F800 Models

[Boxer]

Some time ago I vaguely remember seeing info somewhere that eventually there would be a F800 RT version available in the US. Was that my imagination? I can't find anything related to other models now except the S and ST I believe.

Can anyone point me in a direction for info, please.:idea

[BiffsR]

Boxer,
I sat on the ST today, and the ergos are similar to the R1150R, but no one said anything about a F800RT.

[AZ-J]

Some time ago I vaguely remember seeing info somewhere that eventually there would be a F800 RT version available in the US. Was that my imagination? I can't find anything related to other models now except the S and ST I believe.

Can anyone point me in a direction for info, please.:idea

I own and have been riding an F800S because the ergos fit my 5'11.5" frame better than an ST, about a month now. Love it and every feature of it, including its super lightness and low COG that allows me flick it, using just my legs (arms just on the bars to brace and control). Makes it great for me after not being ride much the last five years before due to a major left shoulder issue requiring two surgeries and a year plus in therapy.

What would be the difference between an ST and an RT? I ask because there are many farkles available for both the S and the ST that could make one an RT if I knew what you were hunting for in an RT model.

BTW, there are a couple of threads in the G & F Bikes subforum on the F800 you might want to look at including a test ride review of the ST by KBasa.

Tweety1:wave

[Boxer]

I found an article right after posting the above and I guess the ST is the one I was thinking about. Also the GS that is supposed to come out later may be a good alternative to the S. I like the whole package, but the ergos/seating position looks too leaned over forward to me. Maybe I can find one soon to sit on or demo.

[32232]

The president of BMW motorcycles said there will be a GS (rumoured to arrive in August) and an R version. There has been no mention of an RT.

[riders]

I traded a 2004 R1150R for a 800S Tuesday and put 699 miles on it since then. I think it is quite comfortable; I rode 142, 149, and 158 miles without stopping. I am 5' 10'' tall and 175 pounds. Prior to the R1150R I had a R1100RT and before that a R1100RS and I like this bike the best. The bars just don't have me leaned that much forward and it is just Plain Fun to Ride!!!

[AZ-J]

I traded a 2004 R1150R for a 800S Tuesday and put 699 miles on it since then. I think it is quite comfortable; I rode 142, 149, and 158 miles without stopping. I am 5' 10'' tall and 175 pounds. Prior to the R1150R I had a R1100RT and before that a R1100RS and I like this bike the best. The bars just don't have me leaned that much forward and it is just Plain Fun to Ride!!!

Hey, I am just a little bit taller (just over 5'11") and 170 pounds. I don't lean at all unless I want to on my S. Mine is the Sunset Yellow S, what color is yours?

Go in to the G&F Bike section and post a pic or 2 (or more!) under the new Sticky. I just posted 3 of mine.

Have you had yours in for the 600 mile service yet? Mine was in today, and they told me my break-in was perfect as there were no shards in the oil. I hope yours goes as well.

Tweety1

[paulsibek]

BMW hard bags available for the "S" version?

The F800 seems like an ideal bike for me and I am thinking about replacing my K75 commuter with an ST even though I like the looks of the "S" better.

I think its about the same weight as my /5 with 85hp and great brakes.

How do you like the new ABS???

[Visian]

hi all... thought this thread would get better visibility in this forum.

ian

[knary]

I really really hope they get it right with the GS version. :eat

Right = perfect for me and my needs - an impossible blend of off road ability and long distance high speed touring. Gimme a KTM 640 Adventure wannabe with the road comfort of a beemer with more than one cylinder (I'm not a thumper fan).

[AZ-J]

BMW hard bags available for the "S" version?

The F800 seems like an ideal bike for me and I am thinking about replacing my K75 commuter with an ST even though I like the looks of the "S" better.

I think its about the same weight as my /5 with 85hp and great brakes.

How do you like the new ABS???

The luggage on the ST will fit on the S BUT you have to buy the rear rack and the luggage brackets too. That "extra" and mostly to be able to remove them w/o a trace is why I bought RKA smaller sport saddlebags (33 liters) and they are about the same volume as the BMW bags.

For me and my size the S was a much better choice, since I sit on the ST as if it was a cruiser, leaning back. The new ABS is right off the K series bikes, and I love its ability and feel (and this is my second ABS bike), but for outright performance, I suggest you ask one of them, since I only have mine 42 days and my first ABS bike was a Suzuki Bandit.

I'll also say this: you used the absolutely most appropriate name to describe the F800 whether the S or the ST - ideal. Just had my 600 mile service. The report was "excellent break-in-there were no shards in the oil". The first 200 miles at 4K and under hurt a bit on the highway (68mph max) but after that and up to 5 and 6K rpm-watch out. Then, comes the 400 mile end of break-in and the last 200 miles until the service are sweeeeeeeet with that 8.5K rpm range.

All I can say to anyone is you can't know this bike 'til you ride it. I even thought it was slow on my test ride, coming off the Bandit. Now broken-in, its a WOW!

See this review:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2006/04/08/mfbike08.xml

Tweety1

[larrydk]

Tweety1 wrote:

I own and have been riding an F800S because the ergos fit my 5'11.5" frame better than an ST, about a month now. Love it and every feature of it, including its super lightness and low COG that allows me flick it, using just my legs (arms just on the bars to brace and control). Makes it great for me after not being ride much the last five years before due to a major left shoulder issue requiring two surgeries and a year plus in therapy.

Motorcycles can only steer by countersteer and turning the bars. It has been proven over and over that you cannot steer a motorcycle by weight transfer alone. If you doubt this statement, check out Keith Code's Art of Cornering website. For over 20 years he has been saying the same thing and has set-up a bike to prove this.

Just my 2 cents...sorry.

LDK

[AZ-J]

larrydk;201878 wrote:

Motorcycles can only steer by countersteer and turning the bars. It has been proven over and over that you cannot steer a motorcycle by weight transfer alone. If you doubt this statement, check out Keith Code's Art of Cornering website. For over 20 years he has been saying the same thing and has set-up a bike to prove this.

Just my 2 cents...sorry.

LDK

I don't doubt the statement, and I am not countersteering. I am starting the turn or swerve in Motion by urging the bike over using my legs, the arms do the rest. This is as both Reg and Jason Pridmore taught me and countless others in their CLASS (I took the two-day version) a few years ago. In fact, I did two loops on the back of Jason's bike, I'll never forget.

If I had to initiate all turns with just arms, I had to give up. A few hours of that in the straights and 15-20 minutes of it in the twisties brings searing pain the "soft" shoulder, whcih was my problem with a high COG, 535 lb bike. I can feel the diffrence here. Maybe it makes no difference to you. It makes all the difference to me.

Tweety1

[PMonk]

back in the 70's the wisdom was to countersteer. We were told to pull on the handlebar opposite of the direction you want to go. I considered myself a much superior rider to the person who "leaned it into the turn".
30+ years later now everyone teaches push steering. Push on the handlebar in the direction you want to go. Now people talking about steering with their legs like you do horses.
Seems to me like it is a combination. I do initiate a turn by pushing on the handlebar in the direction I want to go, but you only can push so far then you end up pulling on the opposite bar to control the curve. If you shift your butt left and weight the left side of the bike aren't you actually putting pressure on the left handgrip thereby starting the turn? I think just like the old guys who just leaned into the turn without realizing it they were actually pushing on the handlebar to start the turn. My 1150RT requires much less effort to turn than my ElectraGlides or my LT did. I used to be worn out at the end of the day in my upper body on my 83 Goldwing it so much effort to turn and control.

I am looking forward to the 850GS coming out. That may be the perfect machine for both street and Forrest Service type roads.

[AZ-J]

99691 wrote: I used to be worn out at the end of the day in my upper body on my 83 Goldwing it so much effort to turn and control.


That's how I was after an hour or two on the 530 lb Suzuki Bandit 1200SAV I had before the F800S, and in less time after a twisties run. All that vibrating upper body "stress" irritated the bad shoulder into a pain threshhold. After six weeks of riding the F800S, the lighter lower COF F800S does not seem to do that to me at all. What a lesson in centrifigal/centrpital force this was for me.

I don't care what we call it, but a left leg push moves the rear rightward initiating rightward movement, and vice versa on the left. As long as it works well for me, why should I complain?

As you relieved your aches riding the Goldwing, the F800S did it for me; it's all good.

[Floppp]

I cringe everytime I hear anyone tell new riders to countersteer.

My boss is talking about buying a Harley (double cringe) and she has never ridden. So she gets the learners manual and reads it to prepare for the written portion of her license and she asks me about counter-steering. I told her yeah I know about but to not think about it, it will happen on its own. Answer the question if it comes up on the test but then forget about it.

Anybody who has ever successfully ridden a bicycle learned how to countersteer when they were 5 and the training wheels came off. It is definitely not something, in my opinion, that someone should be thinking about when they are learning to ride. It just invites disaster because the amount of effort in countersteer involved in turning at speed is microscopic.

I paid close attention to it last night when I was out and all I could sense was that I was putting slight pressure on the grip on the inside of the turn. I find that, at least the way I ride, it is more of a slight weight transfer or shoulder lean into the turn and my body does whatever is needed to control the bike around the corner. And when I say slight it is more of thinking about it than actually doing it.

I don't dispute the fact that we do countersteer, whether it is by pushing, pulling, stepping or whatever. The physics of high speed turning of a inline wheeled vehicle requires countersteering, but it is not something the rider, especially a novice, should even be thinking about. It will happen all on it's own.

Experienced riders have learned how to get around a curve safely and whatever works for them is right.

Extreme high speed and slow speed turns are another matter altogther.

[PMonk]

Tweety1, I have to admit that I am really tempted by the F800. Everyone loves what they just bought for a while, but I am thinking that the F800's are keepers. Seems like BMW may have hit a home run. A relative inexpensive bike with light weight no spline / final drive worries and 85 HP. Wonder how a GS would work 2 up?

Kinda looks like we have a dual thread going. When I turn the wheel right in my Dodge truck it goes right. When I turn my handlebar right on my BMW it goes left.
That is counter right?

I really prefer the the "push to initiate a turn" rather than "countersteering". It is much simpler for new riders to remember and what is being taught nowadays, but I bet if you pay attention you start with a push and end up pulling on the opposite when your arm reaches it's limit.

[AZ-J]

99691 wrote (abbereviated) Wonder how a GS would work 2 up?

Kinda looks like we have a dual thread going. When I turn the wheel right in my Dodge truck it goes right. When I turn my handlebar right on my BMW it goes left.
That is counter right?

I really prefer the the "push to initiate a turn" rather than "countersteering". It is much simpler for new riders to remember and what is being taught nowadays, but I bet if you pay attention you start with a push and end up pulling on the opposite when your arm reaches it's limit.

99691,

The F800 is a home run for some, as other bikes are for others. It all depends on how you fit it. For me, it is and it is a keeper.

The S model bike fits me well because I am right sized for it as my heavier self fit the larger Bandit in 1997 when I bought it, and did not later when I lost a lot of excess weight. Then I was 200-210 lb, now I am 165-170 and this 400+ lb bike fits me fine. A 450 lb (?) GS might not. The 25+ lb heavier ST did not because the handle bar pull back was too much for me; I felt like I was leaned back on a cruiser, whereas the Bandit's handle bars had me slightly leaned forward. This is as I am on the S. A GS might fit me as bad as the fit of the ST was for me. The S fits like the Bandit did for me; my arms reach the bars with me slightly leaned forward, as I want.

As for two up, that depends on the seat the GS comes with, as my S has just a little bit shy room for two (being polite) "thick" people. On mine, I rarely go 2 up, so I put on the easily-removed rear seat cover because I loved that look, and I think it curtails rear end swirls.

We could argue "counter" all day and night, since "counter" comes naturally on two wheels and we all do it thinking about it or not. I just start a turn with a big leg pushover, and let the arms do the fine tuning, since it saves wear and tear on a bad shoulder joint. It works for me; it also worked for Jason Pridmore when I rode on the back of his 120 mph bike for two laps. I watched from the rear the rest of the way once I opened my eyes up again halfway round the first lap, after closing them 10 seconds or so into it (the initial wheelie is creepy when you are on the back).

Call turning whatever you please. All I know is this bike is a pleasure to "flick", and it flicks for me, my way with my legs, as well as other ways for other riders. The more my arm was to reach its limit, I'd have to quit riding, because even some bad irritation goes a long way fast. I have to careful not to do so.

I don't lean on the bars-that hurts fast, too. The idea is not to. You do it your way, I'll do it my way, and let's meet in the middle-let's go riding! Me, tomorrow I wash the 7 week old bike, and then try to mount its new RKA tank bag on it.

[breyfogle]

I don't doubt the statement, and I am not countersteering. Tweety1

Any motorcycle traveling more than a few MPH will not turn unless the front wheel is "counter steered". The amount of counter steering is so small and the process is so automatic to an experienced rider that you are just not aware that it is occurring.

[AZ-J]

Any motorcycle traveling more than a few MPH will not turn unless the front wheel is "counter steered". The amount of counter steering is so small and the process is so automatic to an experienced rider that you are just not aware that it is occurring.

With 2K miles now on the S, I know if I am counter steering, it is with my legs, and NOT by pushing on the bars because if I do that enough with the left arm, the shoulder gives in to pain. I misspoke when I said I am not counter steering; I should have said I am counter steering with my legs, and not my arms.

I have the left turn/left curve perfect with the legs, the right ones now need work to match, and I'll say this, this method is far more lane accurate. At high enough speed on AZ's curvy mountain roads, I can follow left curves ON THE LINE, but the right ones using the old push method, are not as accurate, and I waver in the lane a bit.

You may find this neurotic, but if it worked for Jason Pridmore, and I learned it from him, I have found it works for me. Now, more practice on right curves is coming and it is getting more accurate.

As for that accuracy, ever ride in tandem group formation, only to have to spread when the road gets twisty? I have found on left sweeps, I don't need to, and on right ones I still do for now.
By the fall I hope I won't have to, I may just do so to not creep out other riders.

BTW, on downhill sweepers I went from fourth following three R bikes, with a K-LT behind me, in formation to first just rolling downhill. I am not bragging here; it just happened naturally on AZ 87 out of Payson.

Does that say anything about the handling of the F800S? Read this month's MOA and they say it does. Its light weight gives it an edge hard to find elsewhere.

Tweety1

[Herleman]

Wanna take a test? (We used to do this with racing bicycles).

Try (CAREFULLY -- VERY CAREFULLY) riding through a sweeping right turn, medium speed with just your right hand on the grip.

See if you are pulling or pushing. I'll bet you are pushing.

The essence of countersteer. We all do it, most of us do it as a sort of reflex action. We don't think about it, we just do it. If you think about it, you usually wind up wobbling all over the road. But if you just lean and push, the bike goes around the corner as if by magic.

There's probably some scientific principle involved. Thinking about it usually screws everything up.

[AZ-J]

Wanna take a test? (We used to do this with racing bicycles).

Try (CAREFULLY -- VERY CAREFULLY) riding through a sweeping right turn, medium speed with just your right hand on the grip.

See if you are pulling or pushing. I'll bet you are pushing.

The essence of countersteer. We all do it, most of us do it as a sort of reflex action. We don't think about it, we just do it. If you think about it, you usually wind up wobbling all over the road. But if you just lean and push, the bike goes around the corner as if by magic.

There's probably some scientific principle involved. Thinking about it usually screws everything up.

Tried it, going right, if I don't turn the throttle until out of the turn, I am pushing a bit. Going left, I can turn with no left hand on the bars to push, and the right hand just waiting to throttle out of the turn; the left leg is most of the work, the right leg a bit.

Now all I need to do to follow as straight a line going right as I can going left, is to use the same technique, and "unlearn" the push on the bar/throttle. The leg momentum is more accurate line driving.

My left shoulder, the bad one, has not hurt since I started with this bike; it would hurt after 2 hours on the same bike I rode before with no problems prior to the shoulder issues, and after the problems emerged, requiring therapy, then two surgeries six months apart, and more therapy. It was a bad lamenting two years I did not/could not ride, and three more figuring out I needed the light weight/low COG of the F800S I have to overcome the soreness that left me not wanting to ride like a Pavlov dog.

The F can be maneuvered so easily, I am certain there are myriad ways to do it. I mastered and think I overcame the problem one, now I just want its line-adhering-to accuracy going right, which I have already going left. I just need practice and more practice. Then I want to take an ERC with this bike.

For me, the S model was the charmer, as the ST's bars were in my way. YMMV, try it on for size but you have to try it, to understand it. :bikes

Tweety1

[F800ST]

No such bike. It could have been a misprint in the article.

[F800ST]

F 800 RT

No such beast

[Floppp]

rotational inertia - something like that. It has been a long time since high school physics.

Apply a force to the axle of a spinning object and the inertia creates a force 90% from the force being applied. Push your right grip and the force is created tipping the wheel to the right initiating a lean and subsequent turn. Push harder and get more lean.

Or apply the force in any other way. Force the bike to lean to the right with your legs or body and the wheel turns to the left increasing the lean of the frame.

[dinandan]

I LOVE the new F800ST ( I test rode one last week) but I HATE the riding position. I love my R80RT and if the new F800 had a more relaxed seating position without much weight on my wrist I'd be sold. I know there are bar-backs and bigger windscreens available but I'm going to wait until BMW realizes they have a great platform for a light-weight, low, less expensive touring bike. Just my 2 cents.

Dan

[Floppp]

I have the ST and love it.

I would have chosen it even if a GT or RT model was available because I use it for daily riding.

At 6'1" the wind off the screen hits me in the upper chest and takes all pressure off my wrists, which don't get a lot of weight on them since I learned to bend my elbows while riding.

Lower screens are available for shorter riders to get the wind support right. The S version is much lower and is a 5 minute swap.

If you are looking for a complete chest and helmet coverage, then yes, bar backs and risers and a higher screen would be needed.

[riders]

I now have 8500 miles on my 800S which includes one 1006 mile day; also I did a 747 mile day and a 708 mile day. I don't find that my wrists get any more tired than they did on my RT or RS or R. As far as countersteering is concerned it is always fun when my wife rides with me who also rides her own bike can steer for me by just leaning her body. I think I can take corners faster with her on the back which isn't all that often

[arebin]

Selling the Ducati today and getting an S tomorrow. It'll seem like a RT in comparison. :dance

[F800ST]

No such dog.

[AZ-J]

I now have 8500 miles on my 800S which includes one 1006 mile day; also I did a 747 mile day and a 708 mile day. I don't find that my wrists get any more tired than they did on my RT or RS or R. As far as countersteering is concerned it is always fun when my wife rides with me who also rides her own bike can steer for me by just leaning her body. I think I can take corners faster with her on the back which isn't all that often

Real nice post, riders, giving the essence of what the 800S is all about (even the ST is as good). Me, going on a long loop group ride including what is considered the twistiest road in AZ (AZ 191, formerly 666 and renamed over "satan" connotations), and all four seasons are included on the loop. Getting the bike ready during nights this week as we are flipping 111/110 each day this week, here in Phoenix.

When I get back, I'll post the total mileage. I just wish my confidence level was high enough to ride totals like you have, but my recovery from major shoulder issues, including 2 surgeries and long periods of therapy, left it low and painful on my last bike. I am still recovering from it years later, but the 800S is part of my therapy, clearly.:clap

Tweety1

[mslscott]

I'm 6'4 and about 200 pounds. Anybody out there close to my height that already owns a F800 and has had a chance to put some miles on the bike? I am wondering how the F800 feels to ride, and are the ergonomics OK on longer rides.
Thanks.
Milt

[AZ-J]

When I get back, I'll post the total mileage.
Tweety1

It was over 600 miles making my total part time riding 2260 to date, more than I could put on my last top heavy bike the last two years I owned it.

I love the F800S and some my R friends were amazed by its size, weight, and comparable HP to theirs.

I'm 6'4 and about 200 pounds. Anybody out there close to my height that already owns a F800 and has had a chance to put some miles on the bike? I am wondering how the F800 feels to ride, and are the ergonomics OK on longer rides.
Thanks.
Milt

For reference, I am 6 feet tall, 170-175 lbs, size 32 to 34 pants, M size shirt if pre-washed and L if not, 39-40 jacket, size 11 shoe-boot. Fir me the ergos ate perfect and why I went after this bike. The S fit me better than the ST - TRY BOTH, some like the added handle bars, some like me fit better w/o them.

[Newstar]

I picked up an ST as a loaner bike this past weekend. I have to return it on Friday. It's a far cry from my 650 GS which is the only bike I've ridden. The seating position took some getting used to as well as the shifting of weight to my arms/hands. At first I think I was a little too nervous to really pass judgement and traffic conditions were less than ideal.

The next morning, we went out for an early morning ride since I knew the twisties would not yet be crowded. That's when I really came to appreciate the bike. In my opinion (again, only having the 650GS to compare with), it handles extremely well in the curves and was a ton of fun to ride.

The bike I'm riding has the lowered seat and I'm finding that the seating position is hell on my knees after a few hours of riding. I'm wondering if the raised seat would make a difference. I'm 5'5". Does anyone have an opinion on this? i've also read that there is an aftermarket kit to raise the handlebars for a more upright position. Has anyone done this?

[Herleman]

I gotta admit, I tried both the F800S and the F800 ST. I'd like to tell you that I did a scientific comparison of ergonomics or whatever. But, I didn't. I bought the ST because it was blue and I like the color.

I really found almost no difference between the two bikes. The S pushes you forward a bit, the ST has a more upright ridng position. The ST comes with a rear luggage rack, the S doesn't. Other than that they are almost identical in their behavior. Fortunately, they are also very very good -- both of them.

I also tried an R1200RT. I loved it. It is, no doubt, a very very good bike also (and it also comes in beautiful blue paint). But in the end, I just couldn't justify the cost of 1200RT ownership. The F800 fit my budget much better, and does everything that the 1200RT can do (well, almost anyway). Either one of them has capabilities that far exceed mine.

I've had no regrets over the F800ST purchase. I love my bike. Would I trade it for an R1200RT? At this point, probably not. This little thing grows on you.

[wezul]

Hey, congrats!
I like my F800ST a lot, in fact just posted about it in another thread.
I think you'll get a kick out of it, happy riding.