A BMW Fix to Surging R1100 Series Bikes

[kenk]

Having tested all the Techlusion products over the years on my surging 1996 R1100RT with good success, I’ve finally settling on a product made by BMW that has totally eliminated my terrible lean-fuel surge with no decrease in mileage.

On the older R1100 series motorcycles, there is an electrical connector under the lift handle side panel. This electrical connector is for the Idle Regulating Valve (IRV), BMW Bosch Part # 13621461425 used for open-loop configurations for BMW motorcycles. The US versions were imported to the US in closed-loop with 02 sensors and Cat Code Plug (CCP). For the rest of the world, R1100 series used the IRV in open loop. For R1150 motors, this plug was eliminated since all were manufactured in closed-loop.

By disconnecting the 02 sensor, removing the CCP in the electrical box and simply plugging in the IRV to the BMW connector, the R1100 series is converted to open-loop with total elimination of the dreaded surge.

What about emissions and possible catalytic converter damage? The emissions for a closed-loop R1100 series motor is 1.5 CO +/- .5. By plugging in the IRV, the motor defaults to 1.8 CO. Since the IRV is an idle regulating valve, you increase or decrease the idle speed by turning in or out the screw on the IRV. Using an exhaust gas analyzer, you can set the IRV to 1.8 CO. Without an exhaust gas analyzer, you can simply turn the screw as low as it goes before dropping the idle below 1100 RPMs. Without an exhaust gas analyzer, you can simpply read your spark plugs. With stock plugs, my bike is running great and the plugs are showing no signs of running rich. If you set IRV to the correct idle speed, your CO should be within the emission standards (1.8 CO) and should have no effect on the catalytic converter, since closed-loop R1100 series bikes vary within the 1.5 +/- .5 CO.

I purchased my IRV through Mike at beemerboneyard.com. He may have a few used IRVs. New, they only cost about $75.

[alien_hitchhiker]

Ken, this is interesting. I'm suprised no one has discovered this before, especially given the amount of time & $$ so many 1100 owners have spent chasing after a surging fix.

Just to clarify, is the IRV distinct from the pententiometer that can be used to replace the O2 sensor?

Also, can I assume you pulled the Techlusion off, since you are no longer using the O2 sensor?

My '02 1100RT does have an unused 3 wire plug zip tied to the frame on the left side. I forget the colors; brown, yellow & green - maybe. This is in addition to the carbon canister solenoid plug left over from a long ago canisterectomy.

[alien_hitchhiker]

Ken, I may have answered my own question. I just popped the Bosch part # you provided into the search function on A&S Cycles online BMW parts cataloque. It listed the part as "CO ADJUSTMENT POTENTIOM"

I have read of using this as a surging fix. It sounds like you got excellent results.

[saab93driver]

Ken, this is interesting. I'm suprised no one has discovered this before, especially given the amount of time & $$ so many 1100 owners have spent chasing after a surging fix.



It is a fairly well known approach that has been documented several times over the years beginning in the mid '90's.

One of the later works seen here from the late Rob Lentini. It was one of the first fixes some of the bleeding edge people with US spec surging bikes experimented with, especially when using an aftermarket non cat exhaust.

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml

[BubbaZanetti]

not to hijack this thread, but i've got a quick question, if anyone can answer it:

i know of no R1100S'es that surge. they're a fairly different beast than most other oilheads in the engine department (and in other areas). a different motoronic, different cams, etc. why weren't these improvements introduced on other R1100 models in the 98 model year when the S came out, they seem to have fixed the surging problems?? motronic 2.4 was introduced on the 1150s if i'm not mistaken and that combined with dual spark, seems to have eliminated most surging.

just curious more than anything? :dunno

[bdiver]

Ken,

Did you take any picts of the procedure or parts? Sounds like a real good thing, I stop about 99% of surging with a good valve adjustment and TBS on mine but I like your idea.

I thought I made a major mistake when I flew down to LA and picked up my used RTP. When leaving the lot felt like I was at a Montana Rodeo riding "Killer" the Brahma Bull. I've since tamed the beast and it's a pretty decent ride although my old Honda V45 Magna is the smoothest engine I've ever riden.

If you do have some pictures put them up I'd love to see them.

Merry Christmas and all that stuff,

[james1300]

Contacted Mike at beemerboneyard.com

He doesnt have a IRV available.
Where can I purchase an IRV, like what is used in the above
thread?

[Andy VH]

My 94 R1100RS never had a surging problem, and the bike was initially sold in May of 94, I bought it from the 1st owner in Oct 94.

I later changed the intake tubes to the GS style, based on an article I read about better mid-range performance. That article also mentioned the CCP or Cat Code Plug. I bought the Pink one, only to then find out my 94 has no CCP. So perhaps my 94 is a bike running on open loop? Yet it has an O2 sensor.

I deleted the charcoal canister, installed the GS intake tubes and K&N filter, and installed Autolite plugs. No surging problems in 122,000 miles of riding.

[breyfogle]

My 94 R1100RS never had a surging problem.... only to then find out my 94 has no CCP. So perhaps my 94 is a bike running on open loop? Yet it has an O2 sensor.


I think you will find that in '94, the R1100RS was the only model available. The Motronic did not need an external plug to tell it which model R1100 it was controlling. When the R1100GS was introduced, with a slightly different state of tune, an external plug (the CCP) was added to tell the Motronic which engine it was controlling.

[james1300]

Thanks for the input.
The '95 R1100R already has the GS tubes and Pink Cat Code Plug.
Came from the factory with them. I am running Autolites.
Ivan the TECH at Mac's Cycle in Clarkston Wa, disapproves of them.
But there is too much good press about them, not to run them.

So, does anyone discount BMW parts? Like MRCYCLE.com does for JAP bikes?
Id like to find an IRV unit.

[bikerfish1100]

Thanks for the input.
The '95 R1100R already has the GS tubes and Pink Cat Code Plug.
Came from the factory with them. I am running Autolites.
Ivan the TECH at Mac's Cycle in Clarkston Wa, disapproves of them.
But there is too much good press about them, not to run them.

So, does anyone discount BMW parts? Like MRCYCLE.com does for JAP bikes?
Id like to find an IRV unit.

http://www.chicagobmwmotorcycle.com/parts.html
but they can be notoriously slow in delivery, with no communication as to ETAs.

[james1300]

http://www.chicagobmwmotorcycle.com/parts.html
but they can be notoriously slow in delivery, with no communication as to ETAs.

Thanks Biker Fish!:D

[kenk]

From the Max BMW parts website.

Part Number Description Qty Price Each
13621461425 CO ADJUSTMENT POTENT $73.00

Recommend calling to see if available.

Sorry that I have not posted photos of my installation. My camera is a high resolution camera producing photos around 1 MB. This forum will not allow posting photos this large.

[bikerfish1100]

download Flock browser, then post pics to Photobucket (both are free). From Photobucket you can paste to this site quite easily.
this is my non-surging R1100
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/bikerfish1100/mtmeeker2-1.jpg

[james1300]

[QUOTE=bikerfish1100;226605]
this is my non-surging R1100[QUOTE]


Which is alot newer than my '95 R1100R. Would that have anything to do with why yours doesn't surge??

[james1300]

I tried to log into their site and got this message:

There is a problem with this website's security certificate.


The security certificate presented by this website was issued for a different website's address.

Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server.
We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.
Click here to close this webpage.
Continue to this website (not recommended).


I tried to gain access to the parts dept. and got the message :Website not found???

[bikerfish1100]

possibly the newer factor, but definitely the different cam, exhaust and Motronic profiles. The S models rarely surge, and if so, it is only very slight at about 4200.
I've ridden my buddies R1150RT, and that thing would surge horribly (at least compared to what I'm used to) at steady throttle.

[james1300]

What kind of fuel milage are you now getting after the install of the BMW part?
I have in the past pulled the pink Cat Code Plug, causing the computer to fault to a full rich setting and the surge goes away, but the fuel mileage goes with it too!

[kenk]

What kind of fuel milage are you now getting after the install of the BMW part?
I have in the past pulled the pink Cat Code Plug, causing the computer to fault to a full rich setting and the surge goes away, but the fuel mileage goes with it too!

I just returned from West Bend, WI on my 1996 R1100RT and the fuel mileage was identical to what the two other riders were getting; around 47-50 mpg. One rider was on a 2005 R1200GS and the other on a 2000 R1100RT.

With the Techlusion products, my RT would alway get 5-8 mpg less than my buddy on the 2000 R1100RT.

My experience has been when you pull the CCP, the ECU default to the full rich setting will cause your CO to jump to over five. This is very rich. I would not recommend running without a CCP on a bike fitted with a catalytic converter.

Bikerfish1100...thanks for the download information.

[james1300]

CCP was removed and only ran briefly.
Thank you for your help.
Im ordering the 13621461425 CO ADJUSTMENT POTENT
tomorrow.
I hope Im not bugging you too much.
This is a plug and play install, correct?
Thanks, Jim

[james1300]

13621461425 CO ADJUSTMENT POTENT has been ordered from MAX BMW
(they had it in stock) for $73.00 plus $6.00 freight.
1-866-MAXBMW1

[kenk]

CCP was removed and only ran briefly.
Thank you for your help.
Im ordering the 13621461425 CO ADJUSTMENT POTENT
tomorrow.
I hope Im not bugging you too much.
This is a plug and play install, correct?
Thanks, Jim

No problem. When connected with CCP disconnected, the ECU will automaticly adjust to the correct mapping.

Make sure you disconnect the 02 sensor at the cannon plug located under the tank. You don't have to remove the tank. Just remove the bolt securing the tank in place at the bottom right rear of the tank, lift and disconnect.

See attached URL for a photo of the CO Potentiometer. This location is directly in front of the lift handle. Note: This device actually fits in the location where the PIA relay currently is located. BMW has a bolt in place to secure in the hole at the top of the POT. The set screw is located in the rounded portion of the POT. You can simply turn this screw down until the bike idles at 1100 RPMs. However, it available, it's best to set with a exhaust gas analyzer.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/kenk_bucket/DSCN0878.jpg

[james1300]

Ok, on a BMW '95 R1100R where is the plug located?

[96r1100r]

Can't find the empty plug on my 96 R1100R....... any help?

[kenk]

Can't find the empty plug on my 96 R1100R....... any help?

I 'm examining the wiring diagram for your bike and there is a CO Potentiometer connection coming off the motronic control unit for all 1995-2001 R1100r (US and UK) engines. Recommend examining around the lift handle handle directly under the seat on the left hand side very carefully. The connector is sometimes hidden under the wiring. The connector should have three wires; a red/yellow, green/yellow and black/white.

[james1300]

Received the Flux Capacitor Saturday. via USPS.
No lift handles on early '95 R1100R's.
You grab the frame.
Will investigate further on the L/H side of bike, Monday.
Parts box had been opened prior to me receiving the part. Calling them tomorrow and making sure this is Fresh, and NOT a test unit.
Thanks for the help!

[bmwmick]

It's just amazing how this stuff gets 'discovered' every few years. :clap :clap :clap
You guys need to read through all of the articles on ibmwr.org specifically this one:
http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml
Rob and I did a LOT of experimenting when I bought my early R1100RT in Oct '95.
The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester.

irv? :banghead ,

[james1300]

Thanks for the input.

[kenk]

It's just amazing how this stuff gets 'discovered' every few years. :clap :clap :clap
You guys need to read through all of the articles on ibmwr.org specifically this one:
http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml
Rob and I did a LOT of experimenting when I bought my early R1100RT in Oct '95.
The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester.

irv? :banghead ,

This article is factually incorrect in many of the areas. Rob wrote:

1. R1100RS without cat, no CCP connections, CO pot installed:

Best overall power
No surging
Significantly higher emissions
Converter damage likely
Poor fuel consumption

This is not correct. The R1100 series motors were produced in open and closed-loop. Although the US versions in closed-loop have lower emissions (1.5 CO +/- .5), the open-loop models used everywhere else in the world were not horrible polluters. By disconnecting 02 sensor, removing the CCP and installing the OEM Bosch CO Potentiometer, the ECU will use the European map producing approximately 1.8 CO. Although higher than in closed-loop, the total CO emissions in not all that significant since BMW clearly states CO is +/- .5%.

It is also factually incorrect to state "The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester." I would agree that BMW recommends using a EGA to adjust. However, a CO Potentiometer only has one adjustment screw. If you turn the screw down to where the bike is idling at 1100 RPMs, you will be very close to the 1.8 CO.

I hate to discredit an article written by a guy that is no longer with us and unable to defend. However, what Rob is discribing leads one to believe the bike is running at well over 4 CO. This is what would happen if you disconnected the CCP without doing anything else. However, it is not the case when a CO Potentiometer is connected. When you connect a CO Potentiometer to the BMW provided electrical connector, the ECU will use the European mapping at approximately 1.8 CO. The adjustment screw will only increase or decrease the CO by a small margin. At 1.8 CO, you won't hurt the catalytic converter.

As stated earlier in this post, my RT gas mileage is about the same as a closed-loop bike and the stock BMW plugs are consistantly burning right. Since the bike is now open-loop, the closed-loop lean fuel hunting or surge no longer exists. This is really what one should expect, since most of the R1100 series motors were open-loop. This is simply converting to the European standard.

[bmwmick]

This article is factually incorrect in many of the areas. Rob wrote:

1. R1100RS without cat, no CCP connections, CO pot installed:

Best overall power
No surging
Significantly higher emissions
Converter damage likely
Poor fuel consumption

This is not correct. The R1100 series motors were produced in open and closed-loop. Although the US versions in closed-loop have lower emissions (1.5 CO +/- .5), the open-loop models used everywhere else in the world were not horrible polluters. By disconnecting 02 sensor, removing the CCP and installing the CO Potentiometer, the ECU will use the European map producing approximately 1.8 CO. Although higher than in closed-loop, the total CO emissions in not all that significant since BMW clearly states CO is +/- .5%.

Kenk,
You are wrong for a LOT of reasons. BMW states that the SPEC is 1.5% +/-.5 CO. That is the value you ADJUST the CO Pot for, it isn't automatic

It is also factually incorrect to state "The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester." I would agree that BMW recommends using a EGA to adjust. However, a CO Potentiometer only has one adjustment screw. If you turn the screw down to where the bike is idling at 1100 RPMs, you will be very close to the 1.8 CO.

How can you arbitrarily say 1,100RPM is the correct CO content???? It matters where the TPS is set and where the air-bleed screws are set. The only way to set the CO Pot correctly is to use an Exhaust Gas Analyzer

I hate to discredit an article written by a guy that is no longer with us and unable to defend. However, what Rob is discribing leads one to believe the bike is running at well over 4 CO. This is what would happen if you disconnected the CCP without doing anything else. However, it is not the case when a CO Potentiometer is connected. When you connect a CO Potentiometer to the BMW provided electrical connector, the ECU will use the European mapping at approximately 1.8 CO. The adjustment screw will only increase or decrease the CO by a small margin.

Rob wasn't pulling these values outta his a$$, the bike was being monitored by an EGA machine (at the local dealer) at the time he was doing his experiments.

As stated earlier in this post, my RT gas mileage is about the same as a closed-loop bike and the stock BMW plugs are consistantly burning right. Since the bike is now open-loop, the lean fuel hunting or surge no longe exists. This is really what one should expect, since most of the R1100 series motors were open-loop and the ECU was designed to run this way. This is simply converting to the European standard.

I run with no CCP and slightly advanced timing, TPS at 0.485V and FR7DCX Bosch copper core plugs. No surging and 42-45MPG if I can keep it under 80MPH(which is difficult in AZ). AZ used to make us go through emissions testing each year but most of us are now exempt. My bike never went above 2.4%CO in 9 years of testing. With no CAT and my O2 Sensor is still connected and working.

[kenk]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

You stated...... "You are wrong for a LOT of reasons. BMW states that the SPEC is 1.5% +/-.5 CO. That is the value you ADJUST the CO Pot for, it isn't automatic". You are confusing BMW closed-loop setting (1.5%) with open-loop. In closed-loop, there isn't a CO POT to adust.

I don't doubt Rob's readings were what he stated. I do believe his methods were flawed. By pulling the CCP with an 02 sensor still connected, you will record CO readings over 4%. However, with an CCP removed, 02 sensor disconnected and Bosch CO POT connected in the BMW electrical connection, the ECU will default to approximately 1.8%. Take my word on this one...I have installed and tested a Bosch CO POT and you obviously have not. The large brass screws and Bosch CO POT will move an EGA by very small percentages. I am also not pulling these number out of my backside. With your bike idling at 1100 RPMs, there is simply no way you can increase CO to 4% by adjusting these two settings. My CO readings are 1.8%. That was acheived without the benefit of an EGA prior to adjustment.

Granted, it's alway better to use an EGA when connecting a CO POT or Techlusion device. However, many folks have installed Techlusion without the benefit of an EGA during installation and have achieved great results. Unlike a Techlusion where you are actually extending the duration the fuel injector is open, a BOSCH CO POT uses BMW ECU mapping developed by BMW engineers. So, a Bosch CO Pot is much easier to install and much less sensitive than a Techlusion. Believe me on this one. I helped Mark Dobeck test all of his Techlusion products on BMWs and co-wrote an article with Paul Glaves on Techlusions several years ago in BMW ON. You will also find an old Techlusion 83i article I wrote on IBMWR.com.

IMHO, there is never a good reason to change the factory set TPS or advance the timing to address a surging problem. I don't know of a single BMW dealer or mechanic that would disagree with me on this point.

[991100s]

Will the IRV plug in a 99 R1100S ?
Thanks

[bmwmick]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

Yep!

[991100s]

I was looking at the Chilton wiring diagram , and there appears to be no connection coming off the motronic to plug the IRV in. 99R1100S

[180pilot]

Was just getting ready to look at a '95 R1100RA with 27,000 miles on it. The owner says he stopped the surging with a Techlusion box, should I believe him???? It's in California, ( no smog check) so, how could I tell if the cat is bad, if other methods were tried before the Techlusion box? Reading all this, makes me want to go back to my old Air Head....

[j-budimlya]

Was just getting ready to look at a '95 R1100RA with 27,000 miles on it. The owner says he stopped the surging with a Techlusion box, should I believe him???? It's in California, ( no smog check) so, how could I tell if the cat is bad, if other methods were tried before the Techlusion box? Reading all this, makes me want to go back to my old Air Head....

I too have a '95 R1100RA....and I have tried a techlusion .....and yes , it will stop most surging....but it will run real rich......

I tried this and then took a good look at the piston/cylinderhead...too rich....I used a couple of water torture treatments to clean it up, removed the techlusion and now just run stock without any surging....it jsut takes a very good tuneup to run well......

I'm guessing that the BMW potentiometer is probably pretty good too.....but the bike still needs to be well tuned to run right....

[180pilot]

Thanks, I notice a lot of heat indications on the bikes pipes too, is that normal?

http://home.earthlink.net/~pilot180/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/r1100r2.jpg

Pipe below head is very blue.
Is the pot best way to stop surging, or should I just forget this bike?

[j-budimlya]

Thanks, I notice a lot of heat indications on the bikes pipes too, is that normal?

http://home.earthlink.net/~pilot180/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/r1100r2.jpg

Pipe below head is very blue.
Is the pot best way to stop surging, or should I just forget this bike?

Dark is normal......can be slightly polished....but these SS pipes will always discolor......

If its had good oil change care and it shifts well and the clutch is OK.....and the wheels are not dinged.....and most important....YOU LIKE IT...

sounds good to me....

[shakyone]

I posted this on 08/29 as a separate post, but I decided to re-post as part of this renewed thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I installed the idle potentiometer today, removed a pink ccp plug and disconnected the O2 sensor. I set the pot clockwise until the idle stabilized which I assume is as lean as possible with a stable idle. This happened at about 1100 RPM's on the bike tach.. I do not have an exhaust gas analyzer so I don't know what the CO is at idle. I assume the basic map will keep the CO at 1.8% above idle.
The bike runs great! The idle is stable and there is absolutely no surging.
I will watch the plugs over the next several hundred miles and see what happens with the gas mileage also.
I do have a few questions for anyone who has done this conversion:

-If I damage the converter, what does that mean? Will the exhaust plug up?

-I understand from prior readings that I am now running the "European map." Did they run a converter with this map?

-Does the pot only control the mixture at idle or is there a "bleed over" effect on higher RPM running?

-Should I remove The O2 sensor and plug the hole to preserve the sensor for potential future use?

-If I "gut " the cat, how much louder is it?

I really can't be4lieve that , after two years of ownership, this bike is finally running great. This is really much easier than a Teclusion!

Thanks!

Paul

Update:
After 120 miles, the plugs are still pure white (3923's) and the mileage was 40mpg with bags and trunk.
I'm Happy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by shakyone : 08-29-2007 at 11:58 AM.

[j-budimlya]

I posted this on 08/29 as a separate post, but I decided to re-post as part of this renewed thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I installed the idle potentiometer today, removed a pink ccp plug and disconnected the O2 sensor. I set the pot clockwise until the idle stabilized which I assume is as lean as possible with a stable idle. This happened at about 1100 RPM's on the bike tach.. I do not have an exhaust gas analyzer so I don't know what the CO is at idle. I assume the basic map will keep the CO at 1.8% above idle.
The bike runs great! The idle is stable and there is absolutely no surging.
I will watch the plugs over the next several hundred miles and see what happens with the gas mileage also.
I do have a few questions for anyone who has done this conversion:

-If I damage the converter, what does that mean? Will the exhaust plug up?

-I understand from prior readings that I am now running the "European map." Did they run a converter with this map?

-Does the pot only control the mixture at idle or is there a "bleed over" effect on higher RPM running?

-Should I remove The O2 sensor and plug the hole to preserve the sensor for potential future use?

-If I "gut " the cat, how much louder is it?

I really can't be4lieve that , after two years of ownership, this bike is finally running great. This is really much easier than a Teclusion!

Thanks!

Paul

Update:
After 120 miles, the plugs are still pure white (3923's) and the mileage was 40mpg with bags and trunk.
I'm Happy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by shakyone : 08-29-2007 at 11:58 AM.

I'd be very concerned if my plugs were "pure white"....do they also have little bits or silver on them? If so, your bike is running too lean and you are depositing metal from the pistons on you plugs......the plugs should be a light tan.....

At least that is what I believe....anyone else think pure white is good??

[bikerfish1100]

no, you called it correct Jim. pure white is bad bad bad. way too lean. light tan is correct.