Please help me valuate/evaluate a bike

[DrEvil]

I am consiedring the purchase of a 74 R90/6 and had some questions of what range of prices I should be considering.

The good:
- Engine reacently fully rebuilt by shop. Only about 1k miles on it.
- Carbs fully rebuilt by shop
- Splines repaired 12K miles ago
- Master cylinder reacently rebuilt
- Paint is fairly reacent
- Frame was powdercoated
- Better kick stand
- increased capacity oil pan
- Gauges redone by Palo Alto
- New wiring harness
- Current owner is a real nice guy

The not as good:
- 93,000 miles
- No fuel filters on the fuel lines to the newly rebuilt carbs
- Left petcock is frozen. It sounds like crud in there.
- Tranny shifter leaking a little oil
- Rear drive leaking oil
- Rear drive shaft leaking oil
- Oil pan leaking oil
- Air tubes installed incorrectly. Both are cockeyed.
- Has a fairing installed with a pretty substantial 4in crack in it and a smaller crack.
- No pump or tools (he may have these, I just sent an email to ask)
- Clutch was way loose. It engauges only at the very bottom of travel.

Things that I am concerened about:
-Trannies last average 50-75K, this one has not been gone over.
-Corrosion in the carbs, petcocks from tank lining because of no filters
-Clutch condition due to looseness. New clutch needed?
-Air tubes on wrong = crap getting in and messing things up
-Oil leaking form oil pan on newly rebuilt engine (might just be a bad seal?)

Am I on the right track of thinking? Am I being too analytical? Any tips and or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I have no reason what so ever to think that the current owner is trying to pull anything at all. If anything, any info here may help him better sell his bike (if not to me, then to someone).

Thanks for all of the continuous help!

[Motor31]

With all the things installed incorrectly plus the oil leaks from so many locations I'd pass on this bike. You might just be looking at a whole new rebuild just to fix the hack job somebody else did.

[HankPfister]

The bike has a LOT of issues. Despite the "rebuilt motor" its gonna cost quite a bit to get it in top shape, especially if you won't be doing a lot of it yourself. I hope he is asking under $1500.

[Isamemon]

sounds like a fair parts bike

and what kind of shop rebuilt the motor and carb and then took short cuts like no filters or ignoring a clutch

I have a wood shop, and have rebuilt motors on cars, does that mean I can say shop built motor

sounds like a lot of work ahead of you

[Isamemon]

sounds like a fair parts bike

and what kind of shop rebuilt the motor and carb and then took short cuts like no filters or ignoring a clutch

I have a wood shop, and have rebuilt motors on cars, does that mean I can say shop built motor

sounds like a lot of work ahead of you :sick

[Bokrijder]

I'd check the reputation of the shop which did the work. It's possible that the owner removed and installed the engine. This could explain the sloppy visual defects, while not condemning the overhaul. This could also explain the clutch situation. If there is a BMW shop in the area, have the bike evaluated. Buying a vintage bike is a real wild card venture.

Motard

[DrEvil]

Thanks for the replies so far. It is my impression that the owner installed the engine into the frame and that he was the one that took everything off of the fram to have it powder coated. The carbs and master cylinder were redone by the small independent BMW dealership that the bike has been located at for sale for several months. The shop that rebuilt the engine is Stan's Cycle shop in Doylestown, PA.

I attached a pic to show some of the things that I was talking about: no filters, incorrectly installed air tubes, the petcock is corroded and wont move.

Keep the comments comming! Thanks.

[DrEvil]

Ok, I got some answers back from the owner. Tell me if this changes your opinions on anything. I truely appreciate your feedback in helping me decide what is reasonable on this bike.

- He does not have the tool kit, he is looking for the tire pump

Regarding the petcock:
- He says that they were both rebuilt and are very tight. (I told him that left was definetly seized)

Regarding the paper work on the rebuilt stuff:
- He has the bill for the engine work
- No bill yet for the master cylinder rebuild as it was done where the bike is on consignment.
- No carb papers as it was done in 05

Regarding front fairing:
- Didnt know it was cracked. I sent him a pic. He thinks it may heve been due to a tie dwon when he trailerd it there.

Regarding the air tubes:
- He said that they were always a problem, even for the previous owner they never fit right.
- He believes that there is no air leak, though.

Regarding the lack of filters:
- He sais that there are screens up in the tank on the petcocks.

Regarding the leaking oil pan:
- He thinks that is just needs to be retightened since there was no gasket sealant used when installed.

Regarding clutch cable looseness:
- He said the clutch has about 5k miles on it and just need adjustment

Regarding the leaky final drive and shaft:
- He said that these got new gaskets when reassembled and may just need to be retightened.

Regarding the tranny:
- He said the first owner had the trans repaired due to a shifter spring breaking at about 80,000 miles. (So someone was in there with in the last 13K miles)

I havent posted any definitive pics because the owner is a memebr here and a nice guy and I wanted his permission to do so first. As soon as he says he is cool with it I can give you more definitive photos of the bike as a whole. Until then here are some other pics of what I was talking about.

These are the cracks inthe fairing.

[DrEvil]

This is a pic of the clutch cable play.

[DrEvil]

I am not a professional photographer ;)

Leaking rear shaft.

[DrEvil]

The oil from the tranny. Underneath the tranny was dry, but it was the only dry spot under the bike.

[robsryder]

You asked about the value and wisdom of purchasing a well used airhead.

If it were me (and assuming that I had room in the garage), I would be happy to purchase this bike for $1000. I would not much factor in earlier work claimed to have been done. I would assume that I have to completely go thru the entire bike to clean, replace (where necessary), lubricate, and adjust most everything.

I have done this for a couple of bikes and I find the process enjoyable. Thus, my labor doesn't factor into the "cost" of the bike. If you are going to have a shop do the work or if such work is not "fun" then the cost will escalate quite rapidly.

If you are looking for a reliable, ready to ride bike, this might not be the right one for you. There are places, such as Re-Psycle BMW that will sell you an airhead (shipped to you, if necessary) that are ready to ride and I think that some sort of warranty is offered. The bikes sold by Re-Psycle are priced accordingly (i.e., not the bargain basement type prices). See:
http://www.re-psycle.com/pre_owned_list.asp

[DrEvil]

Thanks for the link. Your comment points out an important factor that I have not made clear. I would have no problem doing said repairs and adjustments to this bike, so like you I am not considering this into the cost as I would if a shop were to do it. That being said, the price does need to be reflexive. Currently the asking price is $2500, but I believe the owner to be resonable and feel confident that this price can be brought down to what has been discussed here.

I definetly do not mind, and actually enjoy doing the less invasive (no engine internals) stuff in my precious free time (medical student). I have rebuilt two K bikes, one R bike and several old 914 Porsches in the past so I am luckily not a complete lay person. But, I know enough to know I dont know it all. :D

[Boxerkuh]

No way for $2,500. The oil leaks may just be a bad washer, but it may as well be much more. My bike is not leaking that much and it is driving me nuts. I would not bank on any of the prior work and take it down and go through it item by item. That way you know it is done right and will be reliable. The explanations for everything are funny. An excuse or rationale for everything. It will cost a bunch in just parts to put this 33 year old bike back together and a lot of the rubber will need to be replaced. Sounds like a total rebuild to me. I would pay accordingly. Do you have the room, time and money?

[DrEvil]

I agree that $2500 is high for what I saw today when I checked it out. As for the engine rebuild, if he has reciepts then it would be a non issue, right? He said that there is only about 1000 miles on the rebuild. If he comes down on his price then this bike would be perfect for me as it would be a great base to start with to make it mine (I would have money left to enhance it as I wish). The stuff I noted is doable and I have a garage. The time I am planing on investing I do have and the price will dictate the money part. I will not go below what I will be considering a fair price because if I did then I can not afford to buy it only to fix it up and still be left with a 93K mile bike.

[Braddog]

While I do not have a long history of airhead experience, I have purchased 2 airheads over the past 6 years, both '77 models, and have a few comments. Just my opinion...

- If maintained OK, 93,000 isn't necessarily a concern. I bought my R100S with 123K on it, which included a very thorough maintenance history. It had been modified, it had been painted, etc. I've since had to replace the clutch, and replace the coils, but it's still a very solid bike.

- I wouldn't get caught up in the fuel line filter thing, unless the tank looks like it's peeling on the inside. In other words if the tank looks clean, then inline filters aren't a big deal. I only have them on one of my bikes, and don't have any issues. If you think it's a big deal, you can always go to your local auto parts store, and pick them up for a couple bucks each.

- I bought my '77 RS from a guy that talked about how he and his brother were into bikes, fixing bikes, etc. The RS belonged to this brother, who had owned it for several years. Basically, they only fixed stuff when it absolutely broke. I've pretty much went through the whole thing now with the help of a trusted mechanic. It's now a veeeerrry sweet ride.

Bottom line for me is that, based on purchase price, and investment in repairs, I probably couldn't break even on either one of my airheads if I sold them today. On the other hand, I have 2 very sweet running motorcycles, both paid for, to ride.

As far as price is concerned for this R90, tough call. $2500 seems high, considering that you WILL have to investment some dough to get it into shape. It seems the current owner's records are a bit sketchy, which may or may not be a reason for concern. I guess it depends on how much money you're willing to spend, and how long you would keep this motorcycle.

Good Luck.

[DrEvil]

Brad,
You seem to be of the mind set that I am regarding these bikes. I do not want to sell the bike ever (if possible). I want to get it for a good price and, like you did with yours, make it my own. Price is gonna be an interesting factor. I suck at negotiating. I do not try to bilk folks out of their goods for less money. I basically state my opinion in the most respectful way, let them make an offer, counter offer, and either buy or walk. Right now the owner has all of the comments from me and is thinking on it from the best that I can tell. I know he has some $$ tied up into the bike for the repairs, but it is still not worth the current asking price. Having a shop do work on a bike like this costs $$ that will not likely be fully recovered, as you stated in your post regarding your bikes. I do not have shops do anything other than machine work which keeps my cost down.

[Motor31]

The pictures and information regarding the bike that you posted have done nothing to make me change my earlier opinion. If anything it made it more solid in advising you to pass this one up. If you really want it, have at it but keep in mind that you are buying a project bike right now. If you are OK with that, have fun. If you want something to ride economically right now, this is not your bike.

[Isamemon]

looking at the pictures
I still think it might make a good project bike or parts bike, but I have seen better condition running bikes ( that were fixer uppers) on e-bay in On magazine and even craigs list for a grand or 1200 .
sure they needed help, but what your looking at does too
if some of the issues are just minor adjustment ( clutch) etc why isnt he/they doing minor adjustments and end everyones concern
maybe you can offer to adjust the clutch for him ( a few minutes) and see if it really does help
sure its winter, but if the bike has been selling for several months, that might be another clue to its value

I llike many others have the mind set of, Im keeping this thing forever , so what I really have invested is not an issue for me

[crazydrummerdude]

You're buying a fixer-upper. You should pay for a fixer-upper. $1500 tops.

I can't help but wonder why the owner wouldn't bother just fixing the air-tube/clutch "problems" before trying to sell it. Maybe this is insight to the fact there may be other I-wonder-why-they-didn't-do-that problems.

[DrEvil]

Hey all,
Thanks for all of the feedback on this bike. I have let the owner know what was discussed here and geve him the link. I havent heard anything back from him yet, but I definetly asked for a price reduction based on my own feelings and on teh opinions of the poeple here. We shall see what happens. Its snowing now so I can wait ;)

[6659]

I bought a 1975 R90/6 with only 16k on it. Got it for a cheap price due to the number of missing/broken parts. As of now I have already doubled my price buying on Ebay and still need mufflers and clamps. This one was in storage for many years but the engine turns over by hand and the only rust was on the mufflers, spokes, and gas cap. I still have not put gas in it to see if it will start. It needed a starter relay which I have yet to install. The paint is still decent it should look pretty good when it is finished. I will try to post a picture. After I finish it I will probably put it up for sale and look for another project for next winter.

[Rev_Eddie]

You've stated that the bike isn't worth the asking price.

That's simple enough to address: Find another bike in the same condition for less money and buy that one.

To everyone who advises you that the bike is "only worth XX, etc" find out where they know of similar condition bikes in your area actually available in that price range.

Just because someone tells you that they'd only pay XX doesn't actually mean that you can get one at that price.

A non-running, sat-in-the-garage complete BMW anything is worth $1500.

Sounds like the one you're looking at is a running, ready-to-go machine (albeit with a few items needing addressing) and it's available right at the start of the riding season.

The misc oil leaks in the bad column can be a matter of gasket or simple washer replacement. A clutch needing adjustment isn't a big deal---for that matter, neither is a clutch needing replacement if you're planning on keeping the bike awhile.

If there's verification of the things listed in the good column, it's a $2500 bike.

Some owners simply aren't that knowledgable of bikes, and when they sell
it they just answer questions the best they can. It doesn't mean that they're hiding anything, or that it's a bad bike. It just is what it is.....some guy selling a 33 year old used bike.

Eddie

[DrEvil]

Well, I may be new here, but I am not at all a noob to the BMW bikes and such. the question I posed here was for the benefit of seeing if my feelings on theis bike were right. I admit that most were more stringent than I in their evaluations, but it gave good food for thought and was well appreciated.

In my area there are exactly 0 bikes for sale considering it is winter and ther is a fresh 6" of snow on the ground. I was hoping to pick up a reasonably priced bike over the winter that would require minor work to be whole. This bike is a candidate, but so far not at that price.

Why? You mentioned that if the owner has paper work and all of these things are easily fixed then it is worth the money. Generally I might agree but for one fact, the owner is the one who put the bike together. These over sights of maintenence may seem like nothing, but they may (I say may) be prelude to other issues yet to be found in things not tightened. This says nothing about hte owners character, only that these things were found and are worthy to give one pause. If what I listed in the bad column does not discourage you from feeling that this bike is "running, ready-to-go machine (albeit with a few items needing addressing)" then I respectfully disagree as these things may just be the tip of the iceburg af things needing to be addressed. I appears that many here share this sentiment.

The part about "Some owners simply aren't that knowledgable of bikes, and when they sell it they just answer questions the best they can. It doesn't mean that they're hiding anything, or that it's a bad bike. It just is what it is.....some guy selling a 33 year old used bike." I hope does not mean that I have come off in ANY way being acusatory of the current owner having some devious plan. I clearly stated that the guy selling it is a good guy and has been very open in talking to me. I even offered to let him use my pics and critricizms to help address these issues if he should want to sell to someone else. I also stated that I am not interested in lowballing anyone. I want to pay what the market feels its worth. If the owner is not open to that then tha is ok and I harbor no ill will. As well, assuming he knows nothing about bikes and knowing that he is the one the put it together do not add to the value and only perpetuate the concern of other things needing attention, IMHO.

The facts so far as I know them: There is paperwork for the engine rebuild. None for the master cylinder rebuild, non for the carb rebuild. The current owner has only had the bike for less than 5k miles (got it at around 88K now has 92 and change), in that time it has had an engine problem which necessitated rebuilding and since rebuild it has only had 1000 miles put on it (and now its leaking). The clutch was reported to have been replaced 5K miles ago, but no doccumentation of that (minor issue, but still worth consideration). The owner put the bike back together. Considering all of these facts and the issues addressed in my previous posts I do not feel that anyone would be unresonable for being wary and communicating such concerns to the owner. There are a lot of items here that require faith and trust. Speaking as one who has been screwed in the past by a nice owner who didnt know any better and thought that he was being fair, I believe that I have been fair and not out of line. If he decides to negotiate with me then great. If not then I wish him well.

I do not believe, for one minute, that he is intended on screwing anyone over. I just wanted to sample the market opinion and get some feedback to think about.

Did any of my posts come off as judgmental, accusatory, or otherwise malice laden? If so it was not my intention and I am open to hear any criticizms citing such.

[Rev_Eddie]

Hey DrEvil,

I didn't think any of your posts were out of line.

My point were that:
1) if you feel the bike is priced too high, see what else is available for less.
In my experience, R90/6's with the items in the "good column" you describe
aren't plentiful in the sub-$2500 bracket.

2) Asking advice of a group of people on the internet who aren't familiar with the bike you're looking at or the sales market in your area will not always generate information useful to your endeavor. A person utilizing any such free advice typically does so at their peril.

That said, you're the consumer.
It's your dollars on the line, so your vote is really the only one that matters.

Eddie

[AntonLargiader]

You have two things here: a known BMW shop did the engine work and the owner did everything else. So I would assume the engine is fine. If the owner isn't so technically savvy then then you're going to see things like the clutch and misassembled air tubes. None of that is a big deal to me. Carbs are dead simple.

I'd be attracted to the freshly coated frame and fresh engine work (both of those represent actual dollars) and would be glad for the chance to do the small fix-up stuff myself. You know far more about this bike than you would about some eBay bike. Buying an Airhead that is guaranteed to need nothing at all will be more than $2500.

The messiest possibility is that the lining of the tank is gone. This means stripping it out and recoating it, and possibly repainting the outside. Open it up and take a look inside. If it's smooth red, you're fine. If it's blotchy brown, you're in for some work.

[DrEvil]

Anton, you make some good points and the reasons you mention are the reasons that I am still considering this bike. I am still waiting to hear back form the owner. Maybe I'll call him tomorrow and chat.

P.S. I like your page:thumb

[tuber1]

Thanks for the replies so far. It is my impression that the owner installed the engine into the frame and that he was the one that took everything off of the fram to have it powder coated. The carbs and master cylinder were redone by the small independent BMW dealership that the bike has been located at for sale for several months. The shop that rebuilt the engine is Stan's Cycle shop in Doylestown, PA.

I attached a pic to show some of the things that I was talking about: no filters, incorrectly installed air tubes, the petcock is corroded and wont move.

Keep the comments comming! Thanks.

I have patronized Stan's shop in the past, and I would say his work is fine, but how much of an engine re build?? that can be very expensive nowadays. Air tubes are hard to re fit, but not being on correctly, and no fuel line filters and missing clamps is just plain sloppy...my /6 never looked that bad

based on the prices mentioned here, I'll have to jack up the price on my '83 R100..

[DrEvil]

The owner said that he dropped the engine off when he had it out and it had everything done that it needed, even the heads redone for unleaded. I am not sure if he has just a recipt or an actual bill with services listed.

I just heard back from him, he has been busy and has not been able to read this thread yet.

[GSTom]

I can't help but wonder why the owner wouldn't bother just fixing the air-tube/clutch "problems" before trying to sell it.

I have been on that side of things on a couple of vehicles I owned- then sold.
In one case, I lacked the know how at the time to solve a moderately simple problem. In another case, I was just tired of the vehicle and didn't want to mess with it anymore. In both cases, I was willing to come down on the price to a level that was fair for the buyer because of the problems that remained.

[R90S]

You know, I would have gone as far as reading "1974 R90/6" and passed over it.

Cheers,
Jon-Lars
Beverly, WA

[DrEvil]

Why? What do you have against that model? Something I should know?

[R90S]

The early years were not good for the /6. The '74 was particularly rife. This subject comes up on occasion in the Airheads chat group, and this was the consensus among the experienced heads.

I'd keep looking, for a '76 to '78 airhead.

Cheers,
Jon-Lars

'76 R90S
'77 R100RS
'78 R100S
'81 R80G/S

[JETHRIDGE]

The early years were not good for the /6. The '74 was particularly rife. This subject comes up on occasion in the Airheads chat group, and this was the consensus among the experienced heads.

I'd keep looking, for a '76 to '78 airhead.

Cheers,
Jon-Lars

'76 R90S
'77 R100RS
'78 R100S
'81 R80G/S

I Had A 74 R90/6 That I put 80,000 miles on and the only problem i had was the tranny output shaft went out around 60k. Not likley to find one with 70/80 k miles that the output shaft has not been repaced.
Jack Ethridge
Ocala Fl