LT110120
• Insert the cup spring with the larger diameter facing
the bearing.
• Install the bearing plate with the large cutout facing
upwards.
• The retaining screws must be clean and freeIf you look on REALOEM you'll see the same basic illustration BMW used for this page in the manual.

I'd suggest strongly - if you don't have a manual - get one. If the one you have is unclear on this - either seek a professional, or find a better manual.

[downhillhunter]

Don,

I think you're right!

When I saw the snap ring...I thought it held the bearing in place.

I have a Haynes and was using it, to check it out, but failed to notice the exploded view was from the inside and not toward the back of the bike.

That would explain a lot!!!!!!!!

Most of which makes my face red with embarrassment!! Don't tell my boss!

What do I have to do to take off the bell/intermediate housing??

That looks fairly major.

As I said earlier, her previous K75RT was totaled and the settlement with the insurance company ended with us keeping her old bike.

It's a '92 with 58k miles. Her 'new' RT is a '94 with 96K.

We were thinking about combining the two bikes.

Her '94 has an electric windshield, radio, CB and other gadgets that she really likes.

It Minnesota the Frame VIN and Engine #s are registered with the state. So it would take some fancy paper work to switch engines, but I'm wondering if that would still be easier than switching the fairings?

What are your thoughts?


Thanks for the heads up! I'm now glad that Chinese puller didn't work!


Downhill Hunter

[cjack]

Don,

I think you're right!

When I saw the snap ring...I thought it held the bearing in place.

I have a Haynes and was using it, to check it out, but failed to notice the exploded view was from the inside and not toward the back of the bike.

That would explain a lot!!!!!!!!

Downhill Hunter


Oh good. I raised that question twice. The ETK fiche looked like that was the case. Defining the problem is 90% of the solution.

[deilenberger]

What do I have to do to take off the bell/intermediate housing??

That looks fairly major.
It's pretty major - besides involving R&R of the tranny, it also involves complete disassembly of the clutch, and then R&R of the intermediate housing. Reassembly would require a number of new seals and sealing the joint between the two. It's not a trivial job.

As I said earlier, her previous K75RT was totaled and the settlement with the insurance company ended with us keeping her old bike.

It's a '92 with 58k miles. Her 'new' RT is a '94 with 96K.

We were thinking about combining the two bikes.

Her '94 has an electric windshield, radio, CB and other gadgets that she really likes.

It Minnesota the Frame VIN and Engine #s are registered with the state. So it would take some fancy paper work to switch engines, but I'm wondering if that would still be easier than switching the fairings?

What are your thoughts?

Downhill HunterIf you have a known good engine/tranny from the old bike - that's the easiest way to solve the problem. A swap could be done in a day if you do it as a unit (you basically lift the bike off the current engine/tranny and plop it on the new one.) Certainly the lower mile engine/trans/clutch seems more desireable.

Dunno what hassle the paperwork might be - but IMHO - it sounds like it would be worth it, especially if you've never ventured into clutch disassembly and stuff like that.

Or - you could try to find a good intermediate housing - with good bearings/seals in it - and go that route. It all depends on your mechanical skill level and ambition.

The running parts - most of them - for the K bike are SO reliable - that replacement with entire used units (engine, transmission) is usually more economical than repairing the old units. The only exception are the ABS brain, and the rear-drive (spline primarily being the problem..) and driveshaft.

[Kayseventyfive]

What would be a good way to prevent this from happening on other bikes?

[deilenberger]

What would be a good way to prevent this from happening on other bikes?Keep an eye on the cush-drive rubber bits.. but this failure is basically a fluke.. first time I've heard of this bearing going bad..

[downhillhunter]

Thanks for the info!

So you're thinking it's easier to switch out the engine, and drive train...than it is to switch the fairing and what not? (excluding the paper work situation)

I don't know why this one went bad. We just picked up the bike less than a week before she left for Asheville. Kind of a rush-rush deal. If we would have had a little more time to ride it, the cushions probably would have been replaced before she left.

It was a little noisy before she left and apparently it got a little worse on the ride down. But the noise was a concern, but not a huge red flag.

It's kind of the "chicken before the egg" situation, but when we pulled the alternator, the bolt holding the driving hub was completely loose from the spline shaft.

So did the lack of cushions take out the bearing and the loss of the bearing loosen the hub bolt?? Or was it the other way around.

The cushions were about 66% gone, but we could see where a lot of the cushions had just recently been ground up.

I think that for some reason the bolt came loose first and caused the entire problem. I just don't think the cushions caused this problem.

And pounding down the highway she just didn't hear it grinding away until she stopped for gas.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

My wife's checking with the MN DPS to see what kind of a paper chase it is to switch engines.

Thanks, Again!

I'll keep you posted on my soap opera.

Downhill Hunter

[jpdetweiler]

And I thought I had problems with a broken bolt! I hope this thing works out which ever way you go. My wife and I just finished a trip down the outer banks to Charleston, SC, across to Birmingham, AL then up the Blue Ridge Parkway, stopping in Ashville, NC, back to PA. The trip was taken on an R110RS and we had no problem. The K75 stayed at home.

[AntonLargiader]

I would swap complete drivetrains, so you get the younger drivetrain on the better chassis. There must be a way to register a different engine number with the state.

Basically it goes like this:

Remove the tank and fairing.

Drain the coolant and remove the radiator.

Disconnect all drivetrain sensors. Gear switch, coolant, speedo sensor, timing sensor, foot brake switch, oil pressure, etc. The injectors, coil and filter housing stay connected because they are on a subharness that gets disconnected somewhere above the airbox.

Disconnect the wires to the starter and alternator.

Disconnect the control cables at the lower ends and tie them up to the frame.

Brake lines are a pain because part of the system is mounted to the drivetrain and part of it is mounted to the frame. You might be able to remove the front master cylinder and leave the system all with the drivetrain, not sure. I have opened the brake lines to do this, myself.

Support the front of the engine with a jack, remove the front wheel and forks, remove the rear shock.

When everything else is ready, remove the five frame bolts and lift the frame (with wiring harness, tail section, fork clamps, handlebars, etc.) from one drivetrain to the other. One person at each end of the frame. Be careful because you are almost certain to find something not disconnected. BTW this is a very good time to change the air filter. :)

Then reconnect everything.... this is a solid half-day project, and it takes two people. I've done it a few times.

[ormondotvos]

I believe most rental stores will have internal expanding clutch bearing removal slide hammers.

Try to have some idea of the size and condition of the internal lip you're trying to catch.

Heating the aluminum cases will make the high carbon steel bearing race looser, since aluminum/magnesium expand more than steel with heat.

You can also stick a frozen piece of steel inside the bearing to shrink it, since steel is a poor conductor of heat compared to aluminum.