Spinal fusion and motorcycling

[2BikeMike]

Isn't that scary combination! But, that's what I'm facing. In Nov. of 2006 I injured my back while moving a heavy crate at work.The medical term is spondylolisthesis, the forward movement of one vertebrae over the one below it. At this point I have endured two facet injections in my lower back and have gone thru two months of physical therapy in an attempt to reduce pain in my L4 - L5 region. My questions are, have any of you guys went thru with this type of surgery? What has been your result? Would you do it over? Plus or minus? My doctor says that he believes that I will benefit from the surgery and that I won't be under any restrictions, but to be honest, I don't see how a person would not be restricted, because the end result is that you lose some mobility with spinal fusion. I have read just about everything I can find and basically it comes down to an individual decision but the outcome is not known until after the fact. This has all been quite a shock to me as I am in very good health and have not experienced any major health problems. Keeping a positive outlook is important and that is what I'm trying to do. So, if any of you guys have any personal experience, please reply. Thanks.

[Rasbutan]

It'll be a good reason to buy multiple different bikes to try all the riding positions!! Then you can back charge it to the company since they're gonna owe you BIG!

Seriously, good luck! I hope you come out alright!

[osbornk]

I crushed 5 lumbar vertebra in my back in 1968 in a car accident. I was in traction for 50+ days flat on my back and had to wear a very restrictive back brace for 2 years. The doctors did a mylogram (it was a long time ago) and said I should not be able to walk. They talked to me about doing a fusion at that time to help with the pain. They said a fusion would make my back stiffer which would give me less mobility. They told me it "might" help with the pain and I could possibly be paralyzed. I elected to live with the pain and have for the last 39 years. Keep in mind, great strides have been made in the last 40 years. I don't know what decision I would make if it happened now and I was at the age I was then.

My back hurts if I overwork it, if I lay wrong or if I have to be on my feet for any length of time (even a long grocery store line). However, I can ride in a car or ride a motorcycle all day without any problem. Riding a motorcycle is more fun and cheaper than golf and I have a good excuse.

[screwtop]

Well, I don't have any experience with spinal fusion, but my wife does. She has a harrington rod in her back (titanium) and 9 fused vertabre. The rod is 9" long and I got the X-rays in my safe to proove it. Her surgery was done to correct a 3 dimensional form of scholiosis, and was performed when she was 19. She moves around quite well now, and has no problem riding on the bike. In general, I would say that her life post-surgery (16 years) is quite normal, and only minimally impacted by the rod in her back (her back does not bend).

Back pain can be quite debilitating. I think that the technological advances they have made in this area have been huge in the past 15 to 20 years, and that you would probably really benefit from having it done. I encourage you to get more opinions, none the less.

Best of luck!

[hlothery]

Isn't that scary combination! But, that's what I'm facing. In Nov. of 2006 I injured my back while moving a heavy crate at work.The medical term is spondylolisthesis, the forward movement of one vertebrae over the one below it. At this point I have endured two facet injections in my lower back and have gone thru two months of physical therapy in an attempt to reduce pain in my L4 - L5 region. My questions are, have any of you guys went thru with this type of surgery? What has been your result? Would you do it over? Plus or minus? My doctor says that he believes that I will benefit from the surgery and that I won't be under any restrictions, but to be honest, I don't see how a person would not be restricted, because the end result is that you lose some mobility with spinal fusion. I have read just about everything I can find and basically it comes down to an individual decision but the outcome is not known until after the fact. This has all been quite a shock to me as I am in very good health and have not experienced any major health problems. Keeping a positive outlook is important and that is what I'm trying to do. So, if any of you guys have any personal experience, please reply. Thanks.

I would seek a second opinion. Spondylolisthesis does not usually require surgery unless it is a very high grade of slippage. Spinal fusion will put extra stress on the discs on each side of the fusion, and they will eventually break down putting you right back in the same boat. I would do everything I could not to have surgery. And if surgery becomes the only option, I would look for one of the neurosurgeons who are now doing spinal surgery through a scope, which is much less invasive and much less damaging to the surrounding tissue. The resultant rehab, pain, etc is remarkably easier. Of course, YMMV.

[osbornk]

I would seek a second opinion. Spondylolisthesis does not usually require surgery unless it is a very high grade of slippage. Spinal fusion will put extra stress on the discs on each side of the fusion, and they will eventually break down putting you right back in the same boat. I would do everything I could not to have surgery. And if surgery becomes the only option, I would look for one of the neurosurgeons who are now doing spinal surgery through a scope, which is much less invasive and much less damaging to the surrounding tissue. The resultant rehab, pain, etc is remarkably easier. Of course, YMMV.

I tend to agree. I had 3 friends that had surgery and they had 2 additional surgeries to correct the neighboring discs.

[Ksrob]

I had three disks fused just over a year ago. C-3 thru 5. The only limitation is that I can't bend my neck back very far, such as on a sport bike.

I'm fighting an "issue" with my lower back and two blown disks. I would do every thing possible to not to have the surgery.

HTH,

[2BikeMike]

Looks like a mixed bag at this point. I'm holding out for more response. In the mean time thanks for the replies.

[chfite]

My personal philosophy is to get other opinions and pursue other avenues before resorting to surgery. When I injured my shoulder at work last year, the physical therapy made much improvement. The subsequent MRI showed some damage, and the doctor recommended surgery. When I asked about the results, he admitted that it would probably be better.

In talking to those who have worked in the field of rehabilitation after this "scoping", as it was called, I found that there would be a couple of months of severely limited activity and extensive physical therapy to try to return to the state that I was in before the surgery. I continued with exercising the shoulder, and skipped the surgery.

I still have some discomfort at times, but age brings its own aches and pains. The important thing is that this does not limit my activities any. It is just mildly painful to do some things, such as: reach around my back to touch the opposite shoulder blade.

My focus was on the likelihood that all this surgery and rehabilitation would not make it better. Whenever they cut and it does not work out, you might be stuck.

You still have to decide for yourself.

[bowhunter]

I've put off the surgery for 3 years now.My right leg is not not as strong,but everything else has been ok. Some where down the line it'll have to be done.
But I really don't want to do it!
Hang in there!

[94867]

In my opinion, the decision to fuse a joint should only be done as a last resort. I've heard of cases where a fusion of lumbar vertebra brings immediate but only temporary pain relief, until the discs above and below the fusion "fail" because of: 1) being asked to provide the motion that the fused segments no longer provide, and 2) a return to the less than ideal habits that most of us abuse our spines with. Good luck.

[Bigrider]

I had my L-4, L-5 fused in 1999. And I've been riding ever since. Go through the rehab, and take it slow. Only you will be able to tell. I prefer the forward leaning of the R100RS to the straight up of the R80 RT I own. Occasionaly, a bump in the upright position will give the spine a jar, but I really haven't had a problem riding in the last eight years. Now bending over to latch my boots is a problem.

Dave H
San Antonio, TX

[ultracyclist]

First of all, stop.
Take a deep breath. And think this one through.

The back is a very complex structure, moves in many different combinations of angles and directions with different amounts of forces. It is an engineering marvel.

I neither know your medical history nor am I an MD, but both my wife and I have had back problems for a long time. She has what you have.

First of all, I would go to a physiatrist who specializes in rehab, and the softer tissues of the body. Let that MD refer you to a physical therapist who specializes in backs. After special exercises including streching, pilates and core work, see how you feel. By the way, are you carrying some unwanted weight? What is your lifestyle like? Do you sit hunched over a computer all day? The physiatrist turned my wife's condition around.

If you are still miserable, then let the physiatrist suggest a surgeon whom he/she would want to operate on him/her. If it was my back, I would want to have only a back surgeon and hopefully one who also has a neuro background. Sports medicine MD are usually on the cutting edge of things...no pun intended

Remember, surgery is last resort. Surgery is always successful in that the surgeon usually gets done what has to get done. Whether or not we get the desired results remains to be seen.

If you can make an acceptable recovery without going under the knife, you are ahead of the game.

I have had two surgeons tell me that although I have a material back problem, I am still not a candidate for surgery. I can live with what I have as long as I am aware of how I move, bend, twist, and lift.

If one plans how you are going to attack the twistees, you can in effect do the same thing with the movements in your daily life.

Take another deep breath.

[basketcase]

Mike, have you consulted with a Chiropractor? It might be an entirely differeent approach would relive the pain and correct the misalignment.

In 1997 I was injured in a stupid horseplay accident that moved my shoulder blade, damaged the rotator cuff in my right shoulder, and misaligned a vertebrae in my upper back.

Several shots of cortizone took care of the shoulder, and a half dozen visits to the Chiropractor worked wonders on my back.

I concur with the others who have said "go to surgery as a last resort."

[osbornk]

First of all, stop.
Take a deep breath. And think this one through.

I can live with what I have as long as I am aware of how I move, bend, twist, and lift.

If one plans how you are going to attack the twistees, you can in effect do the same thing with the movements in your daily life.

Take another deep breath.

This is very true! When I severely injured my back in 1968, I was 20 years old. I elected to live with my injuries rather than have the suggested surgery. Being young and "tough", I tried to continue to do many of the things I did before and I also ignored the 45 lb. lifting limit suggested by the doctors. As a result, I had a lot of unnecessry pain.

As I aged, I learned what I could and couldn't do with my back. I also lost weight and started do exercises to strengthen my back muscles. It has helped a lot but I will always have pain.

As Clint Eastwood said in the movies "A man has to know his limitations". It took me years to learn my limitations and realize that I have to think about what I do before I do it.

My brother runs his body shop and farms on the side. He frequently strains, sprains or pulls something that leaves him in pain. I asked him why he refuses to take any pain medications. He said God made pain for a reason. His theory is that if he takes pain medication, it will mast the pain and he risks doing more injury to whatever is hurting. If he does something without medication and it hurts bad enough, he will quit doing it and prevent further injury.

[hlothery]

This is very true! When I severely injured my back in 1968, I was 20 years old. I elected to live with my injuries rather than have the suggested surgery. Being young and "tough", I tried to continue to do many of the things I did before and I also ignored the 45 lb. lifting limit suggested by the doctors. As a result, I had a lot of unnecessry pain.


My brother runs his body shop and farms on the side. He frequently strains, sprains or pulls something that leaves him in pain. I asked him why he refuses to take any pain medications. He said God made pain for a reason. His theory is that if he takes pain medication, it will mast the pain and he risks doing more injury to whatever is hurting. If he does something without medication and it hurts bad enough, he will quit doing it and prevent further injury.

"It hurts when you do that?........don't do that!" Groucho Marx (MD impersonator)

[Motor31]

I have 2 blown disks in the L-3 to L-5 area. I have had cortizone treatment and responded reasonably well to it. My surgeon said that cutting, either by scope or open face is an absolute last resort. She indicated that even with successful surgery I might not have lesser pain or more mobility. I am putting off any invasive procedure as long as I possibly can.

She did state that riding a motorcycle is OK provided I have a full upright posture with no forward lean if at all possible. Stop frequently and loosen up, doing stretching exercises as per the physical therapist. Since then I've switched from a K75RT to an R1150RT. It seems like a good move so far. Besides, the wife likes the new bikes seat and room.

Good luck with yours and make the decision based one main consideration. Will it help and avoid paralysis. You won't ride much of the vertibra shift and pinch the cord while unstable. Do get a second and third opinion then decide.

[vmpando]

Howdy,
I am a gal but I have had two cervical fusions as a result of motorcyle accident and ... well, getting older I suppose. Would I do it again? It's hard to remember the pain that drove you to the decision in the first place so I have my doubts. Since the surgery, I have had five facet injections and two cervical epidurals. Things seem to be balancing out but a big part of that is resigning myself to a certain amount of pain, meds, and numbness in my arms when I ride. I have cruise control on my bike so I can shake my arms out. But it's been a tough hall (took four years to ride again). My advice, do everything you can physical therapy wise before you contemplate surgery. The docs are all wiz kids until after the surgery and then they seem to all say, "oh yeah, that is a side effect of this surgery." Ah shucks, just one of those things you forget to tell people about.

All that said, you might be lucky but I promise there will be some tough times ahead for awhile. Good luck!:wave

[2BikeMike]

Sorry for the delays guys, but I've been out of commission for a while. I had surgery on the 26th of March and from all indications it looks like this was the right thing for me to do. It really was not my first plan of attack but, it was the only remaining thing left to do besides living with back pain the rest of my life and that to me was not an option. I appreciate the many responses that I received and I really considered all that you guys opined. At this point I have a 3-4 month recovery period before I can resume normal activities, so I'm not out of the woods yet. In the mean time the bikes are resting up in the garage and are anxiously awaiting to be let loose.:banghead

[Motor31]

Mike,

Please keep us advised. Since future surgery is a definite possibility for me I am certainly interested in how you do. :(

[Markst1]

Well I guess that I can weigh in on this, having just had a cervical fusion 10 weeks ago.
As an anesthesiologist, I spend my professional life protecting patients from surgeons, and I was reluctant to "lay down before the knife." I see everyday what happens in the OR and know all of the potential complications and untoward effects, and I am a bit paranoid.
That said, I was having a serious problem with my neck. At age 52, I have always been pretty healthy. Last summer (after doing a lot of heavy lifting building a fence) I developed significant numbness and weakness in my left hand, along with neck pain. Tried physical therapy (including cervical traction) with no improvement. Eventually graduated from plain film X-rays to an MRI which showed marked cervical spine degeneration from C2 down to T1. (Those can't be my films, there must be some mistake.) After several long talks with a spine surgeon who I know and respect, I decided to opt for surgery. I had tried more conservative treatment (extensive PT and epidural steroid injections) with no improvement. I could see the muscles in my hand atrophy over months. It was clear to me that this was not going to get better by itself. The disks were ruptured and there were large bone spurs. There was apparently lots of pressure on the nerve roots and mild pressure on the spinal cord. Doing nothing seemed like a bad option. I need two good hands for work, playing guitar, and all the other things I do. I really didn't want things to get worse, or even stay the same.
There are few guarrentes with any surgery, and fewer with spine surgery. My surgeon told me that ~33% of patients improve with surgery, 33% show no change, and ~ 33% do worse or have some complications. Being an optimist, and seeing a chance for improvement, I decided to have surgery. I also figured that if I did nothing, I would only get worse eventually (I had no improvement over six months of constant symptoms).
My surgeon recommended a three level anterior spinal fusion which involves removing the discs (in my case C56, C67, and C7T1), increasing the space between the vertebral bodies, replacing the discs with bone graft and screwing a plate on to hold things together untill anll the bones fuse. The surgery itself wasn't so bad. I spent one night in the hospital. Pain not too bad. Spent the next 6 weeks at home recovering. Percocet kept me pretty comfortable. I had an immediate improvement in the strength of my hand, not back to baseline but marked imrovement. Full recovery of strength will take time (months). Discomfort has continued to improve since the surgery, and at 10 weeks, I have about the same level of pain as before surgery. I am doing lots of PT to strengthen the neck muscles and prevent future problems in the area not surgically repaired (C2 to C5). I am really trying improve my posture.
One complication from the surgery (my surgeon did warn me about this) is that the nerves to the larynk (voice box) were stretched and damaged by retraction to get exposure to the spine from the front. I have been hoarse, and had some problems swallowing (especially liquids). This is improving steadily, and I expect it to normal in a few more months.
If facing this type of problem I recommed exausting all conservative measures (alieve, PT, rest) before considering surgery. But, as a last resort, surgery seems to have worked for me. Make sure that you are comfortable with your surgeon. Unless the spinal cord is really getting compressed there is little urgency for this type of surgery. Shop around and make sure that you trust the advice that your surgeon is giving you.
On the very positive side, I was out in the garage today check the tire pressures in the bikes after the long (and seemingly never ending) Cleveland winter. Tire pressures were right where they were when I put the bikes up in November. I think that I should be good to ride as the weather warms up a bit more. I am sure that I'll take it slow at first, and probably favor the GS with it's more upright seating positioning and smooth ride (love those Ohlins shocks) as compared to the /6 with low bars and 32 year old suspension.
Good luck and good riding,
Theo Marks

'74 R75/6
'01 R1150GS

[hlothery]

Hope all of you guys heal completely and return to your lives. One reply to the comments by Markst1. In our practice, we are now using a Neurosurgeon who does necks and backs primarily through a scope. This requires much less damage from stretching of healthy surrounding tissues, and much easier rehab. It is cutting edge, but I really recommend anyone facing future spine surgery investigating it as a desireable option. Best wishes,

Hugh

PS - he does carpal tunnels this way also, and it takes about 15 minutes with local anesthesia.

[2BikeMike]

Markst1, certainly glad to hear that you are progressing so nicely. Sounds like youn and your dr. discussed every thing thoroughly before surgery, but being in your line of work you probably had a leg up on most of us. I am 3 1/2 post surgery and by all indications I will recover very nicely. My main concern was getting rid of the back pain and that was accomplished. Before surgery, I would wake in the morning and the first thing to enter my mind was how painful my back felt. This morning it occured to me that I have not felt any pain at all for maybe 2 weeks now:dance believe me that is a good feeling. I still am not able to ride yet, I tried Mon. to get my Dr. to let me mow the yard, but it is still to soon. Knowing what I know now, I believe I made the right choice.:dance

[Markst1]

Mike,
Glad to hear that things are progressing well. My advice is to be patient and be diligent with the PT. Healing from this type of surgery is a gradual process. I know that in my own case, I can feel a steady improvement week by week.
Regarding Hugh's suggestion to look for a surgeon doing minimally invasive surgery, I would be wary. This may be appropriate for a simple laminectomy, but some types of surgery are best done in a conventional fashion. Some can only be done conventionally. I don't know of any surgeon who could do a three level cervical fusion through a scope. If the said that they could, I would be suspicious. Also, surgeons using the newest minimally invasive techniques may not have the depth of experience that those doing things a more conventional way might have. Oftentimes it is better to make a real incision in order to see and have full access to the surgical site.

Good luck,
Theo Marks

[BuddingGeezer]

I too had anterior cervical fusion C4-C5 and a bulging disk C5-C6. Hurt my neck playing HS football in 1968. In 1990 The disk ruptured and surgeon said probably do to getting my head jammed up my rear many years earlier. I had lost feeling in left arm and 80% of my grip. I could not even stand wearing a hooded jacket. 1991 I had surgery. Surgeon recommended no PT. I worked for ALCOA and they retired me at the age of 40. I hurt 24/7 for 6 years, then if I did anything physical. 1999 had a coronary artery stent, started walking and lost the 50 lbs I had gained while hurt. Started lifting light weights and built the muscles of my neck back. I have even built a small house last year by myself.

I have lumbar arthritis and the seating position of the K100Lt doesn't hurt my low back like feet forward cruiser did, however after 4 or 5 hours on the K bike with a helmet my neck will hurt and left arm problems. Not often, but occasionally I squid it. I have a rather hard core exercise program for that. I can tell when it is going to rain, though.

My cardiologist says I am in the top 5% of my age group in fitness.

Would I have gotten better, if not for an almost heart attack and lifestyle change???? Who knows.

[advenbob]

In July 1997, upon returning from a m/c trip to Ill on my HD, I was working in the back yard and moved the wrong way. In 24 hrs I was almost immobile. In Nov of 97 I had surgery to remove the disc between L5 and S1. I was back riding by May of 98 and haven't stopped yet.

Traded the HD for my first BMW in Feb 00 and have accrued 300k + BMW miles since. LT,GS,GT, and now a GSA.

Back problems are as varied and the remedies are all over the board. The surgery procedures today are better than when I had mine. Instead of a scar about 2-3 inches long, they now use two small holes, one for the camera and the other for a tool that nibbles the disc away. You can be up and about in weeks sometimes.

Visited a number of doctors, but the best was a neurosurgeon, who ultimatly performed the surgery.

Have back exersises to do (don't always get to them) that help a lot.

best wishes

bob:wave

[2BikeMike]

It has been almost 6 months since I had spinal fusion surgery,(it sounds worse than it is) and at this point I must say that it has been an overwhelming success!:clap I returned to riding in late June and have been undergoing physical therapy for 3 months now and I feel "mavalous darling" (to quote Billy Crystal) there is of course some tightness and stiffness to contend with, but no pain!! In the early stages of making the decision to have surgery, one of my biggest adversaries was a four letter word known as "FEAR". "FEAR" did not want me to take the chance for a better life. "FEAR" did not want me to risk being alive and feeling great. "FEAR" wanted to keep me worring about whether or not the surgery would be successful, even after the Doc gave me an 80% chance of success. "FEAR" wanted to keep me waking up each day feeling afraid and depressed. "FEAR" wanted to suck the life out of me. Today it is with great joy that I say " fear" lost. :clap With great support and encouraging words from my spouse, family, friends, some of you guys and :bow God Himself, I have achieved a tremendous victory in my life! It is a great feeling to wake up and be anxious for the day. To actually be able to make plans for things and activities that I enjoy doing. To be able to make new plans for motorcycle trips that I had to cancel. To actually think "what if I get to the Cabot Trail and my final drive goes out?" ( my apologies to the FD posts) It is said that our lifes are shaped by our circumstances and our experiences. I find that to be true. I hope that life will always find me grateful and thankful to God for his provision. Let's Ride.:clap

[Rapid_Roy]

Glad to hear that. You are riding more than me.

[Isaacs]

You did not state how old you are, but I can tell you this if you are near my age of 59 healing is a long road.

I have had one surgery on five of the vertebra in my lower back three years ago. Now I am being told that a second surgery is required to remove pressure form nerves leading to my legs. The surgery will require seven vertebras to be fused to reduce the compression on the nerve channels. If this would end the pain and numbness I would go ahead even though I will be bed ridden for four to six months, but as in the first surgery: NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED YOUR RECOVERY MAY DIFFER.

Get a second and/or third opinion, good luck.:dunno

[osbornk]

If facing this type of problem I recommed exausting all conservative measures (alieve, PT, rest) before considering surgery.Theo Marks
'74 R75/6
'01 R1150GS

I agree with you! As I have said, I have been battling back pain since 1968 due to injury to 5 lumbar vertebra. Surgery was considered but ruled out at the time due to the prognosis and the potential of being paralized. In recent years I have been in misery with back pain and retired early because of the constant pain.

I recently went to my family doctor and told her about my challenges with back pain. I told her I had tried almost every medication I could find and nothing seemed to help. She recommended and gave me a perscription for Tramadol (generic of Ultram). She recommended I take it with one Tylenol and with my normal Naproxen (Aleve). The medicine has been a miracle for me. My back hurts less and I can function better than I have in 20-25 years. I wonder why no other doctor has ever recommended this pain medication before now. It has been out long enough that it is available as a generic. What works for one sometimes doesn't always work for others but I'm one happy camper.