Why all the maintenance?

[JimKane]

Is something wrong with BMW motorcycles that they must be maintained so frequently or is it a leftover from the old days when things fell apart on the side of the road? I was going over the maintenance chart for my Jeep and found that in 140,000 miles I had done less maintenance than that required on a BMW in 36,000 miles. What is wrong with this picture? How many of you follow the maintenance schedule for your automobiles? Very few if any would be my guess.

The basic maintenance for an OFF ROAD Jeep, which typically operates in a very harsh environment, suggests inspecting lights, belts, hoses, tires, wheel weights and changing oil,filter, differential and Xfer case fluids - 3000 to 5000 mi.
(on road intervals are even greater)

~ Replace air filter every 12,000 to 24,000 miles (BMW 6000 mi)

~ Replace fuel filter every 24,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW 12,000-24,000 mi)

~ Cooling system flush and refill every 40,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW every 2 yrs)

Are you getting the idea. Other than oil changes and inspections, service intervals are much greater than those of BMW. Either we spend too much time maintaining that which doesn't need that level of maintenance OR the BMW product is inferior (and I don't believe that to be the case).
It may be a means of limiting their liability for warranty work and/or push more work to the dealers. Whatever the reason, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a sound maintenance philosophy. Too much wrenching is a bad as too little.

[GlobalRider]

How many of you follow the maintenance schedule for your automobiles? Very few if any would be my guess.

I do and I perform it sooner than recommended. Its only my time, a few bottles of lubes and some filters.

BTW, 140,000 miles on your JEEP is nothing to get excited over. Thats low miles even for 4 cylinder passenger cars.

[DADODIRT]

If ya don't like working on it, go get a Honda.....

[RandallIsland]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a sound maintenance philosophy. Too much wrenching is a bad as too little.

I hate paying someone to do work on my bike. It's not just the cost, because if I do it, it gets done right. Mostly, I enjoy it. And unlike jeeps there is a peace of mind that is needed for when you drive twice as fast as a jeep, which I think is necessary when I pass said jeep. :ha :stick
Murphy had a few laws that were laid down in my paths of youth. I love Murphy, but thats because I have a spare clutch cable under the seat.:brow

[Belquar]

I think being proactive with your bike is a good thing. Something fails at 80 mph on a car and you can probably coast to the shoulder and get out and scratch your head about it.

Something fails on the bike you might not be so lucky and get your head scratched for you by the road, other cars, trees, guardrails etc.

YMMV

[PGlaves]

Is something wrong with BMW motorcycles that they must be maintained so frequently or is it a leftover from the old days when things fell apart on the side of the road? I was going over the maintenance chart for my Jeep and found that in 140,000 miles I had done less maintenance than that required on a BMW in 36,000 miles. What is wrong with this picture? How many of you follow the maintenance schedule for your automobiles? Very few if any would be my guess.

The basic maintenance for an OFF ROAD Jeep, which typically operates in a very harsh environment, suggests inspecting lights, belts, hoses, tires, wheel weights and changing oil,filter, differential and Xfer case fluids - 3000 to 5000 mi.
(on road intervals are even greater)

~ Replace air filter every 12,000 to 24,000 miles (BMW 6000 mi)

~ Replace fuel filter every 24,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW 12,000-24,000 mi)

~ Cooling system flush and refill every 40,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW every 2 yrs)

Are you getting the idea. Other than oil changes and inspections, service intervals are much greater than those of BMW. Either we spend too much time maintaining that which doesn't need that level of maintenance OR the BMW product is inferior (and I don't believe that to be the case).
It may be a means of limiting their liability for warranty work and/or push more work to the dealers. Whatever the reason, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a sound maintenance philosophy. Too much wrenching is a bad as too little.

Air filters last 24K easy - maybe 36 depending on how much dirt/gravel/barley field you ride in.

Fuel filters last 24K or 10 miles depending on when you get a load of water and crud from your favorite neighborhood gas station. Always have a spare handy!

Oil at 6K is not unusual. Ditto filter.

Antifreeze every 2 years is normal for aluminum block, aluminum head engines with "normal" anti-freeze. Some brands of coolant now are "extended interval." Read the bottle and decide if you trust that manufacturer's coolant warranty.

Brake fluid - almost nobody changes their brake fluid every year or two in their cars. But a wheel caliper for my Ford is about $45. Lots more for a Brembo on a BMW so brake fluid is cheap.

BMW also changes things from time to time. Ask your dealer for the latest checklist cheat-sheet for your model. It might be different than your book if your bike is more than a year or two old.

[dlearl476]

What is wrong with this picture? How many of you follow the maintenance schedule for your automobiles? Very few if any would be my guess.

It costs around $120 for an oil change in a Porsche 911. I do it myself for 1/4 of that, but still, less than a $10,000+ rebuild. It costs $1500 to replace the timing belt in a 968 every 40K-50K, and around $10,000 to rebuild an engine. Yes, I follow the maintenance schedule on my cars, religiously. (My 911 has 155,000 miles and runs/drives like new)



~ Replace air filter every 12,000 to 24,000 miles (BMW 6000 mi)

~ Replace fuel filter every 24,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW 12,000-24,000 mi)

~ Cooling system flush and refill every 40,000 to 100,000 miles (BMW every 2 yrs)



Considering the quantities and sizes involved, that makes perfect sense to me:

Porsche gas filter 3.5" X 6" vs BMW filter. What 1" X 2" at best?

Porsche air fllter 12" X 14" vs BMW?

Cooling system? Well, I think my 968 has three gallons of coolant...BMW? Two pints, maybe?

Brake fluid...I quart vs 2-3 oz. (I change them both annually, regardless)

[Oldhway]

The engines in most modern (well sort of for a boxer) motorcycles have a much higher specific output than in a modern automobile. The horsepower per CC and the RPM's a bike operates at are significantly higher than most cars (we're talking jeep, chevy ford, etc. here. The Porsche and Acura type stuff are obviously more high tech but I believe the bike is still ahead in these categories). The amazing performance of these engines comes at a price but Paul Glaves is right, it's not as excessive as it initially appears. Besides, I've always found working on my bike, doing the regular maintanence, to be part of the rider/bike relationship and I enjoy it. It also adds to my confidence when I'm on a ride. :bikes

[Motorradfahrer]

This is a motorcycle not a car. Can't compare a motorcycle and car maintenance. Try comparing your Jeep with a BMW automobile.

[lionheart33]

Just for kicks why not look at the maintenance schedule for commercial planes. Maintenance schedules have less to do with quality and more to do with the risk and consequence of system failures.

Another factor is engineered obsolescence. If a system is designed to last 10,000 hours of operation with maintenance, you do the maintenance to get the minimum 10,000 hours of use. If a system is designed to get 1,000 hours of use regardless of the amount of maintenance, you don't do maintenance and plan on replacment.

My guess is that the engineers at BMW know what needs to be done to minimize the risk of system failures and have designed a maintenance schedule to maximize the useful life of the systems in their bikes. I am sure the Jeep engineers have done the same, we just hope they were not over-riden by the accountants.

[GSfornow]

This is a motorcycle not a car. Can't compare a motorcycle and car maintenance. Try comparing your Jeep with a BMW automobile.

More to the point how about comparing BMW motorcycles to other brands of motorcycles. There have been many threads comparing maintenance costs of different brands. I will say I don't find the cost of BMW maintenance particularly onerous but I think (gut feeling - no fast figures) my previous bikes, Honda and Harley, were less costly to maintain. I'm also guessing that the BMW car is more expensive to maintain than the Jeep too.

[GregFeeler]

How many of you follow the maintenance schedule for your automobiles? Very few if any would be my guess.

I follow the recommended services for all my vehicles at the minimum. Often I'm more aggressive, especially with things like oil changes. In my long experience with vehicles, there's always been a very high correlation between service, and reliability & longevity.

Modern vehicles are amazingly well engineered, and will last nearly forever if properly serviced. Just because they can tolerate neglect that doesn't make it a good idea, IMHO. I'm not suggesting you neglect your machinery - but some people do and justify it because they've managed to get away with it - so far. :bolt

[BubbaZanetti]

Besides, I've always found working on my bike, doing the regular maintanence, to be part of the rider/bike relationship and I enjoy it. It also adds to my confidence when I'm on a ride. :bikes

i don't want to say i LOVE wrenching on the bike, but i never find things like valves, oil changes or even fuel filter replacement to be that onerous. it gives me a good chance to look over the bike and make sure it's running in tip top shape. besides, i've always found any work on a bike is always far more enjoyable than working on the car. you almost never have to lie on your back and most work can be done while sitting on a stool, enjoying a cool drink. i'd take it over a day of cleaning the house, that's for sure:)

[GregFeeler]

i don't want to say i LOVE wrenching on the bike, but i never find things like valves, oil changes or even fuel filter replacement to be that onerous. it gives me a good chance to look over the bike and make sure it's running in tip top shape. besides, i've always found any work on a bike is always far more enjoyable than working on the car. you almost never have to lie on your back and most work can be done while sitting on a stool, enjoying a cool drink. i'd take it over a day of cleaning the house, that's for sure:)

+2!

[Easy]

I don't understand your point. Why compare a Jeep to a motorcycle. And if you're going down that road, why stop there; why don't you compare a motorcycle to a pineapple.

The maintenance intervals are recommended. Keeping in mind most shops make more money on repairs and maintenance, its understandable why they would want to see us more often.

Too much depends on your driving and the part involved not to mention tolerances.

I would like to congratulate you on your 140,000 miles. I have a brother that drives nothing but Jeeps. He has all the regular service done and has yet to put that many miles on one a without major service or selling it first.

Easy :german

[GlobalRider]

More to the point how about comparing BMW motorcycles to other brands of motorcycles. There have been many threads comparing maintenance costs of different brands. I will say I don't find the cost of BMW maintenance particularly onerous but I think (gut feeling - no fast figures) my previous bikes, Honda and Harley, were less costly to maintain.

About a year or two ago, MOTORRAD magazine took a bunch of popular motorcycles and did just that; compare maintenance costs over 50,000 kms (30,000 miles). All costs were based on following the manufacturer's maintenance schedules. In the pack was a Ducati, an FJR 1300, a BMW, a VFR and some others totalling about 10 motorcycles.

Now I can't remember all the details, but the Ducati 996 (or is it a 998) was the most expensive to maintain (no surprise) and the BMW was either the least or second least expensive to maintain.

[RANDYD8511]

A link to that MOTORAD sire or, article would be great. I have always been interested in the costs involved. :wow

[GSfornow]

About a year or two ago, MOTORRAD magazine took a bunch of popular motorcycles and did just that; compare maintenance costs over 50,000 kms (30,000 miles). All costs were based on following the manufacturer's maintenance schedules. In the pack was a Ducati, an FJR 1300, a BMW, a VFR and some others totalling about 10 motorcycles.

Now I can't remember all the details, but the Ducati 996 (or is it a 998) was the most expensive to maintain (no surprise) and the BMW was either the least or second least expensive to maintain.


Interesting I'd like to read that article - I guess for me the issue is the fact that I live on an island so I can't put a ton of miles on the bike and the BMW is the first bike I've owned that like an airplane requires an annual regardless of mileage. So I may have skewed perspective. Like I said I don't feel the costs are that out of line. I did get interested and looked at my maintainace records and the Harley was a less expensive ride "for me". As an aside a BMW looking good in Motorrad article is hardly a suprise!! :)

[osbornk]

If ya don't like working on it, go get a Honda.....

I had Hondas before I started buying BMWs and if you follow their recommendations, you do just as much or more to them. The difference is that most Hondas don't get the recommended service and other than Wings, most don't get ridden many miles.

As they get older, I can get parts easier and at a lower cost than I can get Honda parts. Many Honda parts get discontinued and I can get almost any part for my 21 year old Airhead overnight.

[gsinmaine]

2 weels V 4 weels lets see your A-- is on the line IN Mass.? "Oh well" Maints. are cheep and you???

[dlearl476]

As they get older, I can get parts easier and at a lower cost than I can get Honda parts. Many Honda parts get discontinued and I can get almost any part for my 21 year old Airhead overnight.

I'll see your 21 and raise you 37. I never had a problem getting parts for my '70 /5.

Obsolete parts availability is one of the things BMW does right.

[GlobalRider]

Interesting I'd like to read that article.

GSfornow and RANDYD8511:

I'll try to dig it up in the next day or so. With 26 thick issues a year, it might take a while.

As an aside a BMW looking good in Motorrad article is hardly a suprise!! :)

You'd think, but then BMW doesn't always come out on top in their comparison tests. The DL-650 Wee Strom came out on top as the "Alpen König" (King of the Alps). All very nice, but I couldn't see myself on one when I'm cruising down to the Alps on the autobahn.

[GSfornow]

You'd think, but then BMW doesn't always come out on top in their comparison tests. The DL-650 Wee Strom came out on top as the "Alpen König" (King of the Alps). All very nice, but I couldn't see myself on one when I'm cruising down to the Alps on the autobahn.


Wow think the guy that penned that article is looking for a new job? :)

[GregFeeler]

Wow think the guy that penned that article is looking for a new job? :)

Don't forget that "Motorrad" in German means "motorcycle", and has nothing more to do with BMW than "Motorcyclist" magazine here does with Harley Davidson being the "motor company". The BMW RA magazine, "On The Level" quotes Motorrad a lot, and from what I've seen there, they are about as objective as any of the bike rags in the states (and you can take that statement about any way you want). :bolt

[GSfornow]

Don't forget that "Motorrad" in German means "motorcycle", and has nothing more to do with BMW than "Motorcyclist" magazine here does with Harley Davidson being the "motor company". The BMW RA magazine, "On The Level" quotes Motorrad a lot, and from what I've seen there, they are about as objective as any of the bike rags in the states (and you can take that statement about any way you want). :bolt


I realize all that and most of my experience with Motorrad has been through the OTL. The combination of the original Motorrad articles and the OTL explanations of same sometimes seem to be how shall I say "a little bit of a stretch" but thats OK all views are welcome. And yeah I know all bike Mags seem to have a paticular point of view be it pro or con on a particular marque but with the little I've seen I would put Motoradd in the pro BMW catagory. I'm thinking thats why OTL seems to quote mostly Motradd. ;)

[GregFeeler]

I realize all that and most of my experience with Motorrad has been through the OTL. The combination of the original Motorrad articles and the OTL explanations of same sometimes seem to be how shall I say "a little bit of a stretch" but thats OK all views are welcome. And yeah I know all bike Mags seem to have a paticular point of view be it pro or con on a particular marque but with the little I've seen I would put Motoradd in the pro BMW catagory. I'm thinking thats why OTL seems to quote mostly Motradd. ;)

Sounds right to me. :thumb

[aerialfilm1]

Is something wrong with BMW motorcycles that they must be maintained so frequently

Ever see a 100,000 mile GSX-R passed down to a grandchild?

[GlobalRider]

The BMW RA magazine, "On The Level" quotes Motorrad a lot, and from what I've seen there, they are about as objective as any of the bike rags in the states (and you can take that statement about any way you want). :bolt

What I don't see any of our NA motorcycle magazines do is get into detail.

Motorrad's long term tests are 50,000 kms (31,000 miles) and some are 100,000 kms (62,000 miles). Their FJR 1300 long term test was 100,000 kms over about 14 months. I like that they strip the engine/transmission and compare all measurements to the installation, in service and out of service tolerances. Sure, its a sample of one, but interesting all the same. All operating expenses and repairs are listed.

They used to do spot checks on dealerships by planting a motorcycle with things wrong with it and then rate the dealership on how much they found. They haven't done one of those is a long time. Maybe legal issues put a stop to that, although I don't know why.

Same goes for their detailed helmet testing, back protector testing (energy absorbed), etc.

I can't remember the last time I bought a NA rag.

[Rpstk53]

I follow the recommended services for all my vehicles at the minimum. Often I'm more aggressive, especially with things like oil changes. In my long experience with vehicles, there's always been a very high correlation between service, and reliability & longevity.

Modern vehicles are amazingly well engineered, and will last nearly forever if properly serviced. Just because they can tolerate neglect that doesn't make it a good idea, IMHO. I'm not suggesting you neglect your machinery - but some people do and justify it because they've managed to get away with it - so far. :bolt

Not doing maintenence, IE, following manufacturers scheduled maintenece as opposed to common sense maintenence seems like my dentist telling me it's OK to only brush my teeth once a week. He stands to profit in the long run by suggesting this, but I would know better so obviously it is never suggested.
It seems all manufacturers have gotten on the "maintenence free" sales pitch when you buy a new vehicle. VW got caught by telling people to change their engine oil at 5K miles only to have 4 cyl. turbo engines fail, they had to change to a required synthetic oil change and buy engines up to 100K because of their mistake, also there is rumors of a class action suit because of this mistake, all they needed to tell people was change the oil every 3000 miles or 3 months.
this is only one example; similar to not brushing your teeth, you may not have a problem but the suggested lack of maintenence for most things sold thes days seems to me to be no more than false advertising.

[PAULBACH]

Interesting I'd like to read that article -

I remember the article in Motorcycle Consumer News are 18 months ago. But I no longer have the article. Anyone out there maintaining their own library of MCNs?

[Panhead_Jim]

Read Zen and the Art. Motorcycle maintenance is about oneness with the machine. We maintain bikes impeccably because we want to, and because we love to. Damn the schedule. Cut all their numbers in half or double them, and expect the appropriate result. I, for one, have never bought a vehicle to sell; I become attached to them spiritually immediately, and want to take meticulous care of them. And if you've ever known a factory mechanic of any brand of car or bike, you will know they are trained necessarily (or learn eventually) to cut every corner they can in the name of the almighty dollar. Please, all you professional mechanics out there, don't flay me in defense of your personal hygiene; you know that it's largely true, and you hate it as much as I. My future son-in-law is a factory trained and top notch BMW automobile mechanic, and he says (lamentably) that neither he nor virtually anyone else follows the factory recommended brake fluid change interval on their priceless BMW cars. To be honest, I'm not sure I'm strictly gonna follow it on my RS. In fact, if the valves are quiet and the mileage and performance are up to expectations, I may skip a valve adjustment. Some things can be a feel deal, especially if you are particularly in tune with the machine. Now, as to oils and filters? No brainer. Done at least on sched, and maybe sooner, depending on anticipated use. Use the numbers as rules of thumb, get to know your machine, pay attention to its messages, and ride like hades. OK, I'm done now...