when to use loctite?

[griffin738]

As I perform maintenance or install fun things on my bike, I'm not sure which "threaded connections" should get a dab of loctite.

When I put a wide "footprint" on my sidestand I definitely used some b/c I'm pretty sure that I'll never remove it.

But what about other places? If I remove / replace the handlebar bolt (to put in a RAM ball mount), should I use some? If I do, will it be a major undertaking to later remove the bolt?

I'm aware that there are different strengths of loctite where the blue stuff is less "lock-tighty" than the red.

Who cares to help this rookie wrencher by giving guidance on when & where to use different types of loctite?

Thanks!!
pb

[bmwcliff]

Generally I only use the BLUE, because you never know, it seems to work great. I have been in the Nuclear Power business 27 + years, and we use a lot of the BLUE, very rarely use the more permanent RED.:groovy

[kitze2]

The medium strength Blue or the low strength Purple are the way to go. Also on small alum (< 5/8") bolts the red can hold and the threads give it up. Then you're @%$*&$. Helicoil city

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

I believe the red needs heat to safely release it without damaging threads, whereas the blue can be removed with modest effort, it just resists vibration release.

[John Brase]

But what about other places? If I remove / replace the handlebar bolt (to put in a RAM ball mount), should I use some? If I do, will it be a major undertaking to later remove the bolt?
Thanks!!
pb

When I removed the handlebar bolts on my 1150RS in order to mount my GPS mount I saw traces of blue locktite, put there either by the factory or by the dealer on assembly. So I used some on re-assembly. It was not a "major undertaking" to unscrew the bolts at all.

John

[RandyB]

I believe the red needs heat to safely release it without damaging threads, whereas the blue can be removed with modest effort, it just resists vibration release.

I have seen recommendations to use red on clutch bolts, driveshaft attaching bolts, etc. Pretty much anything you don't need to reach on a regular basis, but could stand the application of heat. Blue for everything else. Green works well on bolts that are in place and you don't want to remove. It wicks into the threads.

PO used red on the pivot stub of my GS (Paralever). I have a greaseable driveshaft so after a trip to town and $20 bucks for a propane torch, I was able to grease it. Blue and regular checks now. So far, so good.

Just be sure to degrease the threads correctly.

[flash412]

Green works well on bolts that are in place and you don't want to remove. It wicks into the threads.CAREFUL now. There are TWO green products. One is wicking and the other is for stud and bearing installation. The green stud and bearing stuff makes the red stuff seem like Elmer's Glue.


Why can't LocTite put the BLUE stuff in a BLUE tube, the RED stuff in a RED tube and so forth? I have bought some that way sometimes. But I have also bought a RED tube that had a BLUE square with the 242 number on it. Similarly, I have BLUE tubes containing both RED and GREEN product. WTF is up with that? How hard can it be to come up with intuitive product packaging colors?

[JimmyC]

which to use. I just replaced the shocks on my new 1200gs adv with Wilbers. The lower mounting bolt on the front shock was loaded with red locktite and was very difficult to remove even with a lot of heat from a good heat gun. Remove the plastic alternator belt cover before applying heat. How do I know this?

The rear shock lower bolt had an equal amount of blue locktite and only put up a small fight.

Remember to clean off all of the old residue before reinstalling the bolt. I even dry fit them just to make sure there is no resistance.

Another thing I didn't realize was the Torx Bolts are not standard sizes. They are something called Torx Plus. I had to get the correct sockets from the Snap On Dealer. He had them right on the truck. They fit much tighter in the bolt head.

Jimmy C.

[RandyB]

CAREFUL now. There are TWO green products. One is wicking and the other is for stud and bearing installation. The green stud and bearing stuff makes the red stuff seem like Elmer's Glue.


Why can't LocTite put the BLUE stuff in a BLUE tube, the RED stuff in a RED tube and so forth? I have bought some that way sometimes. But I have also bought a RED tube that had a BLUE square with the 242 number on it. Similarly, I have BLUE tubes containing both RED and GREEN product. WTF is up with that? How hard can it be to come up with intuitive product packaging colors?


I've never used the sleeve locker but I may try it on some mods I'm working. I almost mentioned it but thought it would muddy the issue.

The tube is gas permeable to prevent the stuff from hardening, so don't store it in a plastic bag. I learned that from someone else, fortunately. I suspect it would be too expensive to make different colors. Either that or they expect smarter people than me to use it.:brow

[griffin738]

thanks for the info!!! as usual there is more to this than I would have guessed. a follow-up question. . .


Just be sure to degrease the threads correctly.
. . .how best to degrease threads???

[PGlaves]

The first good rule as to where to use Loctite is to use it where the BMW manual says to use it.

I almost never use the high strength red stuff. An exception is with thread repair inserts. If I am using solid inserts such as a Keensert I use red Loctitie on the outside threads. With a Helicoil it is questionable whether the stuff will dry with air possibly entering through the coil until the fastener is installed, so I don't use it here unless it is a fastener I will absolutely never need to remove again.

Unless I think it is particularly critical I avoid using even blue Loctite where a bolt threads into a blind hole, and there are lots of these: transmission and starter mounting bolts, for example. I avoid it here because it is difficult to clean all the old stuff out of the holes, even with a tap. After a few uses it clogs up in the bottom of the holes, leading to stripped threads at normal torque when the bolt bottoms in the hole.

Nuts and bolts are a good place to use it. Shock mount bolts come to mind, both as to being a nut/bolt application and a critical location.

Swing arm pivot stub-axles also require thread locker. BMW uses red. I have used blue here with no loosening whatsoever. I do paint mark the pieces in place so I can see if anything has moved.

I also avoid using it where it is awkward to get the wrench on the fastener. In these applications I want a little loosening with the wrench followed by a lot of twisting with just my fingers.

These are rules of thumb - not absolutes. But serve me as good general guidelines.

[RandyB]

To degrease I use brake cleaner and rags, q tips, etc., taking care to leave nothing behind.

[flash412]

I suspect it would be too expensive to make different colors. Either that or they expect smarter people than me to use it.This is why the rant. If they can put the RED stuff in a BLUE tube with a little RED square and the BLUE stuff in a RED tube with a little BLUE square SOMETIMES. And if they can SOMETIMES put BLUE stuff in a BLUE tube and RED stuff in a RED tube, why doesn't somebody go over there and kick the packaging designer or packaging purchaser in the head all day on the days that they find themselves putting product of one color in a tube of the other color?

This is the sort of stuff that makes me think that the CEO of that company is paid WAAAAY too much money.

(Proposed) Memo from the CEO of LocTite/Permatex:
"Put the red product in the red tube. Put the blue product in the blue tube. Put the green products in green tubes that are CLEARLY marked as to what's what. If you can't do that, then find someplace else to work because you're an idiot [or else disabled, see note below]." - Duh CEO

P.C. Note: People who are color blind are not allowed to fly fighter planes. There are plenty of jobs for them that do not involve selecting packaging colors for products that are color coded. People who are totally blind have no business selecting colors at all. That's not prejudice. That is what's called "reality."

[John Brase]

Flash, I thing you should actually send that memo.:thumb

John

[RandyB]

:laugh I agree with John. Send it. And judging from your use of color and font, you've been reading Snowbum again.:stick

[flash412]

Blue LocTite.
Red LocTite.

What sorta idjit does that?

[RandallIsland]

What sorta idjit does that?

Dyslexic control freaks who cannot delegate successfully? :ha

[Kev95GS]

(Proposed) Memo from the CEO of LocTite/Permatex:
"Put the red product in the red tube. Put the blue product in the blue tube. Put the green products in green tubes that are CLEARLY marked as to what's what. If you can't do that, then find someplace else to work because you're an idiot [or else disabled, see note below]." - Duh CEO

P.C. Note: People who are color blind are not allowed to fly fighter planes. There are plenty of jobs for them that do not involve selecting packaging colors for products that are color coded. People who are totally blind have no business selecting colors at all. That's not prejudice. That is what's called "reality."

My .02
Loctite has a trademark or other legalese to the red, blue, etc...
Other competitors market similar product , but cant market as red, blue... packaging cant be red, blue, etc..., because of Loctite, but can have ID of red, blue, etc in a small area.

:dunno

Kevin

[flash412]

Don't MAKE me get out my camera. :brow


That said, I just returned to work in my truck. This morning I rode a recently acquired, pristine, nine year old F650 to work today because I hadda get the VIN verified. The snow was melting and the sun was shining and it was above freezing when I left the house at 8AM.

While going to the dealer, I could SEE the cold front moving in over the mountains. It felt a LOT colder than when I left home. Weather.com on my peecee now claims the temp is 26F. I don't believe it. Snow is supposed to start again this evening or tonight, for the... what? fourth or fifth weekend in a row here on the Front Range in Colorado. At least my garage is easily heated when I wanna work on a bike.

Anyway, after the errand was run, I skeedaddled home and slid the bike into the garage and onto the workstand there. Driving a pickup truck just is nowhere near as fun as riding a bike. It was good to get out and ride.

[deilenberger]

Why can't LocTite put the BLUE stuff in a BLUE tube, the RED stuff in a RED tube and so forth? I have bought some that way sometimes. But I have also bought a RED tube that had a BLUE square with the 242 number on it. Similarly, I have BLUE tubes containing both RED and GREEN product. WTF is up with that? How hard can it be to come up with intuitive product packaging colors?
I have to agree - it's some of the stupidest packaging I've ever seen - it's like they're setting you up to use the wrong stuff, especially since the painted on labeling likes to start rubbing off with time.

Mebbe someone might suggest it to the manufacturer?

[wuli959]

Dyslexic control freaks who cannot delegate successfully? :ha

DAMN
Naked Mothers Against Dyslexia

:wow

[CTHalk]

Lots of people use too much loctite on any given part.

Using a torch to weaken a loctite bond is not a good idea. It is easy to apply heat too rapidly, and too concentrated, causing finish damage or worse.

Also, burning Loctite is not a good thing to breath......carcinogenic? I had a number of friends who worked at loctite, and according to them, that stuff isn't friendly to human organisms. And they weren't just emptying waste baskets there....

When replacing my swingarm bearings, my Milwaukee heat gun got the parts hot enough to easily unscrew the large pivot bolts. Patience is required......it's a heat gun, not a phaser. H.

[RandyB]

DAMN
Naked Mothers Against Dyslexia

:wow

Now that I've gotten up off the floor, I think we have an early front runner for funniest post of '07.:rofl

I don't like torches either, but no heat gun available and I wanted to ride.