Rear Drive Failure

[Dave_Faria]

GM List. I own a 2004 R1150RT and the crown bearing failed at 31k miles. The bearing was replaced under warranty. The warranty is 36k miles or 3 years so I'm gearing up to do my own work. When I got the bike back I asked for the old bearing and spacer/shim. The dealer told me the old bearing had to go bk to BMW and the old spacer was reused with the new bearing. I now have rear drive noise from 55mph to 70mph peaking at 65mph when I lean the bike. This may be tire noise I don't know. But, in any case if my bearing fails again how do I determine what spacer/shim is used with the crown bearing to get the correct loading?? I've looked at the spacers available and there is a bunch of em varing from .1mm to .05mm in thickness.

PS: I wanted the old bearing and spacer to determine the required thickness for shimming if it is ever needed.

Thanks list for your comments

[cjack]

GM List. I own a 2004 R1150RT and the crown bearing failed at 31k miles. The bearing was replaced under warranty. The warranty is 36k miles or 3 years so I'm gearing up to do my own work. When I got the bike back I asked for the old bearing and spacer/shim. The dealer told me the old bearing had to go bk to BMW and the old spacer was reused with the new bearing. I now have rear drive noise from 55mph to 70mph peaking at 65mph when I lean the bike. This may be tire noise I don't know. But, in any case if my bearing fails again how do I determine what spacer/shim is used with the crown bearing to get the correct loading?? I've looked at the spacers available and there is a bunch of em varing from .1mm to .05mm in thickness.

PS: I wanted the old bearing and spacer to determine the required thickness for shimming if it is ever needed.

Thanks list for your comments

The bearing has to be retained by the dealer for BMW if they call for it and often the original shim is the one that is reused. The preload (measured before reassembly) is .05 to .1 mm. You can test somewhat yourself by trying to wiggle the wheel in the horizontal or verticle plane. There should not be any movement.
Your warranty replacement is warranteed for two years parts and labor from the time it was done.

[Easy]

The old bearing is your property and BMW has no right to keep it against your wishes, regardless of the motive. IMHO they should have used a new shim. This doesn't seem to pass the smell test. The dealer should have asked your permission before disposing of your property against your wishes.

This action is as consistent with destroying evidence as attempting in good faith to resolve a long time nagging issue, hope they're attempting the latter. I'd be cautious in dealing with this dealer until you know. This is the attitude that has caused some of the faithful to leave the ranks after bearing failure.

Easy

Big Empty, Texas :german

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people.
Kin Hubbard (1868 - 1930)

[cjack]

The old bearing is your property and BMW has no right to keep it against your wishes, regardless of the motive. IMHO they should have used a new shim. This doesn't seem to pass the smell test. The dealer should have asked your permission before disposing of your property against your wishes.

This action is as consistent with destroying evidence as attempting in good faith to resolve a long time nagging issue, hope they're attempting the latter. I'd be cautious in dealing with this dealer until you know. This is the attitude that has caused some of the faithful to leave the ranks after bearing failure.

Easy

Big Empty, Texas :german

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people.
Kin Hubbard (1868 - 1930)

This was a warranty repair. In that case they bought the old bearing back. You could pay for the repair yourself and in that case keep the old bearing. I don't see how a shim can be considered new or old. It doesn't suffer any wear. That would be like throwing away the cover off the drive. Silly.

[04R1150RS]

I really don't agree that the old bearing is your property, especially since it was replaced under warrantee. As technically, BMW might want it to inspect the part and see why it failed, unlikely but possible. Now if the part had failed when the bike was out of warrantee, then it should be yours.

[rinty]

Dave:

The second part of Anton Largiader's article on final drives will be published in the next issue of On the Level. It may already be out. This part deals with shimming.

Rinty

[Easy]

The title is conclusive evidence of legal and equitable ownership of every part of the bike. The contract of purchase was for the entire bike. The warranty guarantees replacement of certain failed parts within the warranty period, it doesn't give BMW an ownership interest. BMW has the prerogative to ask you for a part, but no property interest in the part that would enable them to dispose of it contrary to your request.

Easy
Big Empty, Texas :german

[AntonLargiader]

Sounds like theory to me. Part of what we are buying is the warranty, and those are the terms of the warranty. Simple as that. If you want to refuse warranty coverage you can keep the bearing.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

The bearing plus shim needs to be X wide for proper preload. That preload dimension can be changed if a new bearing is put in unless its width is identical to the old bearing being replaced. If the bearing size is thinner, a thicker shim is needed to get at X. The reverse is true too.
Bearings are always a little different even if they are the same type. If possible see if you can get your old bearing to measure its width with a pair of digital calipers. This measurement is essential to shimming the new bearing as hopefully at the factory this was done properly. Now that your FD is noisy I am sure that the dimension of the new bearing was different and the old shim should have been replaced with a new one of a different size either thicker or thinner. Your dealer's wrench may have messed it up.

[cjack]

The bearing plus shim needs to be X wide for proper preload. That preload dimension can be changed if a new bearing is put in unless its width is identical to the old bearing being replaced. If the bearing size is thinner, a thicker shim is needed to get at X. The reverse is true too.
Bearings are always a little different even if they are the same type. If possible see if you can get your old bearing to measure its width with a pair of digital calipers. This measurement is essential to shimming the new bearing as hopefully at the factory this was done properly. Now that your FD is noisy I am sure that the dimension of the new bearing was different and the old shim should have been replaced with a new one of a different size either thicker or thinner. Your dealer's wrench may have messed it up.

Or not. Let us know if the cover was too tight or too loose. Or if it is a noise from a different source.

[Easy]

Ok you forced me to read the warranty booklet. I give up, I stand corrected. The faulty part is the property of the owner of the bike, but if the owner wants it replaced under warranty, he forfeits ownership to BMW NA. Page 9 of the Consumer Warranty Information booklet says..." Parts for which replacements are made become the property of BMW NA.' It seems by accepting replacement under warranty, you agree to give BMW NA the part.

That said, if you request, they should still let you look at it before they send it off, unless they don't want you to see it.

Easy
Big Empty, Texas :german

[PMonk]

I would like to know what % of Oilhead rear drives fail. I know that bad news is always news and good news isn't. Also read on forum that at National Rally
conventional gear oil was recommended rather than synthetic in the rear drive. What was the rational behind that recommendation and are there any stats to back it up.

I change rear drive same time as motor oil just so I can look for any metal shavings to try to catch a problem early. So far I have 41m on my 04 RT and havent found any yet.

I am also getting a little leak in rear drive seal at rubber boot. It never is really oily to the touch just a little black gunk on bottom. May switch to 85/90 conventional to see if it goes away. (wishful thinking!!)

[cjack]

I would like to know what % of Oilhead rear drives fail. I know that bad news is always news and good news isn't. Also read on forum that at National Rally
conventional gear oil was recommended rather than synthetic in the rear drive. What was the rational behind that recommendation and are there any stats to back it up.

I change rear drive same time as motor oil just so I can look for any metal shavings to try to catch a problem early. So far I have 41m on my 04 RT and havent found any yet.

I am also getting a little leak in rear drive seal at rubber boot. It never is really oily to the touch just a little black gunk on bottom. May switch to 85/90 conventional to see if it goes away. (wishful thinking!!)

The thinking was that the dino gear oil tends not to run off the gears and bearings when sitting. I don't know if that is a valid issue.
The input seal is not always the leak. Sometimes the threads around a castle nut in there pass the oil. If it doesn't drip, then I would not worry about it.

[nrpetersen]

It would be interesting (and maybe revealing) to know more of the operating temperature of a good RD after many miles of average cruising. If the bearings have excessive preload, I would expect the temperature rise to be on the high side. A possible easy check would be if you can put your hand on the case.

If they have too little preload, the gears would be noisy under load.

If the RD generates metal, it may start as a only a gear problem, but the metal would find its way into any non-sealed bearings and quickly cause bearing failure. Bearing failure would really generate additional metal of course. A key visual clue would be to look for pitting on the bearing races and roller/balls.

As a minimum, a dial indicator should be used to measure the bearing (and gear?) clearance on assembly. Bearing sets should be expected to vary.

The combination of a tapered roller bearing opposing a ball bearing operating under preload is unusual to say the least.

A preload shim increment of .05 mm (.002 inch) seems pretty crude to me.