BMW needs a retro bike

[MarkF]

I was on the Triumph website last night. That new Bonneville T100 looks great! It made me wonder...why doesn't BMW build a retro bike? With the popularity of everything retro a new R75/6 or R100R Classic would be big now. If Triumph can build a modern air cooled twin available for just $8,000 surely BMW could build a new airhead for roughly the same price. Like the new Bonnie it would be both retro and entry level. No ABS, no telelever, no fairing, just a good old fashioned naked bike.

MarkF

[kbasa]

Originally posted by oilhed
I was on the Triumph website last night. That new Bonneville T100 looks great! It made me wonder...why doesn't BMW build a retro bike? With the popularity of everything retro a new R75/6 or R100R Classic would be big now. If Triumph can build a modern air cooled twin available for just $8,000 surely BMW could build a new airhead for roughly the same price. Like the new Bonnie it would be both retro and entry level. No ABS, no telelever, no fairing, just a good old fashioned naked bike.

MarkF

Interesting. Tina has the 1150R, which seems a lot like a basic BMW of days gone by: naked, big twin, bags, standard seating position. Hers is non-ABS, so it's like a /6 that got a makeover.

I would, however, love to see something that harkened back to bikes like the /2s, though. Cool instrument cluster in the headlight, funky front end (not earles, thanks) cool seat, that sort of thing. I've always thought it would have been at least as interesting as the 12C, but would have more of a heritage feel than the Cruiser.

In black, of course. White pinstripes. And, if you think about it, the Cruiser bags look a lot like Wixoms.

[flash412]

why doesn't BMW build a retro bike? Probably because you could just go buy a fully restored /5 for about half of what BMW would want for a brand new retro bike.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by KBasa
In black, of course. White pinstripes. And, if you think about it, the Cruiser bags look a lot like Wixoms.

Yep, just like Hondas, Ducatis and Guzzis will always be red I think every BMW model should be available in classic black with hand painted pinstripes.

MarkF

[MarkF]

Originally posted by KBasa
Interesting. Tina has the 1150R, which seems a lot like a basic BMW of days gone by: naked, big twin, bags, standard seating position. Hers is non-ABS, so it's like a /6 that got a makeover.


My R1100RL (non-ABS) with Wudo fairing has a certain R100S look to it but it's no airhead. It needs a frame and dual rear shocks to look retro to me.

MarkF

[Paper]

I agree with you, Mark, to a point.
Since we both have the same bike, sans the fairing (mine has a National Cycle F15 shield) I love the looks of our bikes.. Problem is, I have quite a few riding buddies with /7's and we swap every once in a while.. I really look forward to my bike after riding an old airhead with bad suspension, spoongy brakes, and skinny tires..

There's a ton of old bikes I would like to own, but I own the one I want to ride.. :D

[dlearl476]

Originally posted by flash412
Probably because you could just go buy a fully restored /5 for about half of what BMW would want for a brand new retro bike.

Not to mention it wouldn't surge, stall, break drive lines, rear ends or alternator belts.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Paper
I agree with you, Mark, to a point.

There's a ton of old bikes I would like to own, but I own the one I want to ride.. :D

Agreed, I love my bike, if it was dual plugged I'd be in heaven. I had a R75/6, briefly, years ago. It was slow and the suspension and brakes were less than my Moto Guzzi had.

I think that using modern components those shortcomings could be overcome. If I had unlimited cash I would get someone like Vintage Rebuilds to do a ground up on an airhead with modern brakes and shocks. I've seen what they can do with a Norton!

MarkF

[PineGreen]

Hell, I thought thats what we are riding now!!!

[1969 R90/2 US]

I just finished my MBA 2 weeks ago and was able to get my final project group to agree to study BMW Motorrad USA. I am not suggesting that finishing my MBA makes anything that I am going to say necessarily correct. I am only noting that I have just spent a lot of time studying the Mother Company in regard to the North American motorcycle market.

Some industry estimates:

1) Motorcycle sales over the last 8 years are on the longest upswing since right after WWII.
2) There will be roughly 750,000 motorcycles of all types sold in North America in 2003.
3) Of the 750,000 sold, 50-55% will be "cruiser" bikes. This percentage is increasing.
4) Of the approximately 375,000 cruiser bikes sold in 2003, about 200,000 will be Harley-Davidsons.
5) BMW NA will sell about 13,000 bikes total in North America this year. They will likely sell between 100,000 and 110,000 bikes total worldwide this year. Their share of the cruiser market is estimated at 1 to 1-1/2%. Witness the fact that the R1200C has not been a financial success for BMW.
6) Cruiser sales are not limited to North America, but are far more pronounced here. Depending on the country, cruiser sales make up from 8-35% of motorcycle sales in Europe.

Now some opinions:

1) Since the cruiser market is the fastest growing and most lucrative segment of North American sales, BMW Motorcycle's growth is dependent upon investing resources toward this market.
2) With apologies to R1200C owners, this bike is not the answer to BMW's presumed interest in the cruiser market.

Other Key Observations:

1) A very large, but difficult to determine, majority of cruiser purchasers make their purchase for "lifestyle" reasons. Simply put -- they buy them to look cool or to pretend to be a bad ass on the weekends.
2) With few exceptions, these purchasers do NOT purchase BMWs. They purchase Harleys or, in limited numbers, a US pseudo-custom like a Victory or Indian. Most will not admit that they made their purchase for lifestyle reasons. They will, however, claim they bought the "best bike" or “right bike for them.”
3) BMW (like many German manufacturers) has a core belief that people will almost always buy technologically superior products. Their basic marketing philosophy is "We build the best...of course they will buy it." They do not understand the American cruiser "I am buying a lifestyle" mindset.

Conclusions:

1) BMW does not have the brand reputation necessary to enter the North American cruiser market in a profitable manner. The BMW name is so entrenched as an "upscale, yuppie" brand that BMW represents exactly the opposite of what most cruiser buyers want. The fear that a fellow “tough guy” biker will look down upon a BMW as “soft” or “upscale” is enough to disqualify BMW. Note that “upscale” in this context has nothing to do with relative cost.
2) It is not financially feasible to engineer, tool and produce a new model (retro cruiser or otherwise) to sell only 10,000 units or so worldwide, let alone the 2,000 or so they would sell here.

Here's the fun part:

The recommendation is that BMW partner (a la Aprilla) or buy outright a US pseudo-custom manufacturer such as Indian or Victory. BMW could then apply their technology and resources to a "Made in US" cruiser label with the correct brand reputation. Picture Victory bikes with a retro BMW style that incorporate the best in BMW technology sold as the new bad ass on the block. BMW fans would ride knowing the heart and soul of the bike was BMW. "Lifestyle" cruisers would ride knowing they got a cool looking bike made in the USA with a bad ass reputation.

Side note to BMW management...I would be glad to share the details of our analysis on a paid consultant basis ;)

[Cliffy777]

I believe bmw did build a retro bike. I bought one two years ago: The '01 R1100RL had the retro pinstripe, chrome spokes and was (relatively speaking) a naked bike.

I used to perceive beemers as too pricey. They are more expensive than the Hondas and Kaws I usta drive, but they sure give you more bang for the buck than Harleys. For the price of my high tech Rockster I could have afforded a new Sportster with teeny weeny fuel capacity, suspension that leaves a lot to be desired, no place for my honey to sit, but a really loud motor!

The remarks re: "Lifestyle" hit it on the head. One more wake up call for all the Johnnie-come-recently Harley buyers is their false perception than Harleys hold their value. It used to be so, but now there is a glut of them on the market. A buddy of mine took an ass-whipping on sellling his sportster so he could buy a '03 Road King with all the trimmings.

[1969 R90/2 US]

Here is my version of a retro bike.

One part 1961 R60/2 frame.
One part 1969 R60US forks.
One part 1974 R90 motor.

If I added disc brakes (w or w/o ABS), more forgiving shocks, a little more 12v juice for extras, and brighter lights, it would be perfect.

As long as perfect is defined as "what I like to ride."
:rolleyes

[MarkF]

Add those shocks and brakes, make it a 2004 model with 3 yr, 36,000 mi. warranty and I'll take one. Dealer financing would be nice, too.

MarkF

[BMWRider]

I sorta thought BMWs were already retro bikes. :yow

[Braddog]

I don't think they need a retro bike. They need to tow the line, maybe even lower prices on the R1150R series to get more new, younger, riders in the fold. This is not to day that they're not already a pretty good buy, because with the financing deals BMW has offered the last year, they've been pretty good.

I like the colors idea better. Offer a black paint job with the pinstripes across several model lines, even the K bikes. I think you can probably already get black on most models, but not with the pinstripes. That would be great.

[MarkF]

The retro thing started I think with Kawi, the ZRX and the WR. Of course who could do it better than Triumph with a Bonnie. Now they've gone one better with the Thruxton 900, a "out of the box" cafe racer.

Click here to check it out (http://www.triumph.co.uk/site/bikes/page.cfm?BikeID=82)

Now I read that Ducati has introed three retro bikes in Japan. Will they come to America? Who knows. A few years back both Yamaha and Suzuki had retro bikes that looked like the endurance racers of years gone past. They were popular in Japan but never came here.

Well, if they do here is my choice - The "do it all" Ducati GT1000!

MarkF

[jgr451]

Originally posted by oilhed
The retro thing

Well, if they do here is my choice - The "do it all" Ducati GT1000!

MarkF

Hey MM thanks fo rthe Triumph url,my first bike was a 70 Bonneville.I loaded the 2 screensavers from the site.
Nice Ducati too!!:clap

[knary]

Originally posted by BMWRider
I sorta thought BMWs were already retro bikes. :yow

:lol

[Spider]

Of course, you can always get a Ural. Best of 1930s technology!

[Random]

I like the idea of creating a modern toaster. It can be an oil head but I'd like styling that reminds me of the toasters of old.

[DarrylRi]

I already have a retro BMW, but if I had to have only one bike, it would be my R1150RS.
http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2003/hanford/chris/cwr002.jpg

[kbasa]

Originally posted by DarrylRi
I already have a retro BMW, but if I had to have only one bike, it would be my R1150RS.
http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2003/hanford/chris/cwr002.jpg

The /3? What a neato bike.

[MarkF]

If I had the cash, the space and a supportive spouse I would add two vintage bikes to the garage - R90S and R69S. If I could make it three I would like a BMW single, too.

MarkF

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by KBasa
The /3? What a neato bike.
Hey, Dave, come on down to the Cruz sometime and try it out. Or the /2. Or, heck, the R90S.

Yeah, the old bikes are cool. They really turn heads.

But don't tailgate! After you ride the /3, you'll think the /2 has fabulous brakes. And an incredible lean angle. You'll certainly know that things were different back before there were interstates.

"I'd much rather go fast on a slow bike than slow on a fast bike."

[kbasa]

I've seen you go fast on a fast bike. :dunno

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by KBasa
I've seen you go fast on a fast bike. :dunno
That must've been right before I crashed.

Anyway, drop in sometime and we'll go for a putt on the old bikes. Bring your better half, too. Besides, the twisty roads down here start right out my front door... there's a killer hairpin on my driveway. ;-)

[The_Veg]

The R100R was a pretty good attempt- a great Airhead engine, K75 fork with excellent brakes, and a Paralever out behind. They brought back the rounded valve covers just for this model too.

As far as BMW not being conscious of the 'lifestyle' thing I must disagree. Just look at how they've been treating dealers lately. Those who aren't willing to plunk a couple million into a big 'lifestyle boutique' showroom have been getting the axe (resulting in some regions being grossly underserved). And at the last bike show I went to, the apparel trailer seemed like the most prominent thing in BMW's corner. I think it's time BMW recruited a new director for Motorrad from outside the company, somebody who has a lifelong enthusiasm and knows how to make us all happy without throwing common sense out the window.

[Ktoo]

How many very cool Ducati GT1000's or Triumph Bonneville's does it take to get BMW Motorad to come out with their own version of a vintage looking "new" bike?
:lurk

[RandyB]

Of course, you can always get a Ural. Best of 1930s technology!

If they'd just build a GS....

[GlobalRider]

It made me wonder...why doesn't BMW build a retro bike?

I wish they would have before I bought my 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventures.

A nice early 90s style R100 GS Paris Dakar in white/red. :yum

[cruisin]

I was on the Triumph website last night. That new Bonneville T100 looks great! It made me wonder...why doesn't BMW build a retro bike? With the popularity of everything retro a new R75/6 or R100R Classic would be big now. If Triumph can build a modern air cooled twin available for just $8,000 surely BMW could build a new airhead for roughly the same price. Like the new Bonnie it would be both retro and entry level. No ABS, no telelever, no fairing, just a good old fashioned naked bike.

MarkF

I sorta feel like that is what the cruiser is/was and think it is probably the most fun riding bike I have ever owned. I also here tell from two close friends who have ridden the new R1200R naked bike, that it is amazingly nimble with gobs of power just about anywhere in the full RPM range. Too bad they seem to be trying to price themselves out of the range of middle-class America. Oh well I can wait for low mileage used ones at half price and still get a bike that will go another 200K. :brad

[BMWDEAN]

Just got this spy photo of the 2008 R1200RET:

[Stuff2C]

Here is my version of a retro bike.

One part 1961 R60/2 frame.
One part 1969 R60US forks.
One part 1974 R90 motor.

If I added disc brakes (w or w/o ABS), more forgiving shocks, a little more 12v juice for extras, and brighter lights, it would be perfect.

As long as perfect is defined as "what I like to ride."
:rolleyes


All you need are r1200 brakes :p

[Daver90s]

I was on the Triumph website last night. That new Bonneville T100 looks great! It made me wonder...why doesn't BMW build a retro bike? With the popularity of everything retro a new R75/6 or R100R Classic would be big now. If Triumph can build a modern air cooled twin available for just $8,000 surely BMW could build a new airhead for roughly the same price. Like the new Bonnie it would be both retro and entry level. No ABS, no telelever, no fairing, just a good old fashioned naked bike.

MarkF
Anyone who rides a 1970's era Airhead already has a "retro" bike - That's the cool thing about BMWs - They actually still run after 30+ years. - try to run a '72 Bonnie or Shovel head and see how far you get. When the other manufacturers are trying to jump on the retro (style) band wagon, BMW doesn't need to. -- People are always surprised to learn that my airhead is 32 years old. - what's old is new again.
HD kind of has the same idea - they just have not changed their design since the 1930's. - If they were smart, they'd make a Twin-Cam that looks like a Knuckle head.

[dlearl476]

I wish they would have before I bought my 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventures.

A nice early 90s style R100 GS Paris Dakar in white/red. :yum

Up until a few years ago, you could still buy a "Kalihari" in South Africa. It's on my christmas list, but apparently, Santa works North to South.


http://www.micapeak.com/bmw/gs/images/gskala.jpg

(btw, is this the web version of the ON's Twenty Years Ago this month?) :D

[DARRYL CAINEY]

With 2007 being the 30th anniversary of the R100RS lets put a challenge to BMW and ask them for a retro RS. Keep all the RS parts as they were but just uograde them with modern brakes, better suspension (2 shocks), it would be a sellout!
With 425,000 miles on mine I would buy one just so I could put mine into a retirement garage!


It would have to be like the old RS so you can still work on them.

BMW! Start listening to some of your loyalist fans!!

Darryl