BMW $$$$ Woes

[Polarbear]

I've been slightly disenchanted lately with my KLT, etc and the price I pay to upkeep this thing! Maybe we all know this already, as the price of M/C happiness comes at an alarming shock, when one takes inventory of ones dollars... My recent rear seal leak in motor, with clutch parts comes in at a huge est.1600$ fix and makes me wonder just how all of you, that are in my world of BMW, etc(other brands,too) make enough $mulah$ to keep riding! I have been able to do most all my work, as a mechanic in my past, to keep my bikes moving under me, BUT I'm having thoughts of HOW MUCH is enough when it comes to these things. Since childhood, I've ridden bikes and continue on until I die. It just seems to me the price of ones thrills is going UP! My wages don't seem to increase the same. I'm crying, I know. Vent vent vent! I'll get over it, most likely. I am out of Warrantee on the KLT and think the bike was never intended to exceed this period, wihtout some serious imput from my wallet! I'll bet others have this problem,too. What happened to high,high mileage Beemers, without investing all the money I'm spending on this newer one? Hmmmmmmm? What do you spend to keep your's going lately? I should probably keep an extended warrantee, from now on. How many of you guys/gals out there, buy extended warrantees for your Beemers? Seems like 7 year warrantees are needed and maybe money well spent, imo! The extended deal is about 1200$ at my BMW dealer, for new bikes/7years. Happy Trails, Randy13233 :usa :banghead

[selil]

I've found myself thinking the same thing about my KLT.. New ABS system $2200 plus at a meager 40K miles. The rear end was making some funny noises too.. I moved the KLT out of daily riding duties for the time being.. I know others have had 300K "trouble" free miles, but that usually include two or three rear ends, maybe a spreg or clutch failure, and much more.. People say well if you're not happy sell it.. I bought the bike because I planned on keeping it 10 or 11 years based on BMW quality. Some people will get mad because if you question the quality of your bike they think you are talking bad about their bike. I think BMW in the mid 90's changed their design standards and moved away from bullet proof to fast as a bullet.

[SIBUD]

I buy used.

Bought a 93 K1100LT last year. I had 63K miles. Russell Day Long Seat, aftermarket rear shock.

So far I have replaced a leaking front seal, new tires, new battery, oil, filters and gas.

Cost per mile is pretty low after I sell it.

However, I encourage everyone to buy new. How else were there be used bikes for me? :D :D

[DarkCloud]

I've been slightly disenchanted lately with my KLT, etc and the price I pay to upkeep this thing! Maybe we all know this already, as the price of M/C happiness comes at an alarming shock, when one takes inventory of ones dollars... My recent rear seal leak in motor, with clutch parts comes in at a huge est.1600$ fix and makes me wonder just how all of you, that are in my world of BMW, etc(other brands,too) make enough $mulah$ to keep riding! I have been able to do most all my work, as a mechanic in my past, to keep my bikes moving under me, BUT I'm having thoughts of HOW MUCH is enough when it comes to these things. Since childhood, I've ridden bikes and continue on until I die. It just seems to me the price of ones thrills is going UP! My wages don't seem to increase the same. I'm crying, I know. Vent vent vent! I'll get over it, most likely. I am out of Warrantee on the KLT and think the bike was never intended to exceed this period, wihtout some serious imput from my wallet! I'll bet others have this problem,too. What happened to high,high mileage Beemers, without investing all the money I'm spending on this newer one? Hmmmmmmm? What do you spend to keep your's going lately? I should probably keep an extended warrantee, from now on. How many of you guys/gals out there, buy extended warrantees for your Beemers? Seems like 7 year warrantees are needed and maybe money well spent, imo! The extended deal is about 1200$ at my BMW dealer, for new bikes/7years. Happy Trails, Randy13233 :usa :banghead

Which KLT do you have?

[Ridealot]

I know what you mean about the cost of the upkeep on these things.
I am someone who cannot afford new bikes. I wait until a model I like is 6-10 years old. Then I have always been able to find a low mileage bike, usually with most of the upgrades already done. I bought my '93 K1100LT 2 years ago with 23k miles on it. It also had the painted to match Bushtec with it. Buying an older bike you usually already know all the things to look out for because all the weaknesses of that model will be well documented by then.

Today I was out riding my Airhead and thought that I would stop by the BMW shop and pick up an oil filter for the K bike. For just the filter, not the filter kit with gaskets, they charged me $17.97! Have i just not been paying attention, when the heck did they start costing that much?

[DarkCloud]

I know what you mean about the cost of the upkeep on these things.
I am someone who cannot afford new bikes. I wait until a model I like is 6-10 years old. Then I have always been able to find a low mileage bike, usually with most of the upgrades already done. I bought my '93 K1100LT 2 years ago with 23k miles on it. It also had the painted to match Bushtec with it. Buying an older bike you usually already know all the things to look out for because all the weaknesses of that model will be well documented by then.

Today I was out riding my Airhead and thought that I would stop by the BMW shop and pick up an oil filter for the K bike. For just the filter, not the filter kit with gaskets, they charged me $17.97! Have i just not been paying attention, when the heck did they start costing that much?

The prices for BMW bits and pieces change every day. I have noticed an upward trend. Hi Flo's run $8.00, and Frams are $8.95.

[Ridealot]

The prices for BMW bits and pieces change every day. I have noticed an upward trend. Hi Flo's run $8.00, and Frams are $8.95.

I thought you couldn't get the Framms filters anymore without that black sure grip stuff on the outside of them??

I got to thinking that the shop might have made a mistake and charged me for a oil filter kit. So I called and asked what the price of just the oil filter was, $17.97. Then I asked what the oil filter kit cost $18.02. Thats right, the price of the kit was a nickel more. I rode the Airhead back down and up graded to the filter kit. Didn't the oil filter kit used to cost 5-6 dollars more??

[cjack]

I thought you couldn't get the Framms filters anymore without that black sure grip stuff on the outside of them??

I got to thinking that the shop might have made a mistake and charged me for a oil filter kit. So I called and asked what the price of just the oil filter was, $17.97. Then I asked what the oil filter kit cost $18.02. Thats right, the price of the kit was a nickel more. I rode the Airhead back down and up graded to the filter kit. Didn't the oil filter kit used to cost 5-6 dollars more??

I don't think it was that much more...maybe 2 dollars. I just priced an airhead kit versus a filter only plus an oring and paper gasket and the kit was a buck cheaper than all the parts. Plus you get a crush washer or three.
BMW has been raising the prices on most everything, plugs, oil, points, filters, etc. the most noticeable to us since that is what we buy most. Percentage wise, I think the low priced items went up the most. They blame the Euro, etc. and I suppose that is the main of it. They still have the most incredible availability of parts for bikes manufacturered 40 years ago and that costs. I'm willing to give them credit for that.
I figure if we ride maybe 12K to 18K a year, three oil filters equals about $55 for one bike (actually the filters for the new bikes are quite a bit less). For Viki and I to go to the Hiawatha rally last weekend, 900 miles, two bikes, 50MPG (that's 25 for two), the gas was about $110. This is not an inexpensive hobby. Pity the poor endurance rider who spends $55 a day for 1K days. Heck even the endurance rally fees are almost $900 for just the Butt Lite. And about $500 for gas.
Now that I think of it...$17 bucks? Big deal. Go for a ride.

[DarkCloud]

I thought you couldn't get the Framms filters anymore without that black sure grip stuff on the outside of them??

I got to thinking that the shop might have made a mistake and charged me for a oil filter kit. So I called and asked what the price of just the oil filter was, $17.97. Then I asked what the oil filter kit cost $18.02. Thats right, the price of the kit was a nickel more. I rode the Airhead back down and up graded to the filter kit. Didn't the oil filter kit used to cost 5-6 dollars more??

The correct fram filter is a 6063, it is identical to the BMW part except it has no writing on the outside, just bare metal. According to hearsay the Fram is made in Italy at the same factory as the BMW filter. The unique thing about the BMW filter is that a dozen different filter companies make a replacement filter, but where do you find them on the counter?

[cjack]

The correct fram filter is a 6063, it is identical to the BMW part except it has no writing on the outside, just bare metal. According to hearsay the Fram is made in Italy at the same factory as the BMW filter. The unique thing about the BMW filter is that a dozen different filter companies make a replacement filter, but where do you find them on the counter?
BMW filters for the R11, K11 etc. are made in Austria. Not that that matters so much. But BMW boots are made in Italy...

[Polarbear]

Mine is 2001 KLT and I bought it used, at about 10 months old in 2002, with only 1200 miles on it. Good Deal(At BMWdealer). It has caused me to rethink my budget however, because of all I mentioned above. It has been a very expensive Beemer to keep roadworthy. My question about extended warrantee's went unanswered to all out there? I've had the rear end failure twice, rear rotors three times, and now this big one in the motor(leak,etc.) I still love riding all bikes and the KLT will continue to stick around a while yet, but I'm telling you that without my trusty R100 sitting alomgside the KLT, the KLT would be a goner. I am riding the R much more these days! Too bad. PS;the KLT has 70000 on it now. Not a high mileage standard, for sure! Happy Trails, Randy13233 I'm not an old fuddy, just your avg.53 year old beemer dude, complaining... :)

[Bokrijder]

In today's market the $1200 extended warranty is probably a pretty good deal. (be sure to read the fine print) In my geographic area, new vehicle dealer labor rates are approaching $100 per hour. At these labor rates, a single and somewhat minor failure can easily equal the cost of the policy.

Two final drive failures and three rear rotors ??? My guess is that an under lying cause is being missed. At 70,000 miles and if the bike is running constantly at max gross weight and at high speed, a couple of preemptive final drive seal and bearing changes wouldn't be totally out of line. I wouldn't be happy with two catastrophic failures.
How's the rear pad life? Any chance that there is a slight drag on the rear brake causing constant heat build up in the final drive?

Motard

[cjack]

In today's market the $1200 extended warranty is probably a pretty good deal. (be sure to read the fine print) In my geographic area, new vehicle dealer labor rates are approaching $100 per hour. At these labor rates, a single and somewhat minor failure can easily equal the cost of the policy.

Two final drive failures and three rear rotors ??? My guess is that an under lying cause is being missed. At 70,000 miles and if the bike is running constantly at max gross weight and at high speed, a couple of preemptive final drive seal and bearing changes wouldn't be totally out of line. I wouldn't be happy with two catastrophic failures.
How's the rear pad life? Any chance that there is a slight drag on the rear brake causing constant heat build up in the final drive?

Motard

I always thought that there was some issue with the final drives. I wondered if heat was the major factor with the LT. The guys on the LT site found some evidence of race damage which they suspected to be from improper installation of the large bearing. That could be a bit of info. BMW changed the design of the bearing, reducing the number of balls from 19 to 17. I'm not sure what that accomplishes and I wonder if that would be enough to solve whatever stress problem the bearing may have had. When you get a new drive, is it the same vintage as the one that just failed?
The fact that the new final drives have a big hole in them which helps with cooling is another bit of info. Also the light weight systhetic oil (Castrol SAF-XO, 75W90 synth extended drain oil) is another bit. Cools better than heavy weight? It could be that the old drive which went 200K miles in our airheads had just reached the limit of it's design capabilities.
I'm voting for light synth oil, properly installed big bearings (I don't think the number or size of the balls is a major factor...maybe bigger balls helps...), and properly preloaded as well. And, the fact that some of the drives go the distance and some of them fail even in the lighter weight bikes says something loud about quality control.
Oh and the rotors. Heat and crud gathering in the caliper the way it is positioned. Also, the floating design caused a lot of clanking that the owners didn't like...but they worked well just the same. Also the pads could wear out in just 10K miles. Could have been some neglect as to making sure the pads were within the wear limits.

[DarkCloud]

I always thought that there was some issue with the final drives. I wondered if heat was the major factor with the LT. The guys on the LT site found some evidence of race damage which they suspected to be from improper installation of the large bearing. That could be a bit of info. BMW changed the design of the bearing, reducing the number of balls from 19 to 17. I'm not sure what that accomplishes and I wonder if that would be enough to solve whatever stress problem the bearing may have had. When you get a new drive, is it the same vintage as the one that just failed?
The fact that the new final drives have a big hole in them which helps with cooling is another bit of info. Also the light weight systhetic oil (Castrol SAF-XO, 75W90 synth extended drain oil) is another bit. Cools better than heavy weight? It could be that the old drive which went 200K miles in our airheads had just reached the limit of it's design capabilities.
I'm voting for light synth oil, properly installed big bearings (I don't think the number or size of the balls is a major factor...maybe bigger balls helps...), and properly preloaded as well. And, the fact that some of the drives go the distance and some of them fail even in the lighter weight bikes says something loud about quality control.
Oh and the rotors. Heat and crud gathering in the caliper the way it is positioned. Also, the floating design caused a lot of clanking that the owners didn't like...but they worked well just the same. Also the pads could wear out in just 10K miles. Could have been some neglect as to making sure the pads were within the wear limits.

Doesn't the torque the K12LT engine produces and the laden weight of the bike put a lot of stress on the differential? Short brake life could also be attributed to stopping the beast.

[Hodag]

I'm getting tired of the $1k bill a year while hearing nothing ever goes wrong with these bikes.......
if only Honda made bikes as reliable as their cars

[RandyB]

...maybe bigger balls helps...

I think bigger balls would solve a lot of problems, but any further comment from me belongs in a political thread....

I've about decided to forgo a modern Beemer. I hear very little other than problems. Granted, no problems=no news, but even preventive maintenance costs are frightening. I swear I'm gonna get a Ural 'cause at least I can reach the parts....

I like that R1200RT I rented but I can't see several thousand $$$$ worth of improvement over some other bikes. But that adjust-on-the-fly windscreen IS pretty neat.

[cjack]

I think bigger balls would solve a lot of problems, but any further comment from me belongs in a political thread....

I've about decided to forgo a modern Beemer. I hear very little other than problems. Granted, no problems=no news, but even preventive maintenance costs are frightening. I swear I'm gonna get a Ural 'cause at least I can reach the parts....

I like that R1200RT I rented but I can't see several thousand $$$$ worth of improvement over some other bikes. But that adjust-on-the-fly windscreen IS pretty neat.

The new four cyl seems like the future. We have yet to see how it does, but the design seems to say ease of maintenance and repair. BTW, the new brake hoses are allowing BMW to recommend 2 years for partial bleeding of the brake system and 4 years for the total. By actual tests according to BMW.

[1flyer]

BTW, the new brake hoses are allowing BMW to recommend 2 years for partial bleeding of the brake system and 4 years for the total. By actual tests according to BMW.


Brake hose change allows 2 and 4 year hydraulic flush cycles? You got a BMW reference for that information?

[cjack]

Brake hose change allows 2 and 4 year hydraulic flush cycles? You got a BMW reference for that information?

My dealer got an SB which stated that. Ask your dealer. I forget what the new hoses are called...Stahlflex I think. Reduced water absorption, although it seems not obvious to me. But then I'm not a brake hose expert.
There is also a reduction in the requirement of bleeding the metering and integral circuits during the control circuit bleeding. Integral ABS control circuits are to be done every 4 years. The extra four ports are only to be done with a major rebuild, etc. Integral ABS wheel circuits every 2 years. The non ABS front and rear circuits every 2 years.I think BMW is working on the maintenance costs issues.

[Polarbear]

I get very good miles from pads, at over 35-40000 on rear ones and still have original front pads at 70000. I USE the front a lot more than rear brake. Would not think so, with these numbers but I do. My differential failures were;one out on a road trip, uhaul truck home and the other, the dealer caught during inspection in his shop. He redid it before total failure again! Good Beemer Shop, imo; Cycle Specialties, Modesto,CA. The rear rotors/brake system on the KLT's is PURE CRAP! No other way to say it. You can buy 3000$ new Hondas better built than this. The KLT is BMW's first and probably only Mega weight class cruiser and IMHO, they overloaded their design in the rear brake department, rear end dept., too, although many many RT's have had rear failures as well. Thanx for all the comments. Take 'em for what they're worth. I happen to think customers comments have a reputable place in a companies existance and when the companies stop listening, they're doomed to failure. Randy13233 :usa

[tourunigo]

I buy used.

Bought a 93 K1100LT last year. I had 63K miles. Russell Day Long Seat, aftermarket rear shock.

So far I have replaced a leaking front seal, new tires, new battery, oil, filters and gas.

Cost per mile is pretty low after I sell it.

However, I encourage everyone to buy new. How else were there be used bikes for me? :D :D

I'm with you. IMHO the last real tour bike that BMW made was the K1100LT. Bullet proof and a joy to ride. We also have a Russell saddle, an obvious plus, and Works shock. (ok...Uni-go also) Please tell me what more I need? And, in defense of our dear old /5, some older units provide far more independence than the dealer stoking new units. Just a thought. -Bob

[flash412]

...makes me wonder just how all of you, that are in my world of BMW, etc(other brands,too) make enough $mulah$ to keep riding!Shoot, that's EASY. I ride a carbureted F650. All you need is normal metric hand tools plus one $23 puller (that also works on many Japanese & European dirt bikes) to take it down into tiny pieces. The Mikuni carbs on this BMW-badged, Aprilia-made, Rotax-engine jewel are EASY to fix, and rarely need it.

[Polarbear]

I actually traded my F650,99 model for the KLT. WHAT a dummy! I really enjoyed the F650, too. It was the last of the GS's/off roaders I have owned and I'll probably be going back to them. In fairness to the KLT, I have ridden it on 3 large cross country trips and it performed quite well, except for the rear end failure, truck home! There it is, the "except" rule! Any bike you have to truck home, leaves lasting memories of the failure. Happy Trails, Randy13233/748 Chainganger without an F....

[Sirby]

I am a firm believer in the Extended Warranty when it comes to a used Beemer. I bought my 2000 R1150GS used from a dealer in 2003 with 2400 miles on it. This was a month before the factory warranty expired. I paid $990 for the warranty which included full ABS coverage, and extended parts and labor out to six years. In 2005 I had an electrical connector wiggle loose under the gas tank, causing runability problems, which somehow also caused the coil to fry. A $900 repair bill covered by Pinnacle Insurance. In May of this year, I had a failure of the ABS modulator pump, a $2300 repair bill covered by Pinnacle.( the new pump is smooooth when activated) A week ago on the last day of my extended warranty coverage, would you believe my rear drive bearing failed causing the seal to leak. I trailered it home to minimize the damage. The good folks at Pinnacle have agreed to cover this bill as well. A new bearing and seal with labor comes to what, $900? I don't know, it is still in the shop. I am considering selling the GS and buying the 2007 K1200GT, after a test ride last week. I will get the extended warranty before the factory warranty expires, and upgrade to a new model at the end of the six year ext. warranty. BMW could slap another thousand bucks onto the selling price and double the factory warranty, but apparently they let us decide this one for ourselves.

[flash412]

Try buying a roof from someone who does NOT offer a 30 year guarantee. Now trying finding a roofing company that has actually been in business for anywhere close to 30 years. Oh sure, the ROOFER has been in business since God made dirt. But he folds his tent every so often and reopens under a new shingle.

Companies that sell aftermarket extended warranties are like roofing companies. A company is formed. They sell warranties. Business is good. They take in a lot of premiums. Now and then, a claim comes in. They pay it. This generates good word of mouth advertising and more premiums come in. At some point more claims come in than there is cash on hand to cover them. (The cash has been taken out of the business by the principles.) At that point... POOF! The company is dissolved.

And then, a totally new and (legally) different aftermarket extended warranty company takes its place. Maybe the owners of the new one are the same as the old one. Maybe the old owners retired to an island somewhere and it is some other folks who form the new company, who recognize a legitimate scam when they see one. Really, there is no difference.

If you have actually collected on an aftermarket extended warranty claim, it was a very young company. And you were lucky.

Manfacturers' extended warranties are based on their knowledge of the likelihood of them making a profit based on what they know in advance (and by experience) about the design and reliability of the product they themselves manufacture. At the very least, the manufacturer will still be in business to deny your claim when you file one, unlike so many aftermarket claims.

The odds are that if a product suffers many failures, the warranty will be VERY expensive. But if the product is very reliable, the warranty will be cheap. One might want to ask about the PRICES of the manufacturers' extended warranties when comparison shopping between two models of motorcycle (or anything else). The one with the cheaper warranty will, no doubt, be the more reliable item. (This is true only after the model has been field tested for at least a year.)

[RTdavey]

I'm getting tired of the $1k bill a year while hearing nothing ever goes wrong with these bikes.......
if only Honda made bikes as reliable as their cars

Are you saying they can, but won't ???
Or are you saying, that even a great Co. like Honda, finds that stuffing all this technology into a small, itsy, bitsy package is difficult ???