1150 RT Pinging

[Chitwood]

I bought my first-ever BMW, a 2004 R1150RT, in July - 7,000 miles. The bike ran flawlessly. It took me about two weeks to go through the fuel that was in the tank from the dealer (A&S Cycles, Sacaramento). In the last few weeks, I'm suddenly getting pinging under any moderate load. I've tried differerent brands of premium, even tried regular 87 - what's my problem?

I'm in California and my buddy with a 2001 GS says the same problem has developed in his bike in the last month or so. Any ideas? Has a new fuel composition been introduced in California? I'll be contacting the dealer but I'm curious if there is anybody having a similar issue. :hungover

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

Have you tried buying from various stations and brands? Also is ethanol being introduced there to combat the costs etc?

[bmwmick]

I bought my first-ever BMW, a 2004 R1150RT, in July - 7,000 miles. The bike ran flawlessly. It took me about two weeks to go through the fuel that was in the tank from the dealer (A&S Cycles, Sacaramento). In the last few weeks, I'm suddenly getting pinging under any moderate load. I've tried differerent brands of premium, even tried regular 87 - what's my problem?

I'm in California and my buddy with a 2001 GS says the same problem has developed in his bike in the last month or so. Any ideas? Has a new fuel composition been introduced in California? I'll be contacting the dealer but I'm curious if there is anybody having a similar issue. :hungover

Did this bike use a lot of oil in it's earlier life? There have been some reports of the Oilheads building up a lot of carbon in the cylinder heads. The effectively raises the compression ratio AND can create hot spots in the head that will ignite the incoming charge early. I'd ask them to do a compression test (warm) and see if it is way high for your bike. The R1100 Bulletin was #2738

I'd also have them check the timing. If it is advanced, that can cause your pinging too.

[BubbaZanetti]

try running 89. mine was pinning all year, i think no one is buying the 93, so it sits in the tanks and degrades. the ethanol makes it degrade faster. new 89 is better than old 93 i guess, my pinning is nearly gone.

[Mr. Frank]

You might try running a bottle of Techron and a full tank through it to take out some of the carbon. It's often recommended that you change the oil and filter afterward.

[RTRandy]

I bought my first-ever BMW, a 2004 R1150RT, in July - 7,000 miles. The bike ran flawlessly.

Do you know if or when the bike had it's 6,000 mile tune up and for that matter, who performed the tune up ? I rode my RT 7,000 miles in just twenty days so I got to experience first hand how the engine went from running super strong to not real strong in just a short period of time. That means I had to do two tune ups on both sides of my trip in a little over a month. Now I know why BMW says you need to do a service every 6,000 miles.

Could be worth looking into.

[BradfordBenn]

Also make sure you check the oil level. My 02RT pings when it gets low, no matter the gas.

[John Brase]

Also make sure you check the oil level. My 02RT pings when it gets low, no matter the gas.

What??!! I can't begin to figure out what the oil level might have to do with pinging (preignition). Unless, it is so low that the motor overheats, but I know you wouldn't do that. Seriously, how could this be?

John (in a quandry again)

[j-budimlya]

First thing I'd do is make sure I am running at a high enough RPM.....nothing below 3,000 rpm....4,000 and up is best...

Next I'd use only shell or exxon premium grade....they are just better fuels..

and third, if the above has not been the norm, I'd put in a new set of plugs...

sometimes poor operation is the result of prior riding and fuel...plugs take a beating...

If this fails, it's back to the dealer for help....this bike should run great...no excuses....and no pinging if #1 is observed....

[Rpstk53]

Don't ignore it, pinging is early detonation!
This is how diesels run but bad news for gas engines.
The pistons are firing before TDC,(IE backwards!!).
You could be lean, check a fuel sample by draining some gas in a jar and letting it settle out to check for water.
pull a plug and check the color, if it's white beware, that means lean fuel mixture.
As was mentiioned if the compression is high that could mean carbon build up, that usually happens gradually though.
I don't know that much about BMW motorcycles but Ive been working on gas engines all my life (52 YO, 30 year as a mechanic), and I've seen holes in pistons from detonation (pinging)!
Bob

[RiverRat280]

usually if you change your plugs, run some techron or other fuel injector cleaner and make shure to use good quality fuel it will take care of it. Oh and take it for a good long run at high rpm to clean out carbon deposites.

[PETDOC]

My '04 1150 GS had a hot weather pinging problem. Always occurred in summer when ambient temp was >90 and I was running below 4000 rpms and I hit the throttle. I tried a variety of things to get it to stop, but it wasn't until I replaced the left sided cam chain tensioner with the new upgraded model that the pinging went away. I have since challeneged the engine by letting rpms in 6th gear drop to 2500 on days of >95 degrees and rolling on throttle---- I can not make it ping !

[lkchris]

First thing I'd do is make sure I am running at a high enough RPM.....nothing below 3,000 rpm....4,000 and up is best...

This is poorly stated.

Better stated is ... avoid lugging.

[lkchris]

Have you tried buying from various stations and brands? Also is ethanol being introduced there to combat the costs etc?

Ethanol increases octane.

Ethanol is more expensive than gasoline.

[lokhankin]

My service manager explained that high octane ratings in summer achieved by more level of etanol in petrol mixture.

So, I found this article:
http://www.motorcycleperf.com/tectip.htm

And already running my second tank on 87 from cheapest gas station.
No pinging what so ever.

04' R1150RT 14K miles.

[Sully]

My R1100RT, in the 2 years I've owned it, has always pinged under full throttle- dealer serviced, at least 89 octane.

It's so much faster than my Harley that I just keep the revs up and refrain from 'balls to the wall' acceleration.

I'd still like to be able to 'floor it'...

[BubbaZanetti]

My '04 1150 GS had a hot weather pinging problem. Always occurred in summer when ambient temp was >90 and I was running below 4000 rpms and I hit the throttle. I tried a variety of things to get it to stop, but it wasn't until I replaced the left sided cam chain tensioner with the new upgraded model that the pinging went away. I have since challeneged the engine by letting rpms in 6th gear drop to 2500 on days of >95 degrees and rolling on throttle---- I can not make it ping !



interesting, i can't think of any reason the cam chain tensioner would cause pre-ignition, but i can think that the old style cam chain tensioner might cause a bit of chain slap if either worn out or there were issues with the oiling hole. i often think my pinning issues might be just that, since most of my "pinning" seems to come from the left side.

[PETDOC]

If you read this thread someone far more knowlegable than I explains why the cam chain tensioner can be associated with pinging.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143472&highlight=pinging+cured

[bmwmick]

If you read this thread someone far more knowlegable than I explains why the cam chain tensioner can be associated with pinging.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143472&highlight=pinging+cured

I'm with Bubba,
There is no reason replacing the cam chain tensioner could affect pinging (detonation). The tensioners only take up the slack on the non-tensioned side of the chains. Under acceleration, both cam chains are pulling on the cams keeping the tension-side tight. The slack on the loose side of the chain has no bearing on cam timing during acceleration. None!
The tensioners were updated to reduce the startup rattle which was more pronounced on the left side because that tensioner could bleed-down when the engine was shut off hot.

[BubbaZanetti]

while rational, i'm not sure i'm buying all the arguments, as mentioned above, under acceleration, the cam chain doesn't undergo any further "tensioning" the chain is just as taut at 3000 rpm as it is at 5000 rpm. i'm feeling this might be more related to the ECU and mapping than anything. this is good though, its giving me a lot to think about (and also making me consider a tensioner upgrade, which i consider every 6 months, but then can't find the parts)

[PETDOC]

I have a link (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142787) to my detailed experience with summertime pinging and the cam chain tensioner swap. As stated I also switched to all synthetic oils and did my own 12 K tuneup at the same time so I can't absolutely exclude that those don't factor into "no more pinging"; however, if you read other posts to the thread you will see several others who lost the ping when they upgraded left sided cam chain tensioner. I guess in the name of science I could put the old tensioner back in, but I'm just not that curious.

[Easy]

I'm with BubbaZanetti on this one. It depends on what you mean by "Pinging". Could be your pinging was the sound of a loose valve chain. Seems like any slack would be compensated by the tight valve chain, on the pulling side of the sprocket when the engine is running, unless the chain had uneven wear which should cause poor engine performance.

Was the chain replaced with the tensioner?

Easy

Big Empty, Texas :german
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Groucho Marx (1890-1977)

[PETDOC]

Easy
I didn't replace the cam chain and did not have any significant cam chain noise when I replaced the tensioner.

[jwhite518]

Ethanol increases octane.

Ethanol is more expensive than gasoline.


Ethanol is also not widely available in California.

[Chitwood]

Great answers everyone, thanks. I think my basic problem was bad gas. I was too preoccupied with finding gas stations with "shorty" nozzles so I could easily top off the tank rather than sticking with top-shelf gas from a busy name-brand station.

Soooo, I've focused on using premiun from my local Chevron station (very busy, high turnover, fresh gas), ran some Redline cleaner through it, had my local mechanic (Subaru by trade, BMW by choice) install an inexpensive ECU programmer (sorry, can't remember the brand) and richen up the mixture a bit along with sync'ing the carbs, and now it runs like a charm. Oh, and my oil level was quite low at one point - I wasn't aware of the oil consumption issue (my shadetree mechanic said using the sidestand consumes oil as it seeps into the left-side head while parked, so now I only use the center stand and the oil consumption has almost gone away).

Still get a little bit of pinging in 6th gear, rolling on the throttle from low RPM, but that was just for testing purposes - don't ride like that! Plus the ECU programmer seems to have given the bike about 20-30% more torque right off the bottom and eliminated all traces of surging - great investment (about $250). Thanks everyone!

[Chitwood]

Techlusion R259 ECU programmer - highly recommended.

[jacco]

Oh and take it for a good long run at high rpm to clean out carbon deposites.

How long is a "good long run" at high RPM?


I seem to have some pinging every now and then (only when accelerating with WOT), but always put in at least 92 octane gas. :banghead

[bearsfolks]

My 2002 R1150R did the same. Several trips back to the dealer, many kinds of additives, all fuel stations in the area, still pinged. I ignored it. Stockton, CA

[jacco]

My 2002 R1150R did the same. Several trips back to the dealer, many kinds of additives, all fuel stations in the area, still pinged. I ignored it. Stockton, CA

That's risky, since it can do serious damage to the engine. Mine is better now (I think). I kept it over 4k for about 600 miles (no matter what, basically, except for the first 5-10 miles to warm it up). Even now I typically ride one gear lower than I used to, 3k rpm minimum in 1-3, 3500 rpm minimum in 4th and 5th. Bad for the gas mileage, but it seems to have helped? Might be 90% my imagination though...:dunno

[ltownsend]

My 02 1150 RT pinged from the time I bought it, 30,000 miles 1 1/2 year ago. Tried the TEchlusion unit, which eliminated surge, but did not affect pinging. Dealer absolutely swore he could not hear the pinging under any condition; I heard it regularly in the mountains, particularly in hot weather. Gas grade appeared to make no difference at all. Compression check showed the compression was high, but the dealer's mechanic recommended leaving it alone because it runs so well--don't fix it if it's not broken idea. His statment: "I can make any bike ping if I try, save yourself $700 and run it at higher rpm." I assume it probably has a carbon problem. So, my solution: I ran it 20,000 miles this last summer on regular gas at high RPMs and fuel additive that is supposed to clean off the carbon. Today it still pings going up significant grades at 4,200 rpm or less. I make sure it stays above 4,200 rpm going uphill.

If I ever get ambitious and want to tear the engine apart--which I am a bit reluctant to do--I'll scrape out the carbon if there is any.

LT

[Red100RT]

Install a pair of Autolite AP3923 plugs;) While your at it, are the secondary plugs all oiled up? If so switch to a hotter plug.

[jacco]

Install a pair of Autolite AP3923 plugs;) While your at it, are the secondary plugs all oiled up? If so switch to a hotter plug.

:scratch '02 1150s have only one plug I think?:dunno Thanks for the Autolite tip though...

[Red100RT]

:scratch '02 1150s have only one plug I think?:dunno Thanks for the Autolite tip though...

Oops, sorry, I thought it was a 2004:banghead