They came out yesterday

[ltljohn]

Spring arrived here with a vengence yesterday. 82 degreesand beautiful. The weather brought out the new crop of the "nogatts" Saw the first one on my way home from work jeans, sneakers, sunglasses and nothing else.
I just don't get it.:dunno

[PAULBACH]

Maybe they are looking for nomination as a Darwin Award recipient?

[aerialfilm1]

The weather brought out the new crop of the "nogatts" Saw the first one on my way home from work jeans, sneakers, sunglasses and nothing else.
I just don't get it.:dunno

Same here in Florida.
Yesterday I watched a "nogatt" V Twin guy with temp. tag and beach cruiser handle bars try to lane spilt (illegal here), and cross 2 lanes of traffic to make a right turn within one city block. Instead of then waiting for the light to change, he cut through a Chevron station on the corner. While cutting the corner, he waved at another American V-twin rider who just filled his tank and was putting on his riding gloves, helmet, eye protection, and jacket. Bet the nogatt never thought twice.

It's the same feeling I get when I'm washing my hands in a mens room, and some chuckle-head comes right out of a stall, nods to me, fixes his hair then leaves without even considering that maybe this guy washing his hands might be on to something. Then he wraps his bacteria laden hand around the same door handle hundreds of his like minded brothers have done, to hurry back to his table and throw down some french fries, potato chips or other finger food. :sick

"Some people you just can't reach"

[Hodag]

do you wear a helmet while driving your car

you would be safer.

[BeemoKat]

what health/disability/life insurance do these NOGAT guys carry?

[Belquar]

Saw loads out yesterday too. First really really nice day and they were everywhere. Still see all of us regulars out there but intermixed are all the folks running the stabil out of their bikes. Big bunch of crotch rockets yesterday afternoon sitting at the Wawa by my house.

Don't know what they were doing. Their bikes were off. They were all just sitting there. Most of them had their graphic helmets on or cocked on top of their head. Little girlies on the postage stamp behind them. But they were going anywhere. Just sitting there being seen.

One girl on a sportster rode up and down my street probably six times. I am all for going out and having a ride for the sake of a ride, but go somewhere. Don't just do laps on the local residential streets with your loud a$$ pipes. Makes me want to throw rocks.

But it was a really nice day to ride. I was so happy to pull the liners out of my gear and put it away for the summer. Brisk ride home from work this morning. Very refreshing. I always feel like I lost a ton of weight when I take the liners out. :laugh

[jdmetzger]

do you wear a helmet while driving your car

you would be safer.

Indeed you would be safer wearing a helmet in a car. Of course, with a seatbelt on in your car you have a much decreased chance of a head injury in an accident than you would on a motorcycle. It's really an apples and oranges type of argument that the anti-helmet people like to try and make. I think it would be closer to compare wearing a helmet with wearing a seatbelt (which is legally mandated, and I don't hear a lot of complaining).

[henzilla]

Was approaching a two lane can turn left onto the access road opportunity yesterday on way home from office. I was in the #2(outside) lane...everyone always crams into the #1 lane even though signage is clear
As I prepared to pass a Sportster who was following to close to the cage ahead, he had to lock-em-up and I saw smoke and heard the screech and a little bobble-slide...I just hit a gear and made my way thru the turn,looking back to see that he was OK and coming...helmet. but shorts and tennies. He zoomed by me looking at me like I was an alien

[sgtboring]

I am turning over a new leaf.

I am trying to live and let others hurt, smash, or otherwise shread their bodies due to either; poor breeding or less then par up-bringing. :brow

I will no longer get wrapped around the axel about it kids in flip flops or men and women without helmets. :D :D :D

Cause and effect have little meaning to some and fashion will always be more important then safety for many. :stick

I have compasion for victims but refuse to suffer fools. If poeple want to kill them self... so be it. :clap

Riding a motorcycle is unsafe period. But if others want to make it worse...more gas for me!:nyah

[OfficerImpersonator]

This past weekend a young guy (24, I think) was riding 100 mph down I-90 through the suburbs east of Seattle. He rear-ended a SUV going 65 and died instantly. The helmet didn't save him - nor should it have considering his actions.

The two passengers in the SUV actually suffered injuries, as the impact was so intense.

The nice thing about motorcycles is that the idiots take themselves out of the gene pool and usually don't kill innocent bystanders. Unlike drivers, natural selection applies to riders.

If only it also applied to drivers!

[BeemoKat]

In theory, I have no problem with the removal of idiocy from the gene pool, but in actuality, this dumb stuff costs all of us. Higher insurance, public assistance, oppressive legislation, and stuff I haven't thought of yet.
Otherwise, free to be stupid, why not? What to do about it, I haven't a clue.

[hlothery]

You have to be careful of stereotypes and judgements, however. I am the same guy I was on the Yamaha V-star, and on the Harley Road King. Just because I now ride an RT hasn't changed much. I know several long-time Harley and Goldwing riders who have many more miles than I under their belts, and they are very proficient motorcyclists, who ride defensively and safely all the time, but are not ATGATT. Who am I to judge them, even though I do not agree with the Do-rags and wife-beaters they wear while riding. I, personally, want nothing to do with skulls, flames, or ghosts around my RT......in fact I want them as far away from me and my thought processes as possible. But, don't kid yourselves.....there are some posers for sure, but some of these folks can and do ride!

[jdmetzger]

In theory, I have no problem with the removal of idiocy from the gene pool, but in actuality, this dumb stuff costs all of us. Higher insurance, public assistance, oppressive legislation, and stuff I haven't thought of yet.
Otherwise, free to be stupid, why not? What to do about it, I haven't a clue.

I'm with you. On one hand, if they want to kill themselves, they are free to do so. That's generally the anti-helmet argument: "I'm only hurting myself, so it's my choice." If only that was the case.

For example, say an no-helmet rider goes out and gets hit; he's not at fault, but it still happened. The cheapest thing is for him to die, in regards to money. That doesn't take into account any family or friends the rider has left behind to suffer emotionally. The expensive thing is for him to live horribly crippled. Even with insurance money and lawsuits, that money is not going to last the riders lifetime. Who pays for the medical bills he can't afford? Us, in the form of higher insurance rates. Who pays for his food, since he can no longer work? Taxpayers, in the form of welfare. So right there, it's affecting a LOT more than just the rider. I wonder if there is a calculation to see how much it would cost over say... 30 years, to support someone in that condition. I'm sure it's very high.

The anti-helmet people would now tell me "but that can happen to a rider with a helmet on, too", and they are right. Go read "Face Plant" on advrider. It happens, and the stories are horribly depressing... but your odds are still FAR better with a helmet on. I need to do some research; I have a feeling similar arguments of "it only affects me" were made against the seatbelt law, as well.

[Hodag]

they should outlaw men over 40 from riding (they comprise the largest group of deaths per year, and its rising fast...)

think of the lives and money saved

[Braddog]

I'm with Hodag....wait, I'm over 40...dang it. :banghead

[Kutcher]

I know several long-time Harley and Goldwing riders who have many more miles than I under their belts, and they are very proficient motorcyclists, who ride defensively and safely all the time, but are not ATGATT.

I think its not so much that they can ride...Or are even great riders with years of experience...
Its a matter of not being prepared for the worst case scenario.

Even the best of riders go down. They get back up usually because of the gear covering their rear!

[hlothery]

I think its not so much that they can ride...Or are even great riders with years of experience...
Its a matter of not being prepared for the worst case scenario.

Even the best of riders go down. They get back up usually because of the gear covering their rear!

I don't disagree with you. I just think the stereotypes get kind of old sometimes, and I think you need to be careful, and keep your mind open. I remember, as a case in point from Sailing, a national publication which got scathing comments from many folks a few years back because the cover photo showed a guy from Australia on deck without Sperry Topsiders, or some other form of boat shoe. My Austrailian friends got such a kick out of the comments, and they laughed and laughed about the American Yuppie shoes as being part of our sailing uniform. Taught me a good lesson......we all have our uniforms. I think we should try not to judge the uniform, but get to know the individual in it. I also think many of the folks who preach ATGATT might modify their stance a little in San Antonio in August, if they truly ride to work. If I am honest, I am MTGMTT. Just my $.02.......YMMV. :wave

[henzilla]

I STILL ride anything w/ 2 wheels...wear a helmet & gloves on bicycles...and in 45+ years of riding them have been on my butt/ear a few times.Broke a helmet 3 years ago in a group crash...got a concussion on that one, but rode home. Have worn helmets on the pedal bikes since they were out, even though they looked like hockey helmets and people made big fun of me. My daughter had a crash on a hill by my house and fractured her skull at age 5...about a year before kids helmets were available...I bought one for me after she exited the hospital, and for all the kids when I found them...cool or not. It is the norm for most cyclists now.

I NOW wear one on my HD,did not in the 70's when I was "bulletproof", yet wore one on my Honda 90 at age 15???Had a few scrapes on that one! . Lately,I have noticed a trend that more and more are doing same, regardless of manufacturer.I commented to several riders the other day how many folks were geared up. Yeah, still the image thing going on and personal freedoms, I have heard all views...I have made a choice myself and that is all I can control. Anybody else has the right and ability to make a choice also...right or wrong with my beliefs...but it's their choice.
It does add to our insurance rates, public healthcare and so-on when things go wrong...but WHAT doesn't? What about riding in a convertible? a roll over in that vehicle is not going to be good!

I have caught myself running to the corner store /fuel stop w/out gear...I acknowledge the possibility of something happening a block from my house ( see daughters accident above) but I made a choice.
I think most of the non gear riding folks have NEVER been horizontal on pavement or dirt...so no reference to the dangers.."won't happen to me"!

peace out, and off the soapbox!

[henzilla]

I also think many of the folks who preach ATGATT might modify their stance a little in San Antonio in August, if they truly ride to work. If I am honest, I am MTGMTT. Just my $.02.......YMMV. :wave

I also am a MTGMTT, have removed armor panels from mesh Vanson in August to get some air! And until recent personal debate will wear an open face helmet when it feels right...to me. I say I won't go w/out full face head gear, but I know I will.

[jdmetzger]

they should outlaw men over 40 from riding (they comprise the largest group of deaths per year, and its rising fast...)

think of the lives and money saved

Speaking seriously of injury and costs, here is a report from the NHTSA titled "Costs of Injuries Resulting from Motorcycle Crashes" found here: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/PEOPLE/INJURY/pedbimot/motorcycle/Motorcycle_HTML/toc.html

It's rather long, but has some charts and explanations that show a greater cost for non-helmeted injuries, and show much of the cost is covered by the government or insurance companies. Unfortunately they are lacking data regarding the issues of long-term costs. I'm sure the trend is the same, helmeted vs. non-helmeted.

[Belquar]

I don't know what the end goal in some of the NOGATT is. IF it is wind then I understand. Not for me but that is not the point. If it is poorness...well....ok. Maybe a different sport is up your alley then. You wouldn't play basketball if you couldn't afford the ball.

If you are trying to look like a badass....well I think someone decked out in full leathers, in a full face, with a full smoke shield, looks a lot more badass than someone with tassles, a vest, chaps, and a chain wallet.

Most of my Harley friends are really nice folks. Granted...I only know three of them. One thing is for sure....I ain't gonna change them. They ain't gonna change me. Hopefully I don't have to carry them one day as a result of their decision.

Brian

[MEWAYBRIGHT]

It's only life and you ain't getting out alive so quit taking it so seriously... Live and let Live, choose what is right for you and press on.

[rangepig]

I have a feeling similar arguments of "it only affects me" were made against the seatbelt law, as well.
I think that argument was shot down rather quickly with seatbelts, because being belted in means you might be kept in a position to keep more control of the vehicle than if you're flying around inside or ejected. And a driver maintaining control of the vehicle or not DOES affect more than them. Now if only we would care about them paying attention enough to control the vehicle in the first place!

Can't make that argument the same way regarding a helmet. And for the record, I'm pro-helmet because it's already saved my life once.

[rgvilla]

Same here in Florida.
Yesterday I watched a "nogatt" V Twin guy with temp. tag and beach cruiser handle bars try to lane spilt (illegal here), and cross 2 lanes of traffic to make a right turn within one city block. Instead of then waiting for the light to change, he cut through a Chevron station on the corner. While cutting the corner, he waved at another American V-twin rider who just filled his tank and was putting on his riding gloves, helmet, eye protection, and jacket. Bet the nogatt never thought twice.

It's the same feeling I get when I'm washing my hands in a mens room, and some chuckle-head comes right out of a stall, nods to me, fixes his hair then leaves without even considering that maybe this guy washing his hands might be on to something. Then he wraps his bacteria laden hand around the same door handle hundreds of his like minded brothers have done, to hurry back to his table and throw down some french fries, potato chips or other finger food. :sick

"Some people you just can't reach"

reminds me of the time i was taking a leak and a warrant officer pilot happened to be next to me. I finished zipped up and started to leave, he finished zipped up and loudly proclaimed "In flight school they taught us to wash our hands after we went to the bathroom" I stopped, turned and replied, "In crew chief school they taught us not to piss on our hands":laugh
anyway, back to the gear rants...:bolt

[Belquar]

reminds me of the time i was taking a leak and a warrant officer pilot happened to be next to me. I finished zipped up and started to leave, he finished zipped up and loudly proclaimed "In flight school they taught us to wash our hands after we went to the bathroom" I stopped, turned and replied, "In crew chief school they taught us not to piss on our hands":laugh
anyway, back to the gear rants...:bolt

:laugh :laugh

[Brownie]

Dear Beemer Brethren...............

As an EMS pilot for 15 years, I have seen some fairly banged-up motorcyclists-mostly "Wannabe Bikers" or "Squids." We do NOT see the REAL nasty stuff, because they are transported by ground as "non-emergent."

While reading this thread, I think all we can do is set the example IF WE CHOOSE to with the best protection we choose to wear. I'm a safety geek........so I commute (almost daily, 10 months/year) with heavy protective crap on in cooler months, and vented stuff in HOT summer L.A. months. I ALWAYS wear my "sissy" reflective vest (Vision), and believe in my modulators........I can't let it bother me if others don't do this, or think I'm a wimp!! We gots to be ourselves!!!

I'm always pleased though when I get a wave in return from the other commuter bikers on their V-twins. Some of them have truly been around, regardless of what they wear!!

Sure glad we're in America, eh????:p

[bubbagazoo]

If it were up to my wife, I would not ride motorcycles. She's not so much afraid of what I might do but rather what somebody else will do that will have a negative impact (bad pun intended) on me. That's one of the reasons I am an ATGATT guy. She wants me around for a long time.

The argument that wearing whatever level of protection one wants affects only the rider is a misguided one. Yes, the unprotected person only physically injures themselves. However, the pain felt by family and friends can be just a devestating. Therefore, I believe anybody who says the only person they hurt if something happens when they ride without ATGATT, is selfish and really needs to look at the REALLY big picture.

Just my contribution to the debate.

[tonkandy]

However, the pain felt by family and friends can be just a devestating. Therefore, I believe anybody who says the only person they hurt if something happens when they ride without ATGATT, is selfish and really needs to look at the REALLY big picture.


Not so, apparently some of us are so worthless that nobody else would be hurt. I know this because my ex-wife as much as told me so, and she was never, ever, wrong or mistaken.

[sgtboring]

I have heard that some insurance companies will not cover persons with-out protective gear on at the time of injury or death. Is this True?

Yeaterday I was sharing some of the sentiments of this thread with students. Afterwards the School VP (a v-twin man who has driven 4oo miles in three years) lectured me about loud pipes being more important than helmets and hi-viz gear & lights!

The VP Mr. M is not a stupid guy, or uneducated. Heck he was a State Trooper for a few years! What gives?

[henzilla]

Not so, apparently some of us are so worthless that nobody else would be hurt. I know this because my ex-wife as much as told me so, and she was never, ever, wrong or mistaken.

WOW! is there an EX-Wife quote book they all use???:laugh My kid's mom used that on all 4 of her exes! And I thought it was ME!!

[OfficerImpersonator]

I have heard that some insurance companies will not cover persons with-out protective gear on at the time of injury or death. Is this True?

Yeaterday I was sharing some of the sentiments of this thread with students. Afterwards the School VP (a v-twin man who has driven 4oo miles in three years) lectured me about loud pipes being more important than helmets and hi-viz gear & lights!

The VP Mr. M is not a stupid guy, or uneducated. Heck he was a State Trooper for a few years! What gives?

Ask Mr. Loud Pipes Save Lives/Retired State Trooper if loud pipes inhibit a rider's ability to hear sirens on emergency vehicles. He should have an informed perspective on the topic...

[Belquar]

I have heard that some insurance companies will not cover persons with-out protective gear on at the time of injury or death. Is this True?

Yeaterday I was sharing some of the sentiments of this thread with students. Afterwards the School VP (a v-twin man who has driven 4oo miles in three years) lectured me about loud pipes being more important than helmets and hi-viz gear & lights!

The VP Mr. M is not a stupid guy, or uneducated. Heck he was a State Trooper for a few years! What gives?

ahhhh....ignorance at its best.

Mr. M sounds pretty dumb. He probably couldn't hear what he was saying because of the damage his loud pipes do to his ears. Those loud pipes must be multi-functional in a crash. I don't know of any research that indicates sound provides a cushion when you hit the ground.

People like this person you describe are the ones you nod in acknowledgement of their opinion so they don't try to further explain their ignorance. I wear earphones under my helmet, so my ability to really "hear" everything that is going on is somewhat limited, but I can hear what is important. I also don't rely on my ears to warn me of danger. I hate loud pipes. Mostly when they haul a$$ up and down my street with all their noise. I do however love to hear it at Rolling Thunder. That is a cool experience.

I wear a white helmet. Because it is statistically more visible. I wear an armored textile jacket to protect myself. I have mesh pants for the really warm summer days and otherwise wear jeans. Not all the right gear, but it is what I have. The best protection we can provide ourselves is what is under the helmet.

Brian