Electrical gremlin on R1100R

[eclectio]

All of a sudden, my R1100R will sometimes not start. Put up kick stand, turn on ignition, turn kill switch to run, (hear the sound of the fuel pump), hit the starter button, and absolutely nothing happens. After repeating the cycle numerous times, it will start normally. It either starts normally or not at all - no grinding noises or anything. That is, when I attempt to start the bike, I have no idea which it will be - either normal or nothing.

I did clean out the start button. The battery seems fine. All the lights come on normally whether or not it starts.

The good news is that this problem waited until I got home from an 8748 mile trip.

Suggestions?

[darencs]

Mine has done the same thing for about a year now. I just put it in neutral and it fires right up. I narrowed my problem down to the side stand safety switch. Next time yours does it, put it on the center stand and look at the side stand pivot. There's a plastic piece that straddles the side stand and rotates with it. With your fingers rotate the switch a little bit further and try to start it. If it starts, there's your problem. As for fixing it, I've been planning to try some rtv between the switch and sidestand so the switch will rotate further when I put the sidestand up. Or, I've got a new switch laying around to replace the whole thing. Or, I'll just keep putting it in neutral to start it up. :)

[eclectio]

Thanks, Daren. The side stand switch does seem to be the culprit, but I could not confirm that by creating the problem by trying to move the plastic part the wrong way. In fact I couldn't seem to move it meaningfully at all. However, the last couple of times it wouldn't start, the problem corrected after re-doing the side stand.

Is there an easy way to by-pass that switch?

Thanks again!
John

[darencs]

I haven't tried this but Here (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5036) they talk about following the wire back to it's connector and bridging the 2 wires there.

Here's what was suggested on advrider:
"I snipped mine and soldered the ends together, but if you want to leave the switch intact for selling the bike later, just trace the wiring harness back to the plug (should be a fairly large two-position connector under the left hand cover) and bridge the connection with a thin piece of telco wire. The telco stuff (must be smaller than 30ga) will allow the connector to snap back together without a problem."

[eclectio]

Daren,

My neutral indicator light has always been intermittent and that has never been a problem. If I was in neutral but the light didn't come on it wouldn't start unless I used the clutch, so I usually just used the clutch and started while in gear. Now I notice that if I'm having a problem with it starting and the light is not on while I'm in neutral, it will start as soon as I can get the neutral light to work.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
John

I'd rather not bypass anything until I'm sure what to bypass.

[alien_hitchhiker]

Eclectio, next time it fails to start, pull in the clutch & hit the starter.

My bike has been having a similar problem - on occassion the starter does not energize when I hit the button. Pulling in the clutch always works. I haven't bothered to trouble shoot it yet - I suspect it is the relay at the neutral switch. Pulling in the clutch 'overides' it.

(BTW, if anyone has researched this and has a clearer understanding, please educate us).


postscript - your latest post went up while I was still writing my preceeding response. I think you have narrowed the problem down to the neutral switch relay. The starter circuit is designed so that the bike must either be in neutral or the clutch pulled in - thus preventing lurching forward when you hit the starter. How to fix it? Only Clymer (or Haynes) knows. I'll probably tackle mine when the roads are covered in snow.

[eclectio]

Daren,

I guess I didn't make clear that for a couple of years I did just pull the clutch and didn't worry about the neutral. Now it seems that the light must come on. I still pull the clutch out of habit even now when the light does come on. But it seems now that it will only start if the light is on. Note: I don't think I've tried when the light is on w/o pulling in the clutch.

[darencs]

Well, I just looked into my problem again. I hadn't worried about it for about a year since it always starts when I put it in neutral and pull the clutch lever I just do that out of habit. But, after looking at it again, I think alien_hitchhiker is probably right.

Does anyone know where the neutral switch relay is? The Haynes manual doesn't list it as any of the relays in the fuse box. The starter relay has a lot of connections on it, is this a function of the starter relay?

[darencs]

eclectio,
Have you eradicated your electrical gremlins yet? Mine turned out to be a clutch switch connector that had come unplugged. When I had the front end apart to change the fork seals I probably pulled too hard on the left bar. On my R11R the plug was mixed in with the mess of wire connectors under the front of the gas tank (arrowed in picture below). I originally assumed that the side stand switch was my problem because I was messing with it while I had the bike apart and broke a piece of the "saddle" off. We all know what a$$-U-me stands for right? :laugh

Well anyway, if your neutral switch was a little out of adjustment and didn't know it was in neutral it wouldn't be a big deal as long as your clutch switch told the system that the clutch was in and it didn't matter. But if the clutch switch was bad, or unplugged, it would become a problem. From what I've read the neutral switch is a PITA to get to but you should be able to test the clutch switch by sliding the tank back a little bit (preferably when it's close to empty) and checking the plug. If it's plugged in pull it apart and jumper across the bike side and see if it fixes your problem. I'm no expert but this fixed mine and it's easy to test.

I may be late and you've fixed yours months ago. If so, post and let us know what fixed it.

[AntonLargiader]

I guess I didn't make clear that for a couple of years I did just pull the clutch and didn't worry about the neutral. Now it seems that the light must come on. I still pull the clutch out of habit even now when the light does come on. But it seems now that it will only start if the light is on. Note: I don't think I've tried when the light is on w/o pulling in the clutch.
Sounds like your neutral switch is slow and your clutch switch is now bad. Replace the clutch switch so you can start the bike and if you ever have the swingarm removed for any reason (like a clutch spline lube) replace the neutral switch.

If your fuel pump runs, the problem was not ever the sidestand switch. The SS switch acts just like the kill switch on your bike. Leave it connected. Probably when you worked the sidestand and found that the bike worked, it was just the extra time letting the slow neutral switch make contact. There's oil in in now, so it takes longer for the contacts to connect.