Bike purchase gone bad- friend needs advice

[The_Veg]

A few weeks ago a friend of mine bought a very gently used F650CS from a guy in Oklahoma City. She made the first mistake right up front, by agreeing to purchase a bike with a lien on the title. The seller seemed very up-front about it and said that the bike needed to be paid off but once sold that would happen and my friend would receive the title within ten business days. The seller agreed to half up front and half when the title cleared.
I went to help pick up the bike. My friend rented a cargo-van and we went up on a Saturday.
The seller seemed a bit young and hip-hop for a BMW guy, but he had an R1200C and a K1200R in his garage too. He and a friend were very helpful getting the bike loaded and we went home happy.
Now the title is still out there and the seller is not answering calls, emails, etc. My friend has found that the bike is not titled in OK, that it was originally sold in IN (friend has the first owner's name), and that Carfax has no data for that VIN (which doesn't surprise me- I doubt that they handle data on semi-obscure motorcycles).
My friend is going to give the motor-vehicle dept in IN a call on Monday and see if anything useful can be had from them.
The up-side is that my friend has the bike in possession and it is in excellent gently-used condition (2003 w/ 1600 miles on it!) and runs properly.
Anybody have any advice on what legal recourse my friend may have available?

[Motor31]

First question. Does the bike have a license plate on it from the guy who sold it? What state is it from. If the bike has a plate from OK and was never registered there that's one indication this was a fraud from the start. If it was done accross state lines may even be a Federal offense if the FBI chooses to get involved.

First off you may need to call the Police in OK city and ask them to check on a fraud case using the vin from the bike. You're friend will likely have to file a report there.

What documentation did your friend get? Did the seller provide a bill of sale? Anything in writing at all?

How did your friend provide payment? Cash or check? If check they may want to put a stop payment on it if it has not cleared.

Your friend may have to look into a law suit in OK to get their money back which means getting a local lawyer. You might prepare your friend to lose the bike too especially if it was stolen.

[MCMXCIVRS]

It's too late now, but the best way to complete a purchase when there is an outstanding lien is to have the portion of the purchase price that is reflected by the lien, paid to the lien holder directly. This eliminates the middleman and the possibility that the lien will not be cleared. The balance (if any) can be paid to the owner.

[FredRydr]

She made the first mistake right up front, by agreeing to purchase a bike with a lien on the title. The seller... said that the bike needed to be paid off but once sold that would happen and my friend would receive the title within ten business days. The seller agreed to half up front and half when the title cleared.

Like many pleas for legal advice on here, the facts leave much to the imagination. Your friend was rather foolish not to insist on a procedure that escrows the purchase price pending tender of clean title. Your friend needs to consult legal counsel in Oklahoma City, who will know the questions to ask relevant to legal remedies there, and determine whether or not it is a matter for the authorities.

If your friend intends to rely on anonymous "legal" advice from the internet, then all bets are off.

Fred

[flash412]

Do you have ANY documents?

Me... I'd take it back to the place where it was purchased and call the police if the residents do not cooperate, betting that there is dope inside and the don't want the cops sniffing around.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Do you have ANY documents?

Me... I'd take it back to the place where it was purchased and call the police if the residents do not cooperate, betting that there is dope inside and the don't want the cops sniffing around.

I was with you until you presumed there was "dope inside". I'm guessing you presume there's dope inside because the guys were young and "hip-hop"? We don't know the race of the gentlemen who sold the bike in question, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see a urinalysis report attached to the original post.

This means any assumption that there is dope involved comes from one of the following: Stereotyping? Racism? Racial profiling?

[The_Veg]

Right after I posted the question I heard from the friend again. She tracked down the original owner in Indiana, who as it turns out never signed the title over to the guy in OKC. The original owner was able to get in touch with the seller. IN-Guy will sign it over to OKC-Guy, who will get the lien taken care of and the remaining money and title will be exchanged with my friend. At least that's the plan. Keep your fingers crossed.

My friend wrote a bill of sale and the guy did sign it. No license plate though.

[flash412]

This means any assumption that there is dope involved comes from one of the following: Stereotyping? Racism? Racial profiling?Where was the racial profiling? Neither I nor anyone else said anything about race. Please lead us through your logic that brings race into this discussion. Thank you.

[flash412]

Right after I posted the question I heard from the friend again. She tracked down the original owner in Indiana, who as it turns out never signed the title over to the guy in OKC. The original owner was able to get in touch with the seller. IN-Guy will sign it over to OKC-Guy, who will get the lien taken care of and the remaining money and title will be exchanged with my friend. At least that's the plan. Keep your fingers crossed.

My friend wrote a bill of sale and the guy did sign it. No license plate though.Lien company actually owns bike and has the title.
IN-guy has title in his name, but not his possession.
OKC-guy had (past tense) possession but sold it.
GalPal now has possession (at half price) but little paperwork.

How many of the people involved in the transaction have in the past or will in the future appear on the teevee show COPS!

AFAIK, a title with a lien on it is in the possession of the lien company. Therefore IN-guy cannot sign it to OKC-guy. SOMEBODY (probably GalPal... ALARM BELLS) must pay off the lien first. This whole thing smells funny.

Why is OKC guy involved? He sold a bike he didn't own. If it were a horse and we were living 100 years ago, there'd be a rope over a tree limb involved before this whole mess is sorted out.

[basketcase]

This whole thing smells funny.IMHO, it is reeking with a stench.

The legal owner of the bike is the lien holder. Functionally speaking, the bike is on loan to the purchaser until he pays it off, at which point it becomes his. Next, it is against the law to sell the bike with a lien on it, so the guy who sold it is in hock with the lien holder.

So if the lien holder decided to come get it, your friend could be required to surrender it.

And if I read all the above right, the original owner has the title? If the original owner has the title, how can the lien holder have it? Banks only surrender the title when the loan is paid in full.

Something reeks.

If the lady in question can get her money back and duck out of this deal, it will be a huge win for her at this point, but my gut says the money is long since gone...

So it might be better to contact an attorney, and perhaps the police, and document her own actions -- lest she get ensnared in a pile of something that grows in the dark.

[RTRandy]

If that were me I wouldn't be sending no freakin lawyer to collect my money. But hey, I grew up in New Jersey.

[dancogan]

Lien company actually owns bike and has the title.
IN-guy has title in his name, but not his possession.
...

Well, maybe but not necessarily. That's why the lien company puts the lien on the title itself. The owner (guy who bought the bike) has title, but it is not clear title. In many cases, the owner actually has possession of the title, which clearly states a first and possibly second Secured Party.


A lien holder is just that: a party who has the right to take possession and ultimately ownership if payments are not made according to the contract. The lien holder is not the owner.

[lawman]

As my civil law colleague Dan correctly states, there are civil remedies available; in addition, most states have have a criminal statute requiring surrender of a clear title within a specified time (typically 15 to 30 days) of a transaction; again, as recommended above contact should be made with the local police deparment (or sheriff's office, depending upon location and jurisdiction) for an investigation which can be forwarded to the appropriate prosecuting authority; in theory, the feds might have jurisdiction but this is not the kind of case they typically take; good luck...wj

[mrich12000]

:stick Was it a Container deall:bolt :bolt :blah :blah :lurk

[dlearl476]

Right after I posted the question I heard from the friend again. She tracked down the original owner in Indiana, who as it turns out never signed the title over to the guy in OKC. The original owner was able to get in touch with the seller. IN-Guy will sign it over to OKC-Guy, who will get the lien taken care of and the remaining money and title will be exchanged with my friend. At least that's the plan. Keep your fingers crossed.

My friend wrote a bill of sale and the guy did sign it. No license plate though.


If it were me (I take that back, I never would have done this) I would find out who the lien holder is and fax (if they'd accept it) or send a notorized copy of the bill of sale to them along with the final payment and have the clear title sent to me, and leave OKC guy completly out of it. He's got his cut. And if the pay-off amount is less than 50% of the purchase price outstanding, so much the better.* Next time maybe he'll do a little research about how to conduct a motor vehicle transaction. I don't know if "possession is really 9/10th of the law" or not, but you have a vehicle, a bill of sale, and neither of you has a title. You're in the cat bird seat. Your move.

(fwiw, If BMW financial is involved, it's not surprising that no one has a title. They kept mine, 2 years after the bike had been paid off. No biggy)

If the 50% you owe is LESS than the pay-off, then send Tony over to explain a motor vehicle transaction to him. :laugh

[lkmcycles]

Hi, thanks for all the info. I was able to find the original owner on my own and have requested he complete the paper work required from the TX DMV. He is reluctant to get involved. I have contacted legal and the local fraud division of Nicols Hills OKC and am awaiting a return call to file a complaint. From what I've been told the only hope is for a legal title transfer is for the "couple" I purchased the bike from is to convince the true title holder to complete the paper work from the DMV which I sent him today. I have communicated my legal intentions to the "couple"

[mrich12000]

Glad to here that the end is near "wade a go":clap
Happy Easter:clap :clap

[NGAK12]

I've bought cars like this & you should make the check out jointly to the owner AND the lien holder. I would also have contact info for the lien holder and talk to them to confirm where the title goes after they release it (me). The person you bought it from could sign a "power of attorney for a motor vehicle" form that would allow you to re-title it in your name without them present.
If it works out, your friend is lucky. Otherwise, file criminal charges with the proper jurisdiction. Criminal charges and the possible jail threat will get their attention a lot better that civil action (lawsuit).

[lkmcycles]

I resolved the issue by getting a sureity bond on the bike at a cost of 120.00

[robsryder]

I resolved the issue by getting a sureity bond on the bike at a cost of 120.00

How did the surety bond help resolve the issue? Were the prior owners somehow compelled to complete the title transfer for the bike? Or did the
purchaser's money basically get refunded? Who has the bike?

Please provide some more details for those of us that may one day be in similar circumstances. [Although personally I've had great success in
transactions buying and selling bikes - but no liens have been involved, just cash and signatures].

[lkmcycles]

I purchased the bike from a couple in OKC, they never registered it and according to the TX DMV they did not have the right to resell the bike as they were never the legal owners since they never had a clean title. I located the original owner in Michigan, and found that he had never sent the title to the OKC couple. Well once they received it they signed it and then gave it to me. Duh...I told them the title was no good as it was and they would need to register in OK and then sign it over to me. But... I was stupid and gave them the money before the title was given (all this was done in person) they agreeded and I asked for the return of the money minus $500, the agreeded upon earnest money. They refused the return of the cash, and I was not about to hand over the title.

I went to the local DMV and filled out miles of forms stating the facts and applied for a sureity bond, I had to find a bailsman to issue one at a cost of $120.00. Then back to the DMV for the plates. The bond ensures that if the original owner tries to claim the vehicle the bond will cover the reimbursement cost to the seeker.

Finally..the end..I have the bike and the title is on the way

[KGT1200]

"Where was the racial profiling? Neither I nor anyone else said anything about race. Please lead us through your logic that brings race into this discussion. Thank you."


POST REMOVED by author because of offense taken by another member. It was not what I intended it to communicate, and you took it all wrong, Flash, my mistake.



Once again, my error. Now dont "Imus" me, please, I'm just a dumb scooter head "who made a mistake" in profiling white America, not you!

[OfficerImpersonator]

ALL Americans and in fact all humans should be offended by both redclfco and dvandkq's hateful posts.

Personal attacks are not supposed to be allowed on this website.
I guess the moderators find it acceptable for people to call me a racist.

(P.S. Oklahoma is not in the South.)

What did I ever say that was hateful?

BTW - I just re-read the thread - no hate there by me, so I'm baffled.

[KGT1200]

Flash,

Your comment bothers me. I was jus joking around, and said what obviously was offensive. I apolgise to you AND AMERICA! Dont wanno pickle jus wnta ride my motorcycle!

Take away my 40 yr radio show, take away everything here, I am sorry, I said some dumb words BUT DON"T I MEAN DON"T

Take away my BMW!



:usa :usa :usa :usa :dance :fight :hug :hug

[flash412]

Flash,
Your comment bothers me. I was jus joking around, and said what obviously was offensive. I apolgise to you AND AMERICA! Dont wanno pickle jus wnta ride my motorcycle!
Take away my 40 yr radio show, take away everything here, I am sorry, I said some dumb words BUT DON"T I MEAN DON"T
Take away my BMW!
:usa :usa :usa :usa :dance :fight :hug :hugRedclfco,
Thank you. Apparently we had a misunderstanding. I accept your explanation and your deletion of the post. You and I are good. If we meet in person, please remind me that I owe you a beer (or other frosty beverage of your choice).

:love

- Flash