New Member needs diagnostic help

[UnoRacing]

Greetings All,

:bikes

I've been a long time dirt rider (22 years) and off and on street rider (15 years). Since my knees and back are starting to ache (from many miles on the desert and motorcross track), I decided to hang up the drit bike helmet for a year to recover. Believe it or not taking a break really helps heal the joints.

Nevertheless, I decided to purchase my second BMW Motorcycle. My first was a 2003 BMW K1200 RS (sold, owned for 1.5 years, sold last year) and now, since my riding style has changed and my wife wants to go along I bought a 2002 BMW R1150RT.

I bought the bike for $6500 with 50,000 miles. I checked the service records at the local BMW dealer and all maintenance has been done in accordance with the maintenance schedule.

The bike is very clean (cosmetically and mechanically) with exception of two problems that occured while on a 300 mile ride this weekend.

First the clutch engages at the end of the out stroke. Seems that there is very, very little engagement before the bike begins to roll. With the current engagement, I almost have to ride the clutch to get a good start. I've found this very annoying because I like to use the clutch at lower speeds and I really don't like to ride (burn) the clutch when starting out in 1st gear.

Secondly, when at highway speed in 6th gear, and I fully throttle the bike, at RPMS above 4,500, (for passing of course) the bike drivetrain won't respond. The RPMs go up, quickly, but the drivetrain reacts much slower, if at all. Now if I slowly throttle the bike to the full position, the drivetrain works great. Don't have this probem in any other gear, just at higher speeds.

I've thought about what it could be and I'm thinking I need a new clutch, but I'm not sure.

Help is appreciated as the bike has a 30 day unconditional warranty from a dealership that I have a great relationship with.

Regards,

Jeff

8924

[Motor31]

You've got a slipping clutch. Whether it's due to wear, misadjustment or oil contamination is unclear at this point. If it came with a guarantee from the previous owner (dealer?) I'd take it back as swapping out the clutch won't be real inexpensive.

[cjack]

Greetings All,

:bikes

I've been a long time dirt rider (22 years) and off and on street rider (15 years). Since my knees and back are starting to ache (from many miles on the desert and motorcross track), I decided to hang up the drit bike helmet for a year to recover. Believe it or not taking a break really helps heal the joints.

Nevertheless, I decided to purchase my second BMW Motorcycle. My first was a 2003 BMW K1200 RS (sold, owned for 1.5 years, sold last year) and now, since my riding style has changed and my wife wants to go along I bought a 2002 BMW R1150RT.

I bought the bike for $6500 with 50,000 miles. I checked the service records at the local BMW dealer and all maintenance has been done in accordance with the maintenance schedule.

The bike is very clean (cosmetically and mechanically) with exception of two problems that occured while on a 300 mile ride this weekend.

First the clutch engages at the end of the out stroke. Seems that there is very, very little engagement before the bike begins to roll. With the current engagement, I almost have to ride the clutch to get a good start. I've found this very annoying because I like to use the clutch at lower speeds and I really don't like to ride (burn) the clutch when starting out in 1st gear.

Secondly, when at highway speed in 6th gear, and I fully throttle the bike, at RPMS above 4,500, (for passing of course) the bike drivetrain won't respond. The RPMs go up, quickly, but the drivetrain reacts much slower, if at all. Now if I slowly throttle the bike to the full position, the drivetrain works great. Don't have this probem in any other gear, just at higher speeds.

I've thought about what it could be and I'm thinking I need a new clutch, but I'm not sure.

Help is appreciated as the bike has a 30 day unconditional warranty from a dealership that I have a great relationship with.

Regards,

Jeff

8924


Slipping clutch. Maybe a leaking slave cyl as well which caused it.

[UnoRacing]

I thought the clutch was the problem, but I wasn't 100% sure. Any idea how much it would be to replace the clutch.

I'm thinking if it's major money the dealership might just discount the bike and let me be responsible for the clutch. I'm mechanically inclined, but have never worked on a BMW other than replacing the battery.

[JimMoore]

Any idea how much it would be to replace the clutch.

Lots. Like $1200-$1400. The parts alone are $300-$400. There are some smart folks who have done it here, at www.bmwst.com and at www.advrider.com. It is not a job for the faint of heart.

[JKERSH1]

Lots. Like $1200-$1400. The parts alone are $300-$400. There are some smart folks who have done it here, at www.bmwst.com and at www.advrider.com. It is not a job for the faint of heart.

On my K12LT it was closer to $2000 but I had all the seals and clutch slave master cylinder replaced too. Admittedly the K and R motors are completely different, but the big expense is getting to the clutch i.e. remove rear drive, drive shaft, transmission and those are pretty similar.

While you're in there doing the clutch, take the opportunity to replace engine and tranny seals, clutch slave master, etc. You won't want to go in again for a long time. My dealer also 'installed' a couple of weep holes--one in the slave, and another between the engine and tranny cases to let any future leaks drain out rather than contaminating the clutch.

[UnoRacing]

Thanks for all the responses! You guys are great. Off to the dealership for lunch to determine what the protocal will be. I'll keep you guys posted.

Regards,


Jeff

[UnoRacing]

Well I took the bike to the dealership I bought it from and sure enough it's the clutch that is going bad. The starter also is sticking on starting. Seems that there are more problems than its worth keeping. The delership (Honda) will make it right, but I'm afraid that there might be furture problems with the bike.

They'd like me to trade the bike in for a new one (Goldwing) that they will give me a great deal on. Not sure at this point, as I have to get the wifes approval.

[cjack]

Well I took the bike to the dealership I bought it from and sure enough it's the clutch that is going bad. The starter also is sticking on starting. Seems that there are more problems than its worth keeping. The delership (Honda) will make it right, but I'm afraid that there might be furture problems with the bike.

They'd like me to trade the bike in for a new one (Goldwing) that they will give me a great deal on. Not sure at this point, as I have to get the wifes approval.

The starter is a sort of problem I have heard of before. It is much like a car starter and easy to get to...however it will be off when they do the clutch.
A Goldwing is kind of like a two wheeled car. I guess that would be ok from the "It's new and warrantied" standpoint, but I would rather get a new K1200GT instead. The new four cyl transverse engine by BMW. We have the K1200S version of those and they are awsome. There have been no serious issues that I know of with these new 4 cyl offerings that I know of and I part time at a dealer.

[mtboulder]

Well I took the bike to the dealership I bought it from and sure enough it's the clutch that is going bad. The starter also is sticking on starting. Seems that there are more problems than its worth keeping. The delership (Honda) will make it right, but I'm afraid that there might be furture problems with the bike.

They'd like me to trade the bike in for a new one (Goldwing) that they will give me a great deal on. Not sure at this point, as I have to get the wifes approval.

The Starter problem is no big deal. You just need to clean it. There are procedures on how to do this yourself and it's straight forward and will take about 1 hr.

If you are mechanically inclined you can do the Clutch yourself also. It's a big job but it does not require special tools or special talent to do properly. It is an all day job but it's straight forward.

The engines on these bikes are very strong and have few problems. If it shifts smoothly and you like the bike (and the dealer takes care of the clutch and starter for you), you may want to keep it. My $.02

[UnoRacing]

Okay here's an update. I took it to the dealer I bought it from and they couldn't duplicate the clutch issue that I was having (slippage at higer RPMs). I'm thinking its becasue they didn't have enough ride time on it. Nevertheless, they did acknowldege that the bike does have a problem as the clutch engages at the end of the of the lever. I asked the head mechanic how to remedy it and he agreed that the clutch would have to be replaced.

They gave me two options; one to take back the bike of 100% of what I paid for it or two drive it home without any repairs.

I"m a little disappointed becasue I've been such a loyal customer of the dealership. I felt that they thought I was exaggerating about the problem. At this point I'm not sure what to do. IMHO, I got a good price on the bike, but its obviously going to cost moeny to fix it.

What would you guys do?

Also, I'm sure I could fix it myself as I'm a 3 of 5 mechanic in terms of abilities. I rebuilt this bad boy from the ground up. Put a 350 in it and an NV4500 transmission. Its a crazy FJ40.

8930

[UnoRacing]

8931

[UnoRacing]

8932

[UnoRacing]

What'cha think guys. Should I keep or should I give back to the dealership?

[UnoRacing]

What'cha think guys. Should I keep or should I give back to the dealership?

[cjack]

What'cha think guys. Should I keep or should I give back to the dealership?

While it is not beyond your abilities for sure, it seems that you might be better off getting a bike that doesn't need this kind of repair right off the line. It is not a good time of the year for this, most dealers are pretty slammed by now. There are lots of bikes out there. I think you can do better.

[Motor31]

It depends on how "married" you are to the bike. Frankly there are other ones out there for sale that are likely to be in better shape.

If it were me, I'd take it back but I also don't have the facilities to do a clutch replacement and related work. Once you get into it you may find there are other issues to deal with. It depends on how much your time and labor are worth and if you have local parts availability. If there is no local dealer in your area for parts. I'd definitely leave the deal as it will sit waiting on parts to be shipped.

[superstamper]

$6,500.00 for a 50,000 mile bike with problems doesn't seem like a good deal to me. I paid $6,200.00 for an 1100 GS with 14,000 miles and $6,250.00 for an 1100 RT with 19,000 miles. Both are problem free with good tires and a few accesories. I'd keep looking. Theres a reason the previous owner traded it in instead of selling it outright.

[BubbaZanetti]

price and milage seem a bit off, esp with this issue. if you don't want to deal with the hassle of returning it and getting another bike and like wrenching, it won't be a huge deal. it's a long repair, you really have to remove most of the back end of the bike. once inside you will probably find out that a fluid leak is the cause of all your troulbe. this may be rear main seal (engine oil), transmission input seal (gear oil) or leaking slave cylinder (brake fluid). this could potentially account for your starter issues too, if there is enough oil which has contamined what should be a dry area of the bike between the engine and the transmission, it may also be causing problems for your starter.

i guess it depends on just how much you want to tackle. i would say i'm also a 3 out of 5 mechanic and i did this job (rear main seal for me) without too much difficulty, just make sure you keep track of all your fasteners!

[UnoRacing]

Alright. I decided to get my money back on the RT. Since, I've found two RTs a 2005 RT with all the goodies for $16,000 with 5900 miles. This thing is a cream puff.

I've also found a 2002 RT in the burgendy color at for $9,000 with only 5,600 miles. Bike is loaded without the rear trunk and cruise control.

Both were BMW dealer trades. I'm leiing toward the 02 just becasue of the cost factor, but I not a raving fan of the color.

What do you all think.

[Motor31]

That 02 is also priced a bit high. Last January I got an 04 RT with 5,000 miles on the clock a trunk and a new tank bag for $10K.

[UnoRacing]

I guess I continue to do my research. I suppose I can get one on ebay or another state, but I'm worried about not being able to see the bike before I buy it. The least he'll take is $9000 for the 2002.

[Motor31]

Check the flea market here on the board and also look over Craig's list for your state. Yo might find one closer than you thijnk at a decent price. I am very leery about e-bay and buying long distance. There are folks here who might be able to go to the dealer that is listing on e-bay and look the bike over for you if you ask.

Don't get discouraged. It took me almost 6 months of looking, real seriously in the last 2 to get mine. I almost bought a Concours but the ergo's weren't good enough. The bike had me leaning forward and with my back I can't handle that. It would have saved me a considerable amount of money if it did fit.

[CTHalk]

Take a deep breath, go in calmly. You want to find a bike that 'talks' to you...and is a fair deal. I'd avoid a 'fixer-upper' at the beginning of the season. You never know what may be inside once you (or the dealer) gets into it. Don't settle for a less than the perfect bike for you because you are in a rush. You may not be so happy with an impulse purchase later. Good luck hunting!

[UnoRacing]

Hey Guys,

Well the BMW dealer I'm working with found a 2004 Silver RT with only 1,700 miles on it. Yes, only 1700. This thing was owned by an individual who developed health problems. The bike sat in his garage and he decided to trade for a BMW car.

The dealership is asking $12,000 for it. Seems like a lot of Jack, but its essentailly a new bike. Plus the annual service was just done...

What do you guys think?

[rvbeemer]

If you like the bike, fix it yourself. Make them pay for the parts. You will be much more familier with the bike.

[MEWAYBRIGHT]

Hey Guys,

Well the BMW dealer I'm working with found a 2004 Silver RT with only 1,700 miles on it. Yes, only 1700. This thing was owned by an individual who developed health problems. The bike sat in his garage and he decided to trade for a BMW car.

The dealership is asking $12,000 for it. Seems like a lot of Jack, but its essentailly a new bike. Plus the annual service was just done...

What do you guys think?

Take it for a ride, kick the tires... then go home and sleep on it. If you still think it is a good fit for you then buy it. Don't always worry so much about the deal.. it is more about what it's worth to you. Maybe you can get the dealer to throw in some upcoming service work to sweeten the deal if you feel it to be a bit pricey. How much time is left on the original warranty? Is it transferable? Does it make you smile when you ride it? In the end... it's your ride.